Growing delts

[richiec]

here's a few pics from this morning 5 minutes after waking up
clearly nothing impressive, but I'm a work in progress

 

[buck]

I love watching people train delts. If they want to isolate them they take their elbow from perpendicular to the ground to horizontal. If they are doing presses they come down to horizontal then back to lock out which is mostly a triceps extension and traps.

 

[tokon]

My best results were achieved utilizing a very simple but effective pre-exhaust routine.

Start with a set of very strict standing, arms locked, lateral raises (~20 reps) immediately,
less than 3 seconds, followed by a set of standing behind the neck barbell presses (~20 reps).
Do this two to three times a week.

Have everything set-up in advance; dumbbells at your at your feet and the bar already
loaded, then begin. If fail before your prescribed reps, continue with partials until failure
on both the laterals and the press behind the neck. If you do not have the shoulder
flexibility for press behind the neck presses, do ‘regular’ presses and not on a machine.

One or two, perhaps even three cycles will be sufficient. If you can do more cycles than that
than you are not working hard enough. I would start with two cycles and go up or down
from there. And when in doubt, do less cycles, not more.

Guaranteed, this will fry your delts. In a matter of three to four weeks, you will see results
but you must do them exactly as prescribed, especially the time between exercises as a
muscle regains about fifty percent of its strength after approximately three seconds.

And be sure to check your ego at the door. It’s not how much weight you are using, it is
how you do them. You will probably have to start with about half the weight you were
accustomed to using in both exercises, but you will get stronger and larger delts.

An alternative routine I have used which produced good results for a while is again to
start with lateral raises, then do wide grip up-right rows followed by press behind the
neck with the same weight, for as many reps you can perform. I think this, in retrospect,
lead to overtraining, but was very very productive in the short term.

I think that the deltoids are about the easiest body part to train and subsequently see
results in. Conversely they are about the easiest body part to over-train as they serve some
function in just about every upper body exercise.

Hope this helps. Please give this a try. Keep accurate records and report back with some
fotos (before and after) if possible. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Some excellent advice here imo.

 

[Kaladryn]

Would you say it’s possible your form wasn’t great using the 125’s and you weren’t targeting the delta as well?


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The form looked good visually, the problem is I am dominate in my traps on shoulder presses. Probably very subtle movement of the whole shoulder girdle doing a lot of the explosive work. This is similar to how small movements at the knees and hips can easily do most of the work on calf raises.

I often train side delts first now, then do front raises of some sort, usually a pretty extensive drop set at the end, and finally, finish with a shoulder press. Now I can fail at 12-15 reps with a nice manageable weight.

I feel that heavy shoulder presses have done the most damage to my shoulders of anything I do in the gym. Think from an evolutionary standpoint: we aren't designed to lift large amounts of weight over our heads, our arms move like that to grab branches, not do overhead presses. We aren't really even monkeys anymore either, we are more like horses or mules, our main strength is picking things up off the ground.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

The form looked good visually, the problem is I am dominate in my traps on shoulder presses. Probably very subtle movement of the whole shoulder girdle doing a lot of the explosive work. This is similar to how small movements at the knees and hips can easily do most of the work on calf raises.

I often train side delts first now, then do front raises of some sort, usually a pretty extensive drop set at the end, and finally, finish with a shoulder press. Now I can fail at 12-15 reps with a nice manageable weight.

I feel that heavy shoulder presses have done the most damage to my shoulders of anything I do in the gym. Think from an evolutionary standpoint: we aren't designed to lift large amounts of weight over our heads, our arms move like that to grab branches, not do overhead presses. We aren't really even monkeys anymore either, we are more like horses or mules, our main strength is picking things up off the ground.

K - you haven't found that behind the neck press bothers your delts?

Long term pain?

I too like this press the most (next to side laterals) however, the chiro told me to stop after finding out via ultrasound I have calcific tendonitis.

Perhaps swallow the pill they call pride and move on?

 

[Kaladryn]

K - you haven't found that behind the neck press bothers your delts?

Long term pain?

I too like this press the most (next to side laterals) however, the chiro told me to stop after finding out via ultrasound I have calcific tendonitis.

Perhaps swallow the pill they call pride and move on?

I did behind the neck presses from like 16 to 22 and then switched to the front when doing barbell presses. If I do seated barbell presses these days I set up in the smith machine and come down right by my chin. I'm not vertical either, think very steep incline (although I use a regular seated bench).

But, I don't really like barbell presses, I prefer dumbbell presses, as these allow me to find that perfect balanced groove that feels the most natural on the shoulder, and thus the least amount of pain.

I have several calcified tendons, most people do, I have degenerative crap going on in there, arthritis, torn labrum, SLAP tear, etc. My surgeon says my shoulders are actually doing pretty good for my age and history, a lot of that stuff they diagnose is scarier than it sounds.

