Wow, Ramy, Iian and Hunter all have lost their lower lats!

[danieltx]

People are throwing out some pretty crazy ideas in this thread. Using isolation exercises vs. compounds has absolutely nothing to do with it and if lat injections were the cause you'd more likely see regression in the upper outer lats (like Nasser) than a space so far from the injection site.

Here's my theory as someone who has also lost a part of their back musculature.

I wonder if part of it is that we don't notice extreme damage to back muscles as much as others. At some point early this year I tore the lowest portion of the left trap around where upper and mid back meet. I never felt a sensation during training or noticed anything outside of usual soreness, but I started seeing bruising in that area when posing my back. Eventually the bruising cleared up but that lower part of the left trap is now gone - it's there on the right side, gone on the left side. It has no impact on strength, just an aesthetic thing. I'd bet it tore doing heavy Smith rack deadlifts as that area of my traps always got a lot of work on them.

 

[dantes]

People are throwing out some pretty crazy ideas in this thread. Using isolation exercises vs. compounds has absolutely nothing to do with it and if lat injections were the cause you'd more likely see regression in the upper outer lats (like Nasser) than a space so far from the injection site.

Here's my theory as someone who has also lost a part of their back musculature.

I wonder if part of it is that we don't notice extreme damage to back muscles as much as others. At some point early this year I tore the lowest portion of the left trap around where upper and mid back meet. I never felt a sensation during training or noticed anything outside of usual soreness, but I started seeing bruising in that area when posing my back. Eventually the bruising cleared up but that lower part of the left trap is now gone - it's there on the right side, gone on the left side. It has no impact on strength, just an aesthetic thing. I'd bet it tore doing heavy Smith rack deadlifts as that area of my traps always got a lot of work on them.

Do you really think he could suffer that level of damage in a short period? I am referring to Ian. Ramy I do believe stated he had an injury and nerve damage could cause serious issues over a year but Ian recently competed and his back was fine in his last show.

 

[headtrainer]

I think it’s from doing too many volumous injections into the lats like Ramy did with his outer quads. If it was nerve damage, it would be from prior spine surgeries. I don’t think any of them have had spine surgery, so it’s not that.

 

[danieltx]

Do you really think he could suffer that level of damage in a short period? I am referring to Ian. Ramy I do believe stated he had an injury and nerve damage could cause serious issues over a year but Ian recently competed and his back was fine in his last show.

It seems pretty crazy but I lost that part of my trap in just 3-4 months.

I don't have the answers - I think the situations are probably unique to each person. Since Iain is pretty active on YouTube I hope he'll discuss it one one of the podcasts.

I think it’s from doing too many volumous injections into the lats like Ramy did with his outer quads. If it was nerve damage, it would be from prior spine surgeries. I don’t think any of them have had spine surgery, so it’s not that.

By what mechanism would injecting the lats - which almost all superheavyweighst have to inject in the upper outer portion - impact the lower-inner part of the back? Nerve damage from injections typically impact the area the needle is placed, not an area far away.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Maybe it’s a posing issue? Now there’s an emphasis and glutes/hamstrings? Trying to display both takes away from flare of the lower lats? Idk , just throwing out some ideas. I honestly have no idea, but Weird to say the least.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

It seems pretty crazy but I lost that part of my trap in just 3-4 months.

I don't have the answers - I think the situations are probably unique to each person. Since Iain is pretty active on YouTube I hope he'll discuss it one one of the podcasts.


By what mechanism would injecting the lats - which almost all superheavyweighst have to inject in the upper outer portion - impact the lower-inner part of the back? Nerve damage from injections typically impact the area the needle is placed, not an area far away.

That’s pretty crazy. I honestly can’t tell on your physique. Is it now hard to connect to the injured area?

 

[subzero]

Been following bodybuilding since 1976. Have not seen this happen in the sport before. And to three pros competing in the same contest. To me it seem to be connected to injections. Going to be very interesting to see where all this leads to.

 

[alfresco]

I'm just gonna put this theory out there, cuz I have nobody else to talk to LOL :

1. Weightlifting, in the end, encourages muscle belly shortening and, hopefully, hypertrophy...however, it can also cause hypotrophy at the same rate too.

