Opinions on Estrogen control?

[swim15]

Estrogen by itself is carcinogenic in women in regards to reproductive organs so that would explain why nolva would be but not in men.

 

[Dezzy]

I just learned a lot wow

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

 

[Enhancedathlete]

interesting post, I have high E2 and estros just normally.. itis hard to take s persons that converts easy and regulate the hormone balance..

i have tried arimadex, aromasin as AI's and i find the nolva, examestene tend to work much better for me in small doses rather large blasts, it is still trial and error.....

when i run normal doses of these my body goes to low in the estros, so i only take 1/2 dose daily... it seems to be working.... i will try a full does of armidex and nolva together for a week and see what happens, but I am also working on my cholesterol levels as well..

 

[LATS]

That is the real question IMO, does nolva "protect" you from all that e2? I don't know, maybe. There is also the issue that nolva is a mild carcinogen in women, but that seems to only be in reproductive organs, and does that have to do E2 being blocked? I don't know.

I really like 10mg nolva with 6mg aromasin on my current cycle, but I'm taking my test a little higher than you. What about like .25mg adex twice weekly along with 10mg nolva daily? Just to drop that E2 level a bit and let the nolva do the rest?

If I was running test only, I would stick with aromasin, but running test with other estrogenic AAS (deca/eq/drol/etc) a little nolva does the trick for me.

Interesting .. Thanks for reply.. My concern had always been that nolva being a " blocker" won't help much if any in regards to e 2 ect.. So I'm I reading it right when you say you sometimes just run nolva for estro protection.. Do you feel nolva has anti e properties also ? I can find any literature that states that it does...You also state you like arimidex for lower dose test ? I always thought that aromasin was better at e2 protection than arimidex.. This subject has always interested me and confused me lol.. But I am seeing the benefit of maybe running low dose nolva with a low dose anti e..

 

[swim15]

Interesting .. Thanks for reply.. My concern had always been that nolva being a " blocker" won't help much if any in regards to e 2 ect.. So I'm I reading it right when you say you sometimes just run nolva for estro protection.. Do you feel nolva has anti e properties also ? I can find any literature that states that it does...You also state you like arimidex for lower dose test ? I always thought that aromasin was better at e2 protection than arimidex.. This subject has always interested me and confused me lol.. But I am seeing the benefit of maybe running low dose nolva with a low dose anti e..

An aromatase inhibitor, AI, (Adex, aromasin, letro) binds to the enzyme that converts hormones into estrogen (aromatase) so there is no conversion to estrogen.

A SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) allows conversion to estrogen but blocks estrogen at the receptor even if there is a lot being converted and floating around in your blood stream.

A SERM will completely protect you from gyno but not high estrogen levels while an AI can, not will, prevent both.

 

[LATS]

Exactly.. That is why I now run a small anti e with a small amount of a serm.. Although I don't go over 300 mgs anymore of test this amount will drive e2 very high.. And honestly I have seen only few that didn't have estro issues at 200 mgs of test.. Nolva is not going to help that except in various tissues.. I know many who don't want to hinder gains and avoid anti e .. But the damage from estro is too risky not to have at least a low dose aromasin evt three times a week..

 

[Sevn]

Exactly.. That is why I now run a small anti e with a small amount of a serm.. Although I don't go over 300 mgs anymore of test this amount will drive e2 very high.. And honestly I have seen only few that didn't have estro issues at 200 mgs of test.. Nolva is not going to help that except in various tissues.. I know many who don't want to hinder gains and avoid anti e .. But the damage from estro is too risky not to have at least a low dose aromasin evt three times a week..

Have you ever managed to be a on a Test Dosage which would require no AI at all? I see you mentioning 200mg and 300mg's Test.

I was thinking about dropping my test dosage to 125mg's and if it's quality test it should keep your T levels in the natural range between 800 - 1,200 and that will keep everything functioning add alongside that 300-400mg's of Tren would seem like a super low dosage fun blast which would require no AI at all.

Since if Estrogen is not elevated, prolactin can't elevate aswell right? So need to dose Caber or Asin. This is all just speculation though, I'm gonna try it out soon lowest I've went is 175mg's Test and I still needed a tiny dose of asin/week.

 

[swim15]

Exactly.. That is why I now run a small anti e with a small amount of a serm.. Although I don't go over 300 mgs anymore of test this amount will drive e2 very high.. And honestly I have seen only few that didn't have estro issues at 200 mgs of test.. Nolva is not going to help that except in various tissues.. I know many who don't want to hinder gains and avoid anti e .. But the damage from estro is too risky not to have at least a low dose aromasin evt three times a week..

That is interesting...I know very few people in real life that require an AI at those doses but goes to show everyone is different OP. I don't need one until test gets above about 1500mg a week although most would need one before this so always a good idea to monitor yourself individually and your conversion as has been noted.

