Was conditioning in the 90's better than todays?

[Dawgpound_Hank]

To be fair, isn’t this typically what we do with modern guys to when comparing them trying to prove that the past conditioning was better? No one’s ever comparing them to 5th place etc. it’s always Yates and the like.

Considering the topic of this thread I was merely pointing out you can't get a fair comparison of using the most conditioned guy (Hadi) of this era, who is also an Olympia winner, and pit him against a guy who was not the best representation of conditioning of the 90's. Lee was famous for being soft from the back - mainly glutes & hams. Also he never won an O - I think top placing was 5th IIRC? Also, other than Yates, the term "grainy" has only been used with a handful of others - Hadi being one of them.

 

[dantes]

It is tough at the end of the day to say who had better condition. In my opinion though it is very clear that guys in the 90s had better separation on average and definitely better mid sections. If guys truly are better conditioned today then why do they lack separation and definition? It is more than just scar tissue in the delts for example as this doesn’t explain smooth mid sections or quads etc…


In general as well guys in the 90s had a better “look”. Was this due to genetics (more genetic elite pursuing the sport) or is it due to drugs and a difference in judging. It is hard to say exactly what the difference is and I think it is likely a combination of things.

 

[danieltx]

If guys truly are better conditioned today then why do they lack separation and definition? It is more than just scar tissue in the delts for example as this doesn’t explain smooth mid sections or quads etc…

Read the other posts in this thread - guys today are leaner than guys in the 90s but lack the separation due to GH. And that's not from me, that's from Justin Harris and backed up by a lot of experienced guys on here.

 

[bbxtreme]

I don't think this is a fair comparison being Hadi is known as the barometer in this era when it comes to conditioning. He's the only guy you hear the term grainy used with nowadays. I'm guessing you used Priest being they are of similar heights, but IMO a more fair comparison would be of the guy who was the barometer of conditioning back in the 90's era, and that is Yates. Not to mention Lee was know for being softer from the back than many back then. Btw I watch that channel a lot - Marx does some awesome match-ups with humor added (that Arnold voice haha).

Lee Priest is the 90’s. He made every cover of every magazine. He also beat Ronnie. I think many guys confuse the 90’s with the 2000’s.

Either way guys today are much leaner and conditioned overall as we have just continued to push the envelope, use more drugs, have access to more drugs, etc.

Do guys today have the same level of detail compared to the 90’s and 2000’s… I don’t believe so as there’s far more insulin, oil and the lines on “most” (not all) just aren’t there.

But if the guys in the 90’s and 2000’s did the things guys are doing today I think it would be lights out. I’d argue there’s less genetic talent in this era as there once was.

On some level though it’s personal preference, but it’s also easy to look back and always think something was once better in the past. It’s human nature.

 

[Big A]

Read the other posts in this thread - guys today are leaner than guys in the 90s but lack the separation due to GH. And that's not from me, that's from Justin Harris and backed up by a lot of experienced guys on here.

Every single guy in the 90s, down to the local shows, was on HGH. Nobody that I knew was using less than 6iu/d. The belief in those days was that the body naturally releases 4iu/d, so obviously, if you wanted benefits, you had to use more per day, starting from 6iu.

My first show was in 1991 and my first pro show was 2001. The 90s is where I came through competing so I saw it all first hand, not conjecture.

 

[thethinker48]

Guys in the 90s also had some of the best genetics we've ever seen in this sport

A nationals stage in the 90s was like an Olympia line up of talent

 

[hawkmoon]

And I have the opposite view. By 1996, everybody that I knew was heavily using insulin, GH and DNP.

About conditioning - with very few exceptions (Hadi, etc), the open pros MIGHT have low bf percentages, but got fuck all separation and striations. u/212s though and Classique, they all have the same kind of quality in conditioning as the 90's guys.

To be fair we are probably leaning in different directions as far as the 90s.

IMO things really started to change at a wider level in the mid-90s as you report.

Late 80s to mid 90s, before Yates became runaway dominant in 93 things were different.

Yates forced others to find more tools and use those tools more decisively.