2. High androgen levels absolutely cause "male aging" (eg, shortening of muscle bellies, receded hair lines, facial lines etc).

3. Ramy looked waaaay better and fresher when he WASN'T training all year long.... he used to use the old Levrone approach. I believe his physique isn't quite setup for hard heavy disciplined training.

Training any one bodypart (especially "weak" bodyparts) all the time, hard and heavy, might just be way to much for certain bodies with their own genetic limitations, and the side effects of that show up as "missing bodyparts" under heavy loss of water and glycogen depletion... just because your rep numbers and weights might be going up, it doesn't mean the lats/biceps/pecs/etc are gonna LOOK better! They might be stronger because the shortened muscle bellies are "cocked" and ready for a heavy load all the time, but that doesn't equate to "more mass" and better physical "look" of the muscle groups in question.

Food for thought

Good food.

Much to think about and discuss but me thinks you just might be on to something.

 

[165StateChamp]

Hunter never had lats
Iain was extremely flat
Ramy…it’s an actual issue along with some other disappearing muscle groups.

 

[TheRoid]

It's well documented that intramuscular injections can cause injury to the nerves and subsequent muscle atrophy.
That being said, I think this has nothing to do with the melted back syndrome.

 

[TheRoid]

Me thinks you just might be on something.

Crack?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I'm not saying it is that injections I'm just saying it's possible. Milos has been around a long time and seen a lot of things. Well I don't agree with everything he says I do think injections can cause nerve damage. This is one reason I like doing sub q maybe 6 months out of the Year especially if I don't plan on competing or taking short burst between competitions or if I'm taking say a year or even a year and a half I don't really put on what size more maintain and save the size for maybe coming into that competition therefore I limit my muscular injections. It's not exactly a Kevin but I'm not going as heavy and I'm not taking as many hormones. That that said if I were competing more often than I probably wouldn't come off as much or hrt doses.

 

[alfresco]

Crack?

. . . on to something.

 

[pickapeck]

This may or may not be related, but has anyone figured out what happened to Scott Steiner's pecs? It kind of looks like what happened to these guys lower lats..... Just went away....

Ran out of stem cells. From memory, stem cells live at the muscle insertions. They differentiate and migrate to join the existing muscle cells. that's why lifters have more myonuclei per unit area than regular people. Once they're depleted from age or whatever you see that kind of thing happening.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Ran out of stem cells. From memory, stem cells live at the muscle insertions. They differentiate and migrate to join the existing muscle cells. that's why lifters have more myonuclei per unit area than regular people. Once they're depleted from age or whatever you see that kind of thing happening.

I would think over stretching the muscle will cause this. Just about all muscles can grow and function at 90% range of motion doesn't have to be 100% and beyond that can cause injuries and maybe in this case what you're talking about. If anybody remembers Doug Brignole he actually lost both his gastronomics in her calves he only had outer calves.

 

[pickapeck]

Ran out of stem cells. From memory, stem cells live at the muscle insertions. They differentiate and migrate to join the existing muscle cells. that's why lifters have more myonuclei per unit area than regular people. Once they're depleted from age or whatever you see that kind of thing happening.

Or not...

 

[emeric delczeg]

It's well documented that intramuscular injections can cause injury to the nerves and subsequent muscle atrophy.
That being said, I think this has nothing to do with the melted back syndrome.

Correct.

 

[TrippplePPP]

This thread is getting overgrown with broscience. If injections his lats lead to his lats melting equally bilaterally then why doesn't every single bodybuilder have melted ass cheeks and delts? Why would it be perfectly equal bilaterally? Why does Ramy have lumps on his ass over the area where you inject, upper outer, and this has not melted away. Come on guys.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Good food.

Much to think about and discuss but me thinks you just might be on to something.

Agreed Ron.

Strange that nobody picked up on his post until you did.

 

[Fit2Serve]

Been following bodybuilding since 1976. Have not seen this happen in the sport before. And to three pros competing in the same contest. To me it seem to be connected to injections. Going to be very interesting to see where all this leads to.

thats why this is so wild