Okay here is my response to this......
I am in no way bashin UG products whatsoever. I have thought many times of producing my own gear for sale , but have yet to do so. So please do not take this as a UG bashing thread.
The original purpose of this thread was to debate whether or not mex gear was as good as UG gear, and while I was going to side pretty much all with Mex gear I will take the time to point out why I feel in all actuality that both have thier good points and bad points. Lets start of with Mex gear.
For decades Mex gear has been the choice of 70% of all bodybuilders. Sure there will always be those who like thier " Euro " gear because they say its cleaner or human grade or whatever other label you want to put on it. And thats fine there is nothing wrong with Euro gear whatsoever except the price and trying to get it past customs, which in todays post 9-11 United States is harder than it used to be because customs has stepped up thier game. 70% of all bodybuilder here in the US use Mexican based gear, be it in oral form or injectable Mexican gear has been the staple of many professional and ameteur bodybuilders.
Lets look at the real label though. This " vet " gear label. So many people are quick to point this out without knowing why it is labeled Vet gear. If you go into any farmacia in Mexico, in any town either near the boarder or in the interior, you are going to find american based companies selling thier brands of gear. You have schering who sells primoteston, primotestion, and testovirion. Then you have organon that sells sostenon 250 preloads and deca durabolin preloads. On the other hand you have mexican pharmacutical comapnies such as atlantis that sell stenox and sten. Now all of these products are labeled " Human grade ". Why?? Because they come from reputable pharmacutical companies and are only used for resale in human use pharmacies. However the prices of these products are usually so high that it makes the normal bodybuilder resort to other means because financially he cannot afford an entire cycle with these products unless he was living lifestyles of the rich and famous.
So why do we have all of these supposed Vet grade companies out on the market?? Companies like brovel, tornel, leoffler, and intervet have been around for years producing what we have commonly come to know as "Vet Gear". Gear that was originally designed for use in animals but somehow is okay for use in humans. It got the reputation as a second grade hormone and that should be used only if other means are not available. I have heard stores that people have even thought they we growing dog parts in them by using this?? I know it sounds obsurd but I have heard this.
Lets set the recors straight.....Vet gear in mexico is labeled Vet gear for one reason and one reason only. Money. If you really want to come down to it comapnies like Sydgroup, Brovel, tornel, etc are all underground lab companies much like the ones that are popping up all over the net these days. Do you really think that denkall a company that makes some of the best mex gear out there has designed a 75mg anadrol tab for a dog. Or Quality Vet? Do you think quality vet has designed a 50mg primobolan tab so vets can prescribe them to sick cats and parakeets???
Lets me frank here folks, it only takes common sense. When was the last time you ever took your dog or cat to the vet and you vet said, " Your dog needs hormone replacement therapy. I am prescribing 400mgs of denkall test 400 per week" or "your cat has low test count. Give him one of these dianabol per day and he gets 2 refills on the bottle". I have never heard of this.
Now think about this. If this gear from these "vet comapnies " was really intended for animal use, why would they come out with all of these different testosterone esters. Does a cat really need cypionate over enanthate???? Does a dog need to use sustanon over prop??? Sydgroup has a deca cypionate. If you were a vet what good would deca cypionate have over the decanote ester??? Quicker release time?? In a cat or dog?? Please.
Everybody and thier brother by now should know that these vet companies have designed these injectables with one target audience in mind. You and me. The american bodybuilder. You can forget the bodybuilders in Mexico, they can't afford to eat 100g of proteina day much less use gear, so these companies know the amount of money that can be made from selling to american bodybuilders.
Now whay is it labeled vet gear and sold in vet shops ( graneros or veterinaria's ). Very simple. Most enterprising mexicans do not have the money to go the legal route with human labeling for thier gear. There is alot of red tape even in mexico that has to be done in order to get your product into a farmacia for sale. Alot of money that could be easier spent buying product and selling it. These comapies liek brovel and QV have thier own labs much like american companies. This part is true. And they do have safety regualtions they must adhere to although not as strict as human grade facilities, so this is the main reason that they are sold as bet gear. Just to get around all the BS red tape. Nothing more nothing less. It has nothing to do with the quality fo the product of its intended use.
Now lets look at the lab part. Yes each of these comapnies has a lab. Brovel makes a plethora of vitamins etc as does many of the others like loeffler, tornel. These 3 comapnies are actually the only LEGIT mexican grade vet gear out there. These 3 comapnies have to adhere to strict legit laws in mexico. Now do they always follow them? Probably not because mexico as we all know is mexico and doesn't always enforce the laws like they should. However companies like DENKALL,QV, SYDGROUOP, ANIMAL POWER, etc are all underground mexican labs. Plain and simple. They get by with the classification as veterinary companies but lets cut the bullshit here. Anybody in the know , knows denkall makes nothing but steroids, so do the rest. Thier sole purpose is to make and sell anabolic steroids in vet shops at a lower price to undercut farmacia and gain a stronghold on the gear industry in mexico. Since gear is legal there, so is thier business.
This is the reason we see new mex companies popping up every day. Becuase enterprising mexicans see the potential to make alot of money and set up thier own comapny to make gear and sell to vet shops so that american bodybuilders will buy and use and make them rich. This idea works and is why new companies like sydgroup and animal power are coming up.
