Who SHOULD compete at the National Level? Thread idea stolen from MD.

[Dusty Hanshaw]

I read the title of this thread on another board and i thought it was a great question that could bring out a lot of views. What do you think? How does one know when they are ready for the next level? I for one think that there is a lot more to it than just being qualified. Far to many guys and girls end up at the USA's or Nationals just to learn that they are WAY out of their league.

Chris Cook told me about his first National bodybuilding show and it was classic. As usual he was running late so when he got to the venue the weigh ins had already started. After seeing the guys in line he freaked because he was a heavy and he thought he had missed his class weigh-in. He walked up to the closest athlete and said "When did the heavies go?" The guy looked at Chris and said "It will be a bit for the heavies, we are all middles and you still have to wait for the LHW's to weigh in." It was at that point that Chris realized that he was WAY out of his league and had paid a few thousand dollars to get his ass kicked.

Crazy to think that a guy who won the SHW class three times in a row had that experience driving him.

Dusty

 

[Dangkolo]

Great thread! I know for myself it will be awhile before I ever step on a National stage. If I were to go I would at least want to make the top 10. The reality is I have a long ways to go before I attempt to weigh in with the big boyz. I also think alot of people fool themselves into going......

 

[AWN2004]

This is going to be a good one.

Who should compete? That's a tough question. I suppose it should almost be about why you are competing. I mean that in the most constructive way possible. If for just the love of the sport you want to grace the national stage because you are qualified and just have fun for the experience, go for it. However, it never really seems to end up that way. You get guys that take 2nd at their state show or place 1st out of 3 and then they feel they are ready to take it to the "next level". I almost feel they need steps to qualify (1st at your states followed by a top 2 at a large regional qualifier). This would greatly reduce some people's revenue so you know that's never going to happen.

-You have guys in small towns that have everyone telling them they should do a national show when the people telling them this have NO idea what that means to get on a stage like that.

-You have guys taking more shit than God knows and they barely squeek out a 2nd place and then think they are ready to hit the national stage.

But then you have these guys.........

Jason Huh, Neil Champagne, Fred Smalls, Brandon Ray, Shivas Higa, Chad LaCount, Robert Burnika, Al Augste ect ect

All of those guys wouldn't have a problem re-qualifing if they had to. It would almost as easy as picking which show they want to win to do so.

Now take these guys.........

Manny Torres, Darrel Terrel, Fernando Abaco, Mark Erpelding, ect ect.

How long have those guys been in the top 5 or 10 at a national level show? These guys are great bodybuilders but can't seem to make the jump to pro status and even if they did how would they compete after that? Now with that being said, can you beat any of the mentioned guys? What are your goals compared to those guys?


I guess what I'm saying is that in all reality making the leap to the national level is no joke. It's not about coming in shredded. Everyone is at that level. It's not about having good legs or whatever. Everyone does at level. You see what I'm getting at? What sets you apart from all the other state, regional, and in some cases national level (USA, NA, Team U) champions coming back to try to turn pro because they didn't quite make it last time? If you're not winning stuff easily, you might want to reconsider.

One last thing as well....

I'm going to use a very good friend of mine as a prime example. People on this board that know who Gooey is will know what I'm talking about. The dude is freaky in person. He packs a shit ton of muscle and gets in very good shape. He's able to win multiple overalls in more than one state and then goes to the Nationals and then misses the top 15? It's just rough. If you've seen him in person you know what I'm talking about...freaky. I consider him to have pro potential and he is the type of person that belongs on a national stage.

Do what you want, but don't under estimate how hard this sport is at that level. It's an eye opener.

 

[Thewhite9t]

I'm going to use a very good friend of mine as a prime example. People on this board that know who Gooey is will know what I'm talking about. The dude is freaky in person. He packs a shit ton of muscle and gets in very good shape. He's able to win multiple overalls in more than one state and then goes to the Nationals and then misses the top 15? It's just rough. If you've seen him in person you know what I'm talking about...freaky. I consider him to have pro potential and he is the type of person that belongs on a national stage.

I'm just curious... how much of that is politics?

 

[Mr.G]

Crying politics is a excuse, if it can go either way then you need to do better. I will say I was a victim of the USA stage in 05, should not have been there. I think like said above, it depends on your goals for the show & where your head will be after. I wasn't under the allusion of turning Pro, I just wanted to see how I compared. Rack it up as a learning experience...there are some short thick mofo's....

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I dont post on here much, but i have to answer this one.

I honestly think alot of people hit national level shows who do not belong there. One reason i have not is i simply have not hit my conditioning once and i have not proven to myself that i can actually do it. If you are not shreaded, dont bother showing up.

You need to really be honest with yourself and have others who will be honest with you. Few questions to pose.....

- have you won a BIG regional show with national level competitors, or at least stood next to national level bodybuilders on stage and truly believe you held your own? I can think of many who have won the overall at crappy shows, then believe they are ready for Nationals.... I could have walked on stage at many lower level shows and won...but i always believed in this as iv been told since i was little ...."id rather be beat by the best than be king of the losers"....