 

[LATS]

That is interesting...I know very few people in real life that require an AI at those doses but goes to show everyone is different OP. I don't need one until test gets above about 1500mg a week although most would need one before this so always a good idea to monitor yourself individually and your conversion as has been noted.

yeah and thats always the issue.. many dont feel the sides so they assume estro isnt raised.. but blood work would show different.. i have a buddy who ran 1200 to 1500 mgs of test all the time and never took a anti e.. no bloat.. no sexual disfunction ect.. but recently got blood work for a hrt dr and the estro level was off the charts .. even his dr now told him no one he ever helped didnt need a anti e at 150 to 200 mgs of test.. he said estro will be higher at those dosages esepecially as one ages.. he now pays great attention to estro levels and runs a anti e during all cycles..

 

[Thebigone]

Maybe I'm not up to date but I thought nolvadex only blocks estrogen where gyno can form preventing gyno but won't do anything for full body estrogen like adex or aromasin.

 

[ironanimal]

Search function works fine.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...um/82587-why-important-run-ai-when-cycle.html

**broken link removed**

Great thread thanks for posting I had gyno removed because I had it during teen years so I assumed I didn't need an ai. But now I'm going to be incorporating them. Thanks

 

[Gizmo]

2. AIs can only lower E2 levels by about 50% in males (same with premenopausal females I might add), this is due to "protected" aromatization that is going on in the ovaries and in the testicles that AIs cannot reach.

.

Maybe if there are no exogenous hormones used. But I have crushed my E2 several times with letro while on a good amount of test. I even have had a time my bloodwork came back with E2 <5. That's as low as the reading went. Maybe I'm some genetic anomaly, but I doubt it.

 

[Kaladryn]

Interesting .. Thanks for reply.. My concern had always been that nolva being a " blocker" won't help much if any in regards to e 2 ect.. So I'm I reading it right when you say you sometimes just run nolva for estro protection.. Do you feel nolva has anti e properties also ? I can find any literature that states that it does...You also state you like arimidex for lower dose test ? I always thought that aromasin was better at e2 protection than arimidex.. This subject has always interested me and confused me lol.. But I am seeing the benefit of maybe running low dose nolva with a low dose anti e..

The problem with aromasin on lower doses is how do you dose it? It has a halflife of 9 hours in men, and peak suppression at 12 hours, so you have to dose it daily at least. You can break the pills into quarters but it's hard to go below 6mg for most people (although I find it fairly easy to break out the exacto knife and do 3mg...). Arimidex has a much longer halflife and can be dosed more infrequently allowing a lower overall dose much easier.

Have you ever managed to be a on a Test Dosage which would require no AI at all? I see you mentioning 200mg and 300mg's Test.

I was thinking about dropping my test dosage to 125mg's and if it's quality test it should keep your T levels in the natural range between 800 - 1,200 and that will keep everything functioning add alongside that 300-400mg's of Tren would seem like a super low dosage fun blast which would require no AI at all.

800-1200 is pretty high and you will probably need an AI. Real normal test ranges are 500-700, with mid 700s being very high. If you can keep it down into these ranges, aromatization may be minimal.

That is interesting...I know very few people in real life that require an AI at those doses but goes to show everyone is different OP. I don't need one until test gets above about 1500mg a week although most would need one before this so always a good idea to monitor yourself individually and your conversion as has been noted.

Most people need an AI at over 100mg of test weekly or E2 will be somewhat elevated, especially people who blast because it excites aromatase.

Maybe I'm not up to date but I thought nolvadex only blocks estrogen where gyno can form preventing gyno but won't do anything for full body estrogen like adex or aromasin.

Nolvadex blocks all E2 receptors for the most part, there isn't anything "selective" about it really.

Maybe if there are no exogenous hormones used. But I have crushed my E2 several times with letro while on a good amount of test. I even have had a time my bloodwork came back with E2 <5. That's as low as the reading went. Maybe I'm some genetic anomaly, but I doubt it.

Letro is the exception when it comes to E2 suppression, although it is still limited in suppression to around 80%. Remember that labs use a very cheap testing method for E2 that is easily fooled.

Great read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

 

[lowTdude]

Have you ever managed to be a on a Test Dosage which would require no AI at all? I see you mentioning 200mg and 300mg's Test.

I was thinking about dropping my test dosage to 125mg's and if it's quality test it should keep your T levels in the natural range between 800 - 1,200 and that will keep everything functioning add alongside that 300-400mg's of Tren would seem like a super low dosage fun blast which would require no AI at all.