As to swallowing the pill of pride, I check my ego at the door every time I come in the gym, it's the only way to keep pushing hard and not hurt yourself. I still go heavy enough to be a little scared sometimes

 

[Chipper Jones78]

I did behind the neck presses from like 16 to 22 and then switched to the front when doing barbell presses. If I do seated barbell presses these days I set up in the smith machine and come down right by my chin. I'm not vertical either, think very steep incline (although I use a regular seated bench).

But, I don't really like barbell presses, I prefer dumbbell presses, as these allow me to find that perfect balanced groove that feels the most natural on the shoulder, and thus the least amount of pain.

I have several calcified tendons, most people do, I have degenerative crap going on in there, arthritis, torn labrum, SLAP tear, etc. My surgeon says my shoulders are actually doing pretty good for my age and history, a lot of that stuff they diagnose is scarier than it sounds.

As to swallowing the pill of pride, I check my ego at the door every time I come in the gym, it's the only way to keep pushing hard and not hurt yourself. I still go heavy enough to be a little scared sometimes

Sooo....I'll stop bitching and complaining about small tendon tear at 39 in one shoulder when you have all these all things going on with your body

I dont feel any pain when In press behind the neck for shoulders.

Side note on my shoulder - I feel when I dont train or some sort of physical activity it hurts more, basically if I rest it for too long, it hurts more, it doesn't heal more.

Cheers for the reply.

Keep up the great work, you look great.

Chip

 

[alfresco]

. . .
I feel that heavy shoulder presses have done the most damage to my shoulders of anything I do in the gym. Think from an evolutionary standpoint: we aren't designed to lift large amounts of weight over our heads, our arms move like that to grab branches, not do overhead presses.

K,

If you take, let us say, 50 untrained people and put them in
a gym and ask them to do bench presses and overhead presses,
they will all be far stronger naturally in overhead pressing then
they be doing bench presses. I do not have an explanation
for this but it is true.

I think bench presses are far more injurious to your shoulder
joint then any sort of overhead pressing. You could not pay
me to do bench presses. It saddens me to read of all the
people with shoulder issues and torn pecs at such and early
age, especially when such injuries could so easily have been
avoided.

 

[little slice]

I feel like it's worth mentioning that delts seem to be one of the things that vanishes pretty quick when you get higher bf %



mine really 'pop' when im lean af

 

[richiec]

I feel like it's worth mentioning that delts seem to be one of the things that vanishes pretty quick when you get higher bf %



mine really 'pop' when im lean af

Thanks for calling me fat









Bully

 

[zacharykane]

Same, my shoulders look nearly non existent until I'm dieted down, then they look fine. For some reason that's one of the first places my body likes to add fat.

I feel like it's worth mentioning that delts seem to be one of the things that vanishes pretty quick when you get higher bf %



mine really 'pop' when im lean af

 

[little slice]

Thanks for calling me fat









Bully

the left hand bullies


but the right hand gives solution

 

[Elvia1023]

Richie your delts are not a weak point. Although obviously you can train them to be stronger. But my point is you can either get bigger all over or and as little slice alluded to if you get ripped everything will look better... delts probably more so than anything.

You can train delts for 30 mins or 3 hours per week. No way is wrong and it's about finding what works for you. I love low volume high frequency approaches but the body can take high volume if you eat accordingly.

My general starting advice for a split is the same for delts as it is for chest and back... actually and quads and hams as well. Train them twice weekly with one day being heavy and the other being more pump based.

Cover all bases each day. Front, side and rear movement and whatever else you want to throw in. Looking at you I would say do a tonne of face pulls, rear delt raises and machine/db rows pulling very high. I like to use a back machine and put the seat at the bottom and due to my height I have to squeeze down but excellent movement for rear delts. Face pulls with a rope as well.

Then of course lateral raises I would do both days. One day with db's and the next with a cable or in a machine. Then for front the same sort of stuff. Barbells, db's, cables etc.

I would have 1 heavy pressing movement per week as well. Either behind the neck or to the front. If you do to the front then do some lighter weight behind the neck presses and visa versa.

You can get great result with low or high volume. But to make them pop just blasting the shit out of them (in a sensible manner) will work. Some guys would laugh at the volume I do for shoulders some days... destroy them.

LS do I have to post a pic now

 

[Kaladryn]

K,

If you take, let us say, 50 untrained people and put them in
a gym and ask them to do bench presses and overhead presses,
they will all be far stronger naturally in overhead pressing then
they be doing bench presses. I do not have an explanation
for this but it is true.

I think bench presses are far more injurious to your shoulder
joint then any sort of overhead pressing. You could not pay
me to do bench presses. It saddens me to read of all the
people with shoulder issues and torn pecs at such and early
age, especially when such injuries could so easily have been
avoided.

