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Would Ronnie and Dorian had more Mr O titles if they trained like Phil?

TheAnabolicFreak

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I think most of us on here absolutely LOVE watching those old videos of Dorian and Ronnie training balls to the wall in pre contest shape. I mean who doesn't like 800lb deadlifts and squats to motivate us right before we go to the gym even though they both destroyed their bodies in the process.

That being said both of these guys did it when they were close to a contest and none of that really helped built muscle (but impressed us a lot). By now most of us have come to the conclusion that its ultimately genetics that determine how far you will go in this sport.

You can train as hard as you possibly can, be as scientific as you want and have unlimited amounts of drugs at your disposal but you will always get your ass kicked by someone with better genetics compared to someone who doesn't train as hard, parties his ass off (Chris Cormier) yet WINS.

So that being said if Dorian and Ronnie trained more like Phil Heath does would have they have more Mr Olympia wins since their injuries caused their careers to end? Thoughts.
 

ALLEX

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Nice question that can't really be answered.

Would Dorian be the freak he was if he trained FS7 style? Who knows...

Competition was also tougher back then. If those two guys didn't get gigantic they could've lost to the likes of Flex Wheeler or Shawn Ray, who had very pleasant looking physiques.

Food for thought, though.
 

emeric delczeg

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I think most of us on here absolutely LOVE watching those old videos of Dorian and Ronnie training balls to the wall in pre contest shape. I mean who doesn't like 800lb deadlifts and squats to motivate us right before we go to the gym even though they both destroyed their bodies in the process.

That being said both of these guys did it when they were close to a contest and none of that really helped built muscle (but impressed us a lot). By now most of us have come to the conclusion that its ultimately genetics that determine how far you will go in this sport.

You can train as hard as you possibly can, be as scientific as you want and have unlimited amounts of drugs at your disposal but you will always get your ass kicked by someone with better genetics compared to someone who doesn't train as hard, parties his ass off (Chris Cormier) yet WINS.

So that being said if Dorian and Ronnie trained more like Phil Heath does would have they have more Mr Olympia wins since their injuries caused their careers to end? Thoughts.


Yes.
 

little slice

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the real question..

if they won more O's..





how would they have stayed humble?
 

thethinker48

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They would'nt have pushed the boundaries like they did. They would still be top pros; but not the men we know today.

People can argue all they want, it's their training that separated them from the pack. Train like a human forklift and you will reach the absolute limit of size given the food and drug intake; it will also be far more detrimental if that style doesn't evolve as your career does.

What built them is also what destroyed them, and I dont think either of them have any regret with the work they put in; Ronnie said he would've squatted 800 for 4 reps instead of 2, that's his regret lol

That mindset is what produces champions, the rest are just elite.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

buck

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Course if the opposite happened and Phil trained like Dorian and Ronny would he be harder and grainier?
 

massnup

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Father time? I believe it was injuries that stopped them!
 

kscowboy

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I agree but That plays into Father time. The older you get the less you can lead that lifestyle. Its easier to be huge and pound heavy weights in your 20's. Late 30's and you feel it more and more.
 

rmtt

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I agree but That plays into Father time. The older you get the less you can lead that lifestyle. Its easier to be huge and pound heavy weights in your 20's. Late 30's and you feel it more and more.

Just wait until you hit the early 40's. You pretty much have to restructure your whole training routine especially if you have had any injuries.

My biggest goal was hitting a 4 plate bench a couple of years ago......now I'm a "pump" chaser. Not to say that I don't like to lift heavy when I can.....but my last bench workout was about 275Lbs for 10 reps......which is a far cry from what I was doing a few years ago.

But then I figure I'm in my mid 40's...and weighing 175lbs....so I start feeling better about myself!
 

kscowboy

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Yeah i know what you are saying. Im almost 46 and was benching 4 plates in my early 30's and had a 550 dead (With no straps). Not even close to that now. Most of my workouts are with machines and are in the 12-20 rep range. Havent done flat bench in years and never will again.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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1) Has Phil Heath made a gain in size AT ALL in years? no
2) Dorian and Ronnie dominated due to their sheer size...they outdistanced people because they separated themselves from their cohorts onstage....Heath has to worry about getting beat every single year if he doesnt come in shape
3) People want to think bodybuilding is like playing checkers and no injuries can ever happen. You get under bars and iron plates for hundreds and thousands of repetitive bouts.....injuries are GOING to happen. All it is going to take is one pec tear by Phil Heath and this argument will go away forever. People used to say the same thing about Jay Cutler like ("Jay trains lighter now unlike Dorian and Ronnie who were dumb to do so") and then Cutler tears both biceps (upper on one arm surgery), and the lower bicep on the other arm....and you dont hear a peep anymore......Heath from all these repetitive movements just might end up with a major injury with time...ala Dennis Wolfe (spine), Victor Martinez (quad, pec), Branch Warren (too many to name), Evan Centopani (quad), Cedric (bicep) etc etc etc....its the nature of the beast.
4) Dexter Jackson has never had a major injury and please note that Dexter Jackson hasnt changed sizewise in eons.
5) So the choice is either glide by hoping your elite genetics hold off everyone gunning for you, or get after it in the gym and dominate like Ronnie and Dorian did.....Heath is very lucky that he isnt in the 90's and early 2000's era going up against Ruhl, Sonbaty, Coleman, Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Cormier, Cutler,......he would have his hands full and that narrow shoulder structure would be very pronounced..... standing next to 2003 Coleman would be very humbling
 