Now lets look at the product itself. This supposed vet gear. Anybody with any ounce of intellegence knows that mexico our third world neighbor has no money or resources to actually produce its own hormones for steroids. Because of this where do these mexican companies go to get thier hormone. rAJJIN nailed it. CHINA!!! Yes thats right. For years bodybuilders have been using chinese based gear with mex label slapped on it. Brovel , tornel, ttokkyo, sydgroup, denkall, QV, they all get thier raw powder and bases from china. The import laws are alot less strict and they see they same profit as alot of these UG labs do. So if you really want to come down to it , you are using the exact same gear that alot of these under ground labs like red star of china, black label, blue diamond etc use. Same powder, same oil, bought from the same place.
So somebody please tell me since this is the same raw powder and oil that these supposed UG labs use which is " Human Grade " somehow gets turned into vet grade and is junk just by being sold in mexico?? If thats the case then either vet grade mex gear is actually human grade disgusied as vet to allow mex companies more leeway to make profit or all of these UG labs are vet grade and lying to you. Which is it???
Now lets come to sterility and dosing.....
Some people say mex gear is dirty. That they have found floating bugs and shit inside thier brovel t-200. Well you know how idiotic bodybuilders can be. Most bodybuilders are a bunch of lemmings and if one says its dirty they all say its dirty. Pretty sad but true. In all my years of using Mex gear I can honestly say I have never ONCE had anything floating in any of my gear. NOT ONCE!! And I have used every brand. So I really do not know where the floating shit came from. Maybe somebody did have dirt in theirs I don't know but lets get something straight. These companies reputations are on the line here. Brovel, tornel, they all know that american bodybuilders are picky and are not going to risk thier rep by allowing dirt in their product. Simple as that. Now I am not saying it has never happened because it might have but not to the proportionate level people have blown it up to be. Now are they dosed correctly? Well this has been a problem for mex companies for a while. ANd I have to agree that for a while mex companies were skimming a bit in order to increase profits. Anybody notice that when brovel and tronel were having legitimacy claims all of a sudden Denkall and QV popped up. Thier products were dosed correctly and brovel and company had to take notice and realize these other companies were taking thier business. So what did brovel and tornel do , they dosed thier products correctly and added more like anadrol and tronel added supertest. QV fell into this trap. For a while QV was the premier mex company. Brovel and the rest couldn't touch them. Then QV started getting lax with thier product and people started to complain. This is when Sydgroup popped up and took over and now all of a sudden withing the last 8 months QV has added oral tablets. This is the reason new mex companies like Sydgroup and animal power are popping up. Because they know if they can make a legit and clen product that continues to meet label claims they will have the strong hold on the mex gear market. Its a never ending revolving cycle.
To be honest it is in the best intrest of american bodybuilders to have this continually happen. Because as long as new mexican gear companies are popping up with new gear taht is dosed correctly or over dosed tehn this will force other mex companies to step up thier game and keep coming out with a good product in order to stay in business. The american bodybuilder wins all the way around because we have alot to choose from.
Now lets look at UG labs.
Since I am not a fan of these I will make this part shorter. UG labs are doing nothing that mesican companies haven't been doing for years. Buying raw grade powders from china and converting them for sale to the internet public. This is a growing trend that seems to have taken the internet bodybuilding world by storm. Anybody with a little cash, access to raw powders from china, and the BA, BB, and equipment can have thier own " lab". Now rajjin is correct you can make 200mg/10mL vial of EQ for around $15. Mex companies make it for even cheaper as the sell to vet shops for that price. ( TRUST ME I KNOW
) By doing this they can sell that same EQ for $65.00 to the internet bodybuilder, slap a label that look nice and make $50 profit. You do the math. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how much profit there is in that business.
The problem is this. Unlike the mex scene where a new company pops up every 2-3 years. A new UG lab pops up every day. The internet market has become so oversaturated with UG labs popping up that eventually nobody will be making a profit. There just aren't enough people to go around especially when it takes time to build a reputation. Now like I said, if you are well known and make a good product maybe the UG way is they way to go for you because there is alot of money to be made.
However only if you can get the powders on a consistent basis. Customs has thier eye on all of this. Constant supply is another downside to the UG lab. Usually the UG lab is one or to guys sitting at a kitchen table making EQ and Test and all these others they same way you make tren from tren pellets. Now granted usually nothing is wrong with this but if you want to talk about sterility, how can you be so sure the gear you just bought from this UG lab that was made in a kitchen ( and it was ) is anymore or less sterile than mex gear? You can't. You have to take that chance. How do you know it is dosed correctly?? Sure there are conversion articles out on the web that tell you exactly how to make a 200mg/10cc vial of test, but how can you be sure the UG lab followed it correctly, or its even EQ and not test? Your gonna say a lab report. Okay well thats fine, but anybody can get a lab report that say this is 200mgs and then start skimming it. As long as you have that one report from the first vial you made you can be putting test enanthate in there and claim it was EQ and if anybody said anything you always have that lab report to prove them wrong.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not bashing UG gear. I am merely stating both sides of the coin here. People hate on mex gear because they say its this or that but in all reality what they fail to realize is that its the identical product as the UG labs. ( yes maybe a bit more BA .) So alot of these arguements no longer hold water.
In my opinon I will always trust mex gear over a UG lab because at least in mexico I know thier reputation is going to assure me of a decent product that works. with a UG lab that pops up and then closes as fast I personally can never be sure of what I am getting.
But mex gear isn't made for dogs and cats. That is the one point we should all know by now.
Maverick
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