Why do we make building muscle so complicated?

[samgraves82]

It's basic really isn't it.

Lift heavy weights often. People have always done this.
eat a lot of good food. People have always done this.
take drugs. We have seen hgh and slin added in recent years.
recover well. People have always done this.

Grow.

guys in 1980's at top level 20lb smaller than now on average... Because of drugs solely. HGH and slin the reasons, why do people hide this and make people believe it's something else? Nutrition is just that.. Meat, fish, carbs etc. Creatine is creatine, supplements on the whole do little anyway. Any fucker can lift weights, that's never changed, there isn't some special method today adding lbs and lbs of muscle that didn't exist thirty years ago lol. It's all drugs that have made the changes.

I think people eat a lot more today as well per Dexter Jackson. Is that an effect of the higher drug use ie insulin that u mentioned? Id say, probably

 

[w8tlifterty]

Bc 97% of us arent made for it (ie genetically gifted) but are forever grasping at straws bc we were bit by the iron bug. Human nature... we want most what we cant have.

 

[Ds3317]

I think a lot of it has to do with the whole “evidence based” movement. We have a whole generation using “science based” training, supplementation, and nutrition who don’t even know how to read a study. They tend to forget that the only evidence that matters is what works in the gym. I always recommend people read and reread everything by Dante, John Meadows, Scott Stevenson, Skip Hill, Phil Hernon, Jordan Peters, and Dorian Yates. These guys all have proven track records and have walked the walk.
I place a lot of blame on the stronger by science guys.

 

[buck]

I like science based research better then bro science or dogma. Science does not really prove anything regarding people usually. It points towards what is most likely within the guidlines of the study. Which is a better approach then doing what the big guy does in my book.

 

[Vision]

The guys who are set in their ways that know what works even without knowing the science to back it up are most likely the ones making th best progress, because they are to busy eating,sleeping and lifting, these are the ones that have less stress and less set-backs because they are sticking to a simple basic formula..
When people get all hung up that's because they want to believe in something much greater because they are making up for something, somethings missing, something they just can't figure out so they spend massive amounts of time,money and energy looking for it.. when it was the most basic and simplest formula that was before their very own eyes the entire time. It's consistency.
People get caught up on something and than they hear something that conflicts with it and this happens every time they turn around, all of these theories and viewpoints get people lost and twisted.

Guys are to quick to change things up thinking that this approach is best because there is some science to it all that sounds magical when on paper or explained by someones gift with wording..

I'm a huge John Meadows fan, he not flashy, he's laid back and just simple as fuck. He basically stresses that the pinnacle of your success whether beginner or a seasoned vet, is reinvest into your stance with nutrition and the very importance of it.

People truly can't afford to under value good, real nutrition.. It's that simple, eat and if your taking drugs, eat more, lots more. Everything will fall into place if you stay consistent with this!

 

[nihilixm]

I like science based research better then bro science or dogma. Science does not really prove anything regarding people usually. It points towards what is most likely within the guidlines of the study. Which is a better approach then doing what the big guy does in my book.

End of the day i like what gets results since that's the goal. I used to be on the misc and act all scientific and shit, but pragmatic is better than scientific imo because gains not experimenting on yourself is the end goal lol.

 

[qbkilla]

we make it complicated because we believe those who tell us they can help us reach our goals better and faster, and we pay them. then they say "how can I complicate it even more and make a profit"

LOL

 

[beverast]

It's because of all the different interpretations of "lift intensely, eat appropriately" swirling around. On the internet you have a million different opinions on what constitutes what, and on top of that you have a bunch of people trying to peddle their own secret methods and programs - there's no money in telling people to lift with high intensity and eat a sensible diet. If you scroll through the pertinent websites or ads on social media, of course if everybody and their mom tell you that they have unlocked the secrets (and, hey, they're ripped!) you will start wondering if maybe there's something beyond "lift and eat". It's human nature.