Since if Estrogen is not elevated, prolactin can't elevate aswell right? So need to dose Caber or Asin. This is all just speculation though, I'm gonna try it out soon lowest I've went is 175mg's Test and I still needed a tiny dose of asin/week.

looking forward to your result on 125 mg test + 300-400 tren. I'm only on 100 mg pharma test and feeling absolutely amazing. pin every 3 days 50 mg tho. Took almost 4 weeks to pick up tho since my last protocol that I had to stop for a month and half and get on the new one. I still take 6-8 mg of aromasin once may be most twice a week depending on how I feel, it keeps my e2 in lower 20s where I feel great. Never used tren before..looking forward to it keep us updated.

 

[LATS]

I agree Kaladryn about nolva not being selective.. Truly how coukd it be.. ? It blocks e2 period.. Does not reduce it as we know but blocks it.. That is why I have brought up for years that it may be beneficial for helping with prostate issues as well..

I have recently came across a chart showing estrogen suppression of aromasin that was interesting.. It showed that aromasin, although having a short half life , did not let estro to return to baseline for almost 96 hours and no rebound.. So technically, based on the graph aromasin coukd be taken Eod easily to keep estro at bay.. I'll see if I can find it., it was a study done on men..

And as I was stating in my other post I also agree that everyone has elevated test typical HRT dosages.. You may not have symptoms but it's doung its damage..

 

[Kaladryn]

I have recently came across a chart showing estrogen suppression of aromasin that was interesting.. It showed that aromasin, although having a short half life , did not let estro to return to baseline for almost 96 hours and no rebound.. So technically, based on the graph aromasin coukd be taken Eod easily to keep estro at bay.. I'll see if I can find it., it was a study done on men..

And as I was stating in my other post I also agree that everyone has elevated test typical HRT dosages.. You may not have symptoms but it's doung its damage..

Returning to baseline and being effectively lowered aren't the same thing remember. The first study on men floating around showed the halflife at 8.9 hours and E2 starting to climb again after 12 hours. The chart probably also may have used daily dosing which would have a cumulative effect over time. I used to cut the little round pills into 1/8ths, it's definitely possible, now that it's off patent the generic exemestane comes in different shapes...

 

[Kaladryn]

looking forward to your result on 125 mg test + 300-400 tren. I'm only on 100 mg pharma test and feeling absolutely amazing. pin every 3 days 50 mg tho. Took almost 4 weeks to pick up tho since my last protocol that I had to stop for a month and half and get on the new one. I still take 6-8 mg of aromasin once may be most twice a week depending on how I feel, it keeps my e2 in lower 20s where I feel great. Never used tren before..looking forward to it keep us updated.

Remember tren will mess with E2 results (showing them much higher) if standard testing is used.

 

[swim15]

I agree Kaladryn about nolva not being selective.. Truly how coukd it be.. ? It blocks e2 period.. Does not reduce it as we know but blocks it.. That is why I have brought up for years that it may be beneficial for helping with prostate issues as well..

I have recently came across a chart showing estrogen suppression of aromasin that was interesting.. It showed that aromasin, although having a short half life , did not let estro to return to baseline for almost 96 hours and no rebound.. So technically, based on the graph aromasin coukd be taken Eod easily to keep estro at bay.. I'll see if I can find it., it was a study done on men..

And as I was stating in my other post I also agree that everyone has elevated test typical HRT dosages.. You may not have symptoms but it's doung its damage..

Nolva is selective in that it acts as an estrogen antagonist in some tissues but acts as estrogen in other tissues. It also has direct anti E effect because the metabolite N,N-Didesmethyl-4-hydroxytamoxifen acts as an AI

 

[swim15]

yeah and thats always the issue.. many dont feel the sides so they assume estro isnt raised.. but blood work would show different.. i have a buddy who ran 1200 to 1500 mgs of test all the time and never took a anti e.. no bloat.. no sexual disfunction ect.. but recently got blood work for a hrt dr and the estro level was off the charts .. even his dr now told him no one he ever helped didnt need a anti e at 150 to 200 mgs of test.. he said estro will be higher at those dosages esepecially as one ages.. he now pays great attention to estro levels and runs a anti e during all cycles..

True but high estrogen isn't necessarily bad if you don't have any physical sides and blood work/blood pressure is all in range. At least there aren't any issues I can think of

 

[LATS]

True but high estrogen isn't necessarily bad if you don't have any physical sides and blood work/blood pressure is all in range. At least there aren't any issues I can think of

" high normal" estro may not be bad.. But going over for long periods of time is not good.. And running a gram or more of test ( as many here do) with no estro protection is asking for issues.. Elevated estro levels are what most physicians see as the primary cause of prostate cancers.. It used to be thought that dht was the culprit but many are leaning to estrogen .. I know when my father got prostate cancer he had very elevated estro..