- have you spoken with more experienced officials and judges who have seen you IN PERSON on stage who believe you could hold your own at a national show? Many times pictures mean dick. Its a whole nother story in person. You dont need "yes men". You need someone who can look at you after they have watched you go through a prejudging and can honestly give you a true assessment who has been to national shows (or better yet judged them) and gives you the green light.

- Is it financially feasible for you? Its not cheap. Room, flight, drugs, food. A national level show is going to cost you thousands. Is it worth it?

 

[AWN2004]

I'm just curious... how much of that is politics?

Well look at it this way............

Take several national level/IFBB judges and sit them in chairs and then have them stare at physique after physique for hours and hours. It gets very tiring which is why they switch them for the classes and then announce who is judging each class so you KNOW exactly who was supposed to be looking at you. If you don't have an AMAZING physique for a first time national level competitor, chances are you might just get passed by. That's what this is about anyway really. You have to shine at that level or else you just get lost in translation. Take Jason Huh for example. He wins the Southern States and was a teen national overall champion and then gets dusted at the Nationals. Takes some time off and then comes back and starts placing in the top 5. During that time he got some exposure and made some very good improvements, not to mention did the smart thing and did a slightly less competitive national level show and got noticed. "You have to be seen to be seen"...in other words, the more the judges know you're out there, the more likely they are able to notice and watch for you on stage. Like I said at that level EVERYONE is top notch so to stand out you have to look like a Phil Heath or Fakhri Mubarak when they won their cards or be seen by enough of the right people for them to take notice. With that said, you also need a physique to back it up. Call it politics if you want, but when the competition is that tough, you have to distance yourself one way or another.

 

[Stylz]

Great post AWN................I agree with all of your points.

For some guys just being able to compete on a National is a goal within in itself, but to come back year after year placing out of the top 15 makes no sense financially nor is it self rewarding.

I especially agree that having to place top 3 in a top tier (Jr. National/ Jr. USA/ Atlantic States) should be a requirment to keep these contests from getting overwhelmed with subpar physiques.

Who Should Compete in Pro Shows?

75% aren't competitive (Specifically smaller shows)

You can ask the same question to pros........why do some pro's (most) continue to compete knowing there's no chance of winning or financial reward?

 

[njpooldude]

I think our very own mike1107 should compete... would love to see it man

 

[tkav1980]

you wouldnt take an all-star highschool quarterback and even put him in a pre season nfl game. Same Idea. People that compete on a national level should be competitive at that level. and its the same as guys getting into the nfl. they proved themselvs in highshool, then again in college then had to make it through preseason to make the roster.

 

[craig3758]

All great post,but I'm going to compete this year and have never done a national level show.You have to go in there thinking hey they got to compete against you as well.If I get my ass handed to me then so be it.At least I'll know where I'm at in this point of my life and give me a great experience.I will go in there in the best shape of my life and give Brandon,Chulsey and co. a fight they won't forget.I for one will just come back more determined if I get creamed,but I plan on getting noticed

 

[Alex A]

Hopefully i can chime in respectfully here..

I feel that the national level( pro qualifiers) are a whole different ball game entirely..

The show is full of overall and class winners, some who have won regional shows many times. . thats who composes the show.

From my own experience let me elaborate.

I started off in the smaller California npc shows, even Venice beach a few times, then worked up to the Junior cal, The Cal State Championships, Orange county, Excalibur and LA a few times.

I would not have touched the USA if i had not been successful in winning my weight class several times at the local shows..

Personally i think it might be a bit pre mature to jump into a pro qualifying show after one or two local wins just because your qualified.

I know there are the few selected champs that did one regional show, took the overall and crushed the field at the nationals.. but most dont. thats a fact.

I look at it as.. if your not winning or placing very high every time every time you step on stage at your local show then stepping up to a pro qualifier is going to be really tough and an eye operner like it has been for so many..

And there are many good guys i have met at these shows that dont do more than quarter turns then get sent home.

Personally, I ended up doing the USA twice, placing 6th and 1st.. I cant do anymore there. Its a great show, i admit and i would have done the show until i won a class there..

The NPC Nationals is an extremely tough show for the lighter weight guys...
Pro cards at stake in all the weight classes.. this is the real deal..

In most weight class's there is a cut at top 15.. and some good guys left out too.

This will be my 3rd year in a row competing at the Nationals. and i would not even do the show if i didnt make the top 10 each year.. getting in the second callout is not my goal but has given me hope to bring my best and i can move up. And the best, i know i have not brought. yet..

I had my worst placing last year and i still placed ahead of 19 guys in my class so i feel i have a chance..

I do know that there will be 30 or more guys in my weight class as usual..

And the only prediction i can make is...

" I will work very hard to be my best and hope i can bring my best to the stage that day" . that's all i can do..