I completely agree with this, bench press is totally unnatural. In a "functional" world, you will NEVER be laying flat on your back pressing straight up. The narrow bench impinging the shoulder blades adds to the bad mechanics. The pectorals can't work properly (they want to draw the arm across and downward, not across and upward). Decline: pushing up off the ground, pushup, natural. Incline: leaning forward to push horizontally, natural. Flat: you would never have leverage in this position, the angle and forces on the shoulder are all wrong, unnatural, non-functional, injury-causing (mainly due to unnatural forces on the rotator cuff muscles due to above mechanical issues).

Powerlifters get around this by arching so much the movement becomes a decline and the shoulder blades are removed from the bench and can move normally.

 

[GDADDYG8]

I love watching people train delts. If they want to isolate them they take their elbow from perpendicular to the ground to horizontal. If they are doing presses they come down to horizontal then back to lock out which is mostly a triceps extension and traps.

I believe during a DB Shoulder Press the elbows should go past perpendicular to the ground. You should try to tuck them into your rib cage almost. Full ROM.


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[Pericles]

On laterals and rear delts, try with your palms forward. Focus on the movement and not how much weight you can move

Turning your palm forward just stretches the rear more, you need to turn your thumb away when you want a full contraction. Keeping the palm forward will leave you with less of a contraction.

 

[Pericles]

Anyone saying free weights are king here for delt growth is just flat out wrong. Constant tension and high reps with the right movements will give you the 3d look you want.
Examples

Face Pulls (palms in hammer grip position) 5x30
Cable Lateral Raise 4x30-40
Standing high to low cable reverse flies 5x30-40
Then a few movements seen here
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8JuBVL3dxQ"]REAL Science Based Rear Delt Exercise (ALL NEW GAINS!) - YouTube[/ame]

Delts will always respond better to higher reps as they are slower twitch.

Make most of your back movements palm down and focus on squeezing. YOU DO NOT NEED TO OVERHEAD PRESS, anyone saying you do has not trained these movements proper.

 

[Pericles]

I completely agree with this, bench press is totally unnatural. In a "functional" world, you will NEVER be laying flat on your back pressing straight up. The narrow bench impinging the shoulder blades adds to the bad mechanics. The pectorals can't work properly (they want to draw the arm across and downward, not across and upward). Decline: pushing up off the ground, pushup, natural. Incline: leaning forward to push horizontally, natural. Flat: you would never have leverage in this position, the angle and forces on the shoulder are all wrong, unnatural, non-functional, injury-causing (mainly due to unnatural forces on the rotator cuff muscles due to above mechanical issues).

Powerlifters get around this by arching so much the movement becomes a decline and the shoulder blades are removed from the bench and can move normally.

Shoulder blades will not move naturally on any bench angle. Doing a standing cable chest press without any support would.

 

[Pericles]

Richie your delts are not a weak point. Although obviously you can train them to be stronger. But my point is you can either get bigger all over or and as little slice alluded to if you get ripped everything will look better... delts probably more so than anything.

You can train delts for 30 mins or 3 hours per week. No way is wrong and it's about finding what works for you. I love low volume high frequency approaches but the body can take high volume if you eat accordingly.

My general starting advice for a split is the same for delts as it is for chest and back... actually and quads and hams as well. Train them twice weekly with one day being heavy and the other being more pump based.

Cover all bases each day. Front, side and rear movement and whatever else you want to throw in. Looking at you I would say do a tonne of face pulls, rear delt raises and machine/db rows pulling very high. I like to use a back machine and put the seat at the bottom and due to my height I have to squeeze down but excellent movement for rear delts. Face pulls with a rope as well.

Then of course lateral raises I would do both days. One day with db's and the next with a cable or in a machine. Then for front the same sort of stuff. Barbells, db's, cables etc.

I would have 1 heavy pressing movement per week as well. Either behind the neck or to the front. If you do to the front then do some lighter weight behind the neck presses and visa versa.

You can get great result with low or high volume. But to make them pop just blasting the shit out of them (in a sensible manner) will work. Some guys would laugh at the volume I do for shoulders some days... destroy them.

LS do I have to post a pic now

Back and delts can handle much higher volumes than chest and quads based off all the research. You can hit delts EVERY day. Look at basketball players. They are either blocking and holding out arms to the side (like a bent over lateral) or shooting.

 

[Pericles]

here's a few pics from this morning 5 minutes after waking up
clearly nothing impressive, but I'm a work in progress

Lay off the overhead presses, your right shoulder sits about an inch lower than the left meaning you have humeral anterior glide on that side> Impingement will happen at some point. Do face pulls every day and hit the rears and sides 4-5x a week.