 

[kadafi2]

Every single guy in the 90s, down to the local shows, was on HGH. Nobody that I knew was using less than 6iu/d. The belief in those days was that the body naturally releases 4iu/d, so obviously, if you wanted benefits, you had to use more per day, starting from 6iu.

My first show was in 1991 and my first pro show was 2001. The 90s is where I came through competing so I saw it all first hand, not conjecture.

But isn't it all about doses? Did ifbb pro use 20-30iu back then? You write that a minimum of 6 IU was used, and how much was the maximum? The higher the dose, the greater the water retention. And what is important, large amounts of diuretics were used back then, which was mentioned here by a few people. Today, fortunately, this trend has decreased significantly.

 

[dantes]

Read the other posts in this thread - guys today are leaner than guys in the 90s but lack the separation due to GH. And that's not from me, that's from Justin Harris and backed up by a lot of experienced guys on here.

Big A himself said all the top and even local guys back then were using GH. I suppose you mean they are running it into the show or at a higher dose now?
Regarding Justin Harris he is smarter than me and I have loads of respect for him but not really sure what makes him an authority as he was not competing or coaching during that era.

 

[kadafi2]

I will just add this - it seems to me that insulin has a greater impact on the smoother appearance of the muscles than even high doses of GH. These measures are synergistic, but IMO - insulin gives size at the expense of quality.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

But isn't it all about doses? Did ifbb pro use 20-30iu back then? You write that a minimum of 6 IU was used, and how much was the maximum? The higher the dose, the greater the water retention.

this is absolutely not true. Even if it were, the body acclimates.

Not to mention the fact that it’s a cosmetic factor not a conditioning factor.

And to further belabor the point, you pull the GH and any water goes with it so it’s a non issue

 

[luki7788]

I will just add this - it seems to me that insulin has a greater impact on the smoother appearance of the muscles than even high doses of GH. These measures are synergistic, but IMO - insulin gives size at the expense of quality.

Say it for Roman Fritz lol

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Say it for Roman Fritz lol

I really love seeing the same bs lines parroted over and over

“iNsUlIn WrEcKs PhYsIqUeS”

 

[kadafi2]

this is absolutely not true. Even if it were, the body acclimates.

Not to mention the fact that it’s a cosmetic factor not a conditioning factor.

And to further belabor the point, you pull the GH and any water goes with it so it’s a non issue

Ok, just about the last sentence: if you stop taking gh, you will lose some size. Something for something.

Say it for Roman Fritz lol

I don't know Roman's dosages, but there is a big difference between using and overusing insulin. I don't think he abuses it.

 

[b-boy]

heres my take
in the 90s less gh and slin usage so thins like delt tie in and abs were cleaner and lower back
but you rarely saw glute lines except gaspari.
Look back at wheeler levrone and priest amazing bbers but they never had tight glutes, they were boxed in but not shredded dry
just my opinion. take away gh usage making skin thicker and those who keep it in for fullness and i thin today overall would blow that era away

Bumping this response once again as it's my exact thoughts also and my opinion.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Ok, just about the last sentence: if you stop taking gh, you will lose some size. Something for something.



I don't know Roman's dosages, but there is a big difference between using and overusing insulin. I don't think he abuses it.

Looks like you got it figured out

 

[luki7788]

Ok, just about the last sentence: if you stop taking gh, you will lose some size. Something for something.



I don't know Roman's dosages, but there is a big difference between using and overusing insulin. I don't think he abuses it.

So you know to little

 

[bbxtreme]

But isn't it all about doses? Did ifbb pro use 20-30iu back then? You write that a minimum of 6 IU was used, and how much was the maximum? The higher the dose, the greater the water retention. And what is important, large amounts of diuretics were used back then, which was mentioned here by a few people. Today, fortunately, this trend has decreased significantly.

Bolded: I see people say this and I just LOL.

Diuretics are used just as much today if not more than they were back then. What has changed is HOW they are used in comparison back then.

 

[aHarness]

I don't think he abuses it.

He absolutely is abusing it lol

He’s very open about it

 

[madg]

@kadafi2 100 iu lantus + 2 x 20 iu log not abuse ?