Truth is, most people's intensity and diet sucks (I'm not excluding myself here, I could've done a lot better a lot of the time), so obviously they hit brick walls in terms of progress and then start wondering if there isn't some arcane knowledge that they could just buy for the low price of $29,99 a month. People don't want simple answer, they want easy fixes.
I've had a number of guys come up to me at the gym, asking me what I did for my pecs or shoulders or my diet because my body changed, theirs didn't. I actually took the time to explain to them that there's nothing to it, other than adherence to good practice. Most of them will be like "well, okay, thanks, I'll think about it", then continue to bench 135 for 3 sets of 8 M W F, as they have been doing for the past 10 years, wondering why their hard work isn't paying off.

Then you have the "perfectionist", the guy who will read every last article on a given topic, without ever applying any of his knowledge.

 

[bigdog123]

we make it complicated because we believe those who tell us they can help us reach our goals better and faster, and we pay them. then they say "how can I complicate it even more and make a profit"

LOL

this is bang on. Like every industry, how can I overcomplocate this to make myself more money. Plus people wanting something for nothing, lazy cunts.

 

[thethinker48]

It's easy...but it's complicated when it doesn't work as fast as you want it to.
Thats the story. Shit works then it doesn't. You make a size jump, then you dont.
Everyone wants it but people hate slow things and building your body is a slow thing.
The best bodybuilders are usually the ones who just love training the most....they can just sit back and enjoy the training for 6 months and boom, they look very different.

That training statement is so true.

A LOT of guys that do this don't actually like training, they just like the look, and the attention. Without social media, most these guys wouldn't even be in gyms.

 

[buck]

End of the day i like what gets results since that's the goal. I used to be on the misc and act all scientific and shit, but pragmatic is better than scientific imo because gains not experimenting on yourself is the end goal lol.

So how do you decide what works best or most optimal without experimenting on yourself and trying a wide range of things. Or finding what has worked best for others which is the basis of scientific studies.

 

[maldorf]

Another factor that comes into play is as you age, your approach has to alter otherwise youll end up in trouble. Training and diet must change. The drug side I don't know about because I have stopped using them, but most of what we hear is that doses need to go down as well. I don't think anybody ever reaches a point where they feel that they have reached the optimum plan and just keep doing that for years and years. The body keeps changing and/or adapting. As you age, you do learn your body and know what works for you and what doesn't, so you don't end up wasting time like you did when you were younger and still experimenting.

 

[beverast]

Another thing to consider:

As far as training methods go, you have two especially problematic mindsets:

One side is the need for instant gratification, i.e. people will try something new for 2 weeks, not see the results they want, and immediately switch to the next best thing, just to repeat the same cycle over and over again, never giving anything enough time to work. For most people, especially naturals, building a decent physique is a painfully slow progress. Fact is, past a certain point (absolute noob gains or something like switching from super low volume to high volume with a fresh bout of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy) any new method will take some time to produce results. Those are the guys who will say "I've tried everything! Nothing works for me! There must be something else!"

The polar opposite is the guy who acts does something that clearly doesn't work for him, but because he's been doing it for so long, he absolutely refuses the idea to change anything, because he thinks that after all this time it's JUST ABOUT TO PAY OFF.

Both are equally bad. When you change something about your training or diet, give it time to work, but at the same time stay critical and somewhat objective (which is sometimes hard when looking at oneself) and discard the things that evidently don't work for you.

 

[sdvinny]

we make it complicated because we believe those who tell us they can help us reach our goals better and faster, and we pay them. then they say "how can I complicate it even more and make a profit"

LOL

lmao true

 

[tkav1980]

I dont think this is any different than any other sport. Sure the top .5% need to get really technical, detailed and maybe even complicated but most never need to. Take any person, have them lift consistently as heavy as they can safely do so for 20 straight years, add a few more calories than they actually need and you'll have a pretty impressive person.
I mean if you want to win competitions and hop in the ring with the best in the world, that takes a few extra tricks, but really, for the average person that's all it takes. Take any guy on this forum, put them in an MMA gym and while they probably wont turn pro, after 10 years of training consistently, they'll mop the floor with just about anyone they run into on the street. I remember 12 or 13 years ago on this board everyone was screaming the same thing, consistency consistency consistency. Eat more food and do your best to get stronger. The complicated stuff was left for the A) real freaks trying to eek out 6 more lbs of muscle or b) people going into contests at a high level.

