I once tried GH at 4 ius a day ..........and it killed me . Wrist / elbow pain .....shoulders ached as well as my back .......I suffered injuries to my chest and biceps and said fuck it ........How can some of these fools take 12- 18 ius a day ? No wonder guys tear muscles and get hooked on pain killers / nubain .....I am pretty tough , but I was misserable within 3-4 days on the stuff ......To me it wasn't worth it ......if you can't train and enjoy yourself , then what is the point ? I value my health too much , that is why I had stayed away from gear for over 8 years ......Now that I am planning a return to stage that will unfortunately have to change ......but believe me , I won't be doing anything compared to most and nothing like I ran in the past .Bodybuilding should be healthy and fun ....... and I know it is far from being that way ...... But If you are making yourself miserable in order to win a trophy or just to be a big monster , then maybe it is time to reavaluate things .....I care about my iron brothers , not trying to preach , but hopefully some will get my message . Challange yourselfs , have fun , make friends , and let your genetics determine what happens . Don't end up a felon like me , or having health issues like so many just trying to be hardcore .....hardcore is the training and diet... not the drugs .....Will I try Gh again ? Not until I know of a healthy way of dealing with the sides .....then maybe at a lower dose ....if I don't ....oh well ,I like the look of the old guys better anyway ......I have been around and know many at the top of the sport ......most use GH every day at 4ius plus .....most top guys are using 8- 12 ius .....and that is a fact [ Ask BigA] insulin seems to be going out of style with everyone but Jay , Ronnie , and Markus [those cats are true monsters ,but sadly they will have probs down the line[and have all but ruined thier waistlines ] mark my words].....most others are staying away from it .....a few still like it off season , but it ruined alot of great physiques .....think before you act fellas ! If something doesn't feel right ,then don't tough it out ........I leave this thread with a question .......Do you think most top pros have a normal enjoyable sex life ? Do you ? Think about it ?[ what is the point of looking so great then ....if you can't enjoy the benifits ]