massnup

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1) Has Phil Heath made a gain in size AT ALL in years? no
2) Dorian and Ronnie dominated due to their sheer size...they outdistanced people because they separated themselves from their cohorts onstage....Heath has to worry about getting beat every single year if he doesnt come in shape
3) People want to think bodybuilding is like playing checkers and no injuries can ever happen. You get under bars and iron plates for hundreds and thousands of repetitive bouts.....injuries are GOING to happen. All it is going to take is one pec tear by Phil Heath and this argument will go away forever. People used to say the same thing about Jay Cutler like ("Jay trains lighter now unlike Dorian and Ronnie who were dumb to do so") and then Cutler tears both biceps (upper on one arm surgery), and the lower bicep on the other arm....and you dont hear a peep anymore......Heath from all these repetitive movements just might end up with a major injury with time...ala Dennis Wolfe (spine), Victor Martinez (quad, pec), Branch Warren (too many to name), Evan Centopani (quad), Cedric (bicep) etc etc etc....its the nature of the beast.
4) Dexter Jackson has never had a major injury and please note that Dexter Jackson hasnt changed sizewise in eons.
5) So the choice is either glide by hoping your elite genetics hold off everyone gunning for you, or get after it in the gym and dominate like Ronnie and Dorian did.....Heath is very lucky that he isnt in the 90's and early 2000's era going up against Ruhl, Sonbaty, Coleman, Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Cormier, Cutler,......he would have his hands full and that narrow shoulder structure would be very pronounced..... standing next to 2003 Coleman would be very humbling

I've actually never seen anything to what Heath did when he was putting on all of his size in his early years? Now looking at vids it looks like hes a light weight pumper high set trainer.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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People tend to forget that outweighed Heath by 30-40lbs onstage. Especially look at the second photo...its ridiculous
 

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ALLEX

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Phil is similar to Dexter size wise.

If he stood next to Ronnie, it would look like this:

RonDex.jpg
 

kscowboy

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1) Has Phil Heath made a gain in size AT ALL in years? no
2) Dorian and Ronnie dominated due to their sheer size...they outdistanced people because they separated themselves from their cohorts onstage....Heath has to worry about getting beat every single year if he doesnt come in shape
3) People want to think bodybuilding is like playing checkers and no injuries can ever happen. You get under bars and iron plates for hundreds and thousands of repetitive bouts.....injuries are GOING to happen. All it is going to take is one pec tear by Phil Heath and this argument will go away forever. People used to say the same thing about Jay Cutler like ("Jay trains lighter now unlike Dorian and Ronnie who were dumb to do so") and then Cutler tears both biceps (upper on one arm surgery), and the lower bicep on the other arm....and you dont hear a peep anymore......Heath from all these repetitive movements just might end up with a major injury with time...ala Dennis Wolfe (spine), Victor Martinez (quad, pec), Branch Warren (too many to name), Evan Centopani (quad), Cedric (bicep) etc etc etc....its the nature of the beast.
4) Dexter Jackson has never had a major injury and please note that Dexter Jackson hasnt changed sizewise in eons.
5) So the choice is either glide by hoping your elite genetics hold off everyone gunning for you, or get after it in the gym and dominate like Ronnie and Dorian did.....Heath is very lucky that he isnt in the 90's and early 2000's era going up against Ruhl, Sonbaty, Coleman, Yates, Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Cormier, Cutler,......he would have his hands full and that narrow shoulder structure would be very pronounced..... standing next to 2003 Coleman would be very humbling

To your #1 point. He only thing that has grown on him is his gut and midsection. Way too much slin use now a days to me.
 

brewu4

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Im going to sound like an asshole a little bit but this is my honest opinion.

Dorian just pushed himself way too hard close to competition. His body was not able to recover, his form is pretty good on everything he did you just cant push yourself so far past failure so close to a show. Hes admitted in interviews that pre contest was the only time he ever got injuries and if he could go back in time thats the only thing he would change, the intensity level the last 6 weeks or so.

Ronnie is the man, the greatest ever. A freak of nature. But he lifted weights like an asshole and his form is pretty shit on some of his biggest lifts like those infamous front squats. He loaded his hips way too much without proper external rotation in many heavy lifts. not surprising he has had his hips replaced. When i met him at the arnold this year he had his wheel chair and cruches right next to him, but he still stood up to shake everyones hand.

Sad truth is if ronnie has used better mechanics he could have kept training the way he did and had much less wear and tear imo.
 

Swifto

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People tend to forget that outweighed Heath by 30-40lbs onstage. Especially look at the second photo...its ridiculous

Amazing.

Not sure which year those pics are, but I believe Ronnie 2003 was the greatest showing of any bodybuilder ever.
 

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