Now add a few hundred MG of test and some more food and you have what the average person would consider a pretty freaky dude.

 

[brutus69]

I think a lot of it has to do with the whole “evidence based” movement. We have a whole generation using “science based” training, supplementation, and nutrition who don’t even know how to read a study. They tend to forget that the only evidence that matters is what works in the gym. I always recommend people read and reread everything by Dante, John Meadows, Scott Stevenson, Skip Hill, Phil Hernon, Jordan Peters, and Dorian Yates. These guys all have proven track records and have walked the walk.
I place a lot of blame on the stronger by science guys.

in other words, u take what massive steroid abusers say over what biology tells us.

 

[beverast]

Steroids make a lot of things work that would never yield any results for a natural. I mean there's at least one study where people on a supraphysiological dose of testosterone gained more lbm without exercise over a couple of weeks than an unsupplemented control group with training. Anabolics build muscle without working out (to a degree) and will amplify the effect of any training, no matter how dumb it is. Generally speaking I think when giving advice to naturals, sometimes people on juice would rather not give them advice than telling them to do something that only works if you're on the sauce.

I'm all for the evidence based approach, as long as there is good science available for a given question - two things to keep in mind:

1. It does sometimes happen that the "bros" figure something out that works for bodybuilding long before the sports scientists catch on. An example that comes to mind is intermittent fasting. I remember when I started it some 10 years back and everybody was like "it's so unhealthy, you're gonna lose all muscle, that's not sustainable" yadda yadda, couple of years later it's a total fad and everybody tries to do it.
2. If you have the ability to read and understand studies past the abstract, you will sometimes realise that the methodology was flawed, for example they chose a nonsensical workout, the measurements/control sucked, they didn't control for compounding factors, etc. etc. In other words, there are studies that despite their sometimes strong conclusions don't really hold up when you put them under scrutiny. Not all science is good science and especially sports science is riddled with bullshit. So, if the results of a study defy common sense or contradict what has been practiced with great success in the trenches for 20 years, you may want to check the science first.

At the end of the day, you have to figure out what works for you, regardless of what either the huge dude at the gym or the newest study tell you. So if I had to pick between the broscience and the science approach, I'd go down the middle of the road and pick the pragmatic way.

 

[Dens228]

Most people lack discipline that's it. Doing the little things day in and day out. No matter how shitty your genetics are you show me a man with great discipline and I will show you a guy with a pretty damn good physique.

Shelby Starnes is my poster child for my discipline statement.

So true! About 10 years ago I participated in a workplace weight loss competition. I dropped about 28 pounds. People asked me how I did it? I said I just added 15 minutes a day of cardio to my workouts and cut my calories. They said there had t be more to it than that. I said, You're right, I did it for more than a week. LOL

 

[MR. BMJ]

I like a mix of both 'bro-science' and real science. I think there is a middle ground between both. I also agree with TheOther155's post...shit takes time once you've reached a certain point. People that do not know how to make adjustments on training and diet, and a long-term drug approach, will always look the same, or they will blow up and shrink and, well, still look the same at their biggest and leanest states. This is why I love DC training.

I'd add smart training technique in as well, so that injuries do not give set-backs. Not so strict where you are like a damn stiff and hurt yourself, but basic control and range of motion, especially once poundages get heavier.

Disclaimer: I should emphasize "Bro Science" as "Bro experience," and not bro complete jackass.

 

[Ds3317]

in other words, u take what massive steroid abusers say over what biology tells us.

Not at all. Not even sure how you got this from what I wrote. Are you calling Meadows, Dante, Scott, and Skip massive abusers.
Are you saying there’s a difference in what works on steroids vs natural?