To me, this is unfinished business.. I want to nail it and move on.. although my life doesnt change much if i win or lose. Im in it to win it.
Peace to all !

 

[tenny]

I dont post on here much, but i have to answer this one.

I honestly think alot of people hit national level shows who do not belong there. One reason i have not is i simply have not hit my conditioning once and i have not proven to myself that i can actually do it. If you are not shreaded, dont bother showing up.

You need to really be honest with yourself and have others who will be honest with you. Few questions to pose.....

- have you won a BIG regional show with national level competitors, or at least stood next to national level bodybuilders on stage and truly believe you held your own? I can think of many who have won the overall at crappy shows, then believe they are ready for Nationals.... I could have walked on stage at many lower level shows and won...but i always believed in this as iv been told since i was little ...."id rather be beat by the best than be king of the losers"....

- have you spoken with more experienced officials and judges who have seen you IN PERSON on stage who believe you could hold your own at a national show? Many times pictures mean dick. Its a whole nother story in person. You dont need "yes men". You need someone who can look at you after they have watched you go through a prejudging and can honestly give you a true assessment who has been to national shows (or better yet judged them) and gives you the green light.

- Is it financially feasible for you? Its not cheap. Room, flight, drugs, food. A national level show is going to cost you thousands. Is it worth it?

just being shredded aint gonna do it either

alot more factors envolved

 

[b-boy]

All great post,but I'm going to compete this year and have never done a national level show.You have to go in there thinking hey they got to compete against you as well.If I get my ass handed to me then so be it.At least I'll know where I'm at in this point of my life and give me a great experience.I will go in there in the best shape of my life and give Brandon,Chulsey and co. a fight they won't forget.I for one will just come back more determined if I get creamed,but I plan on getting noticed

have you done jr. nationals?? or jr. USA's? how did you do? what shows have you done?? i only ask this cause im not familiar with you, so i just want to get an idea what you have done competition wise thats all.

 

[chris250]

I'll tell you guys why I compete at the National level...The reason I compete, is becasue one simple reason...Because I want to !!! Its simple as that...Yeah, im out there to win, hell we all are..But I know the chances are about as slim as winning the lotto...Maybe, Im not good enough, maybe im not big enough, maybe my muscle bellies arent round enough, maybe I cant get lean enough...But hell, thats alot of maybe's...If I dont at least try to compete there, then there isnt really much else for me to compete at, unless I want to become a trophy hunter and win regional level, and state level shows for the next 5 years...I also, dont want to look back 15-20 years from now and say to myself why, didnt I compete at the National level...just because a few guys said Im not good enough ??? Nah, im not going to let that be my reason for not competing at the National level...

chris

 

[b-boy]

I'll tell you guys why I compete at the National level...The reason I compete, is becasue one simple reason...Because I want to !!! Its simple as that...Yeah, im out there to win, hell we all are..But I know the chances are about as slim as winning the lotto...Maybe, Im not good enough, maybe im not big enough, maybe my muscle bellies arent round enough, maybe I cant get lean enough...But hell, thats alot of maybe's...If I dont at least try to compete there, then there isnt really much else for me to compete at, unless I want to become a trophy hunter and win regional level, and state level shows for the next 5 years...I also, dont want to look back 15-20 years from now and say to myself why, didnt I compete at the National level...just because a few guys said Im not good enough ??? Nah, im not going to let that be my reason for not competing at the National level...

chris

chris i don't remember? have you done jr. nationals? if so how did you do?

 

[b-boy]

just being shredded aint gonna do it either

alot more factors envolved

I so agree tenny! I don't know why people keep saying just show up shredded and you will do good??? yea right. hell I for one have never been shredded in my life.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I agree

I so agree tenny! I don't know why people keep saying just show up shredded and you will do good??? yea right. hell I for one have never been shredded in my life.

I was NEVER shredded either.......if you gotta get BONE DRY SHREDDED just to place or be " noticed" .....god bless you because I cant be that dedicated. To me this sport is about MUSCLE ,SHAPE........not how shredded can we get.......that is not what I signed up for.........not a diet contest

 

[Alex A]

I'll tell you guys why I compete at the National level...The reason I compete, is becasue one simple reason...Because I want to !!! Its simple as that...Yeah, im out there to win, hell we all are..But I know the chances are about as slim as winning the lotto...Maybe, Im not good enough, maybe im not big enough, maybe my muscle bellies arent round enough, maybe I cant get lean enough...But hell, thats alot of maybe's...If I dont at least try to compete there, then there isnt really much else for me to compete at, unless I want to become a trophy hunter and win regional level, and state level shows for the next 5 years...I also, dont want to look back 15-20 years from now and say to myself why, didnt I compete at the National level...just because a few guys said Im not good enough ??? Nah, im not going to let that be my reason for not competing at the National level...

chris

Chris, i hear you..

What was your qualifying show?

 

[Mr.G]

Alex what are your plans after you turn Pro?