Collagen synthesis and joint health.

[danieltx]

I just bought some on ebay, probably a bad decision on my part. Ive been using it 3 days and I've noticed that it burns badly when pinned (subq) and tonight I had some anxiety out of nowhere. I dont want to give up on it yet, but if the anxiety/panic continues ill toss it in the trash.

Buying any medicine or health supplement on eBay is probably not a good idea.

 

[LK3]

Deca may make joints feel good, but actually, just mask damage or pain. Winny may actually repair joints but make them hurt. Your tendinopathy is a combination of tendinitis that is aggravated by tension and movement and tendinosis that is healed by tension, that is why it never goes away. You can do it if you get the right combination of tension and strengthening without aggravating. Injuries that are counterintuitive in some way are the hardest to cure. Most are. With the muscular issues, it's usually the "opposing area" from the where the issue is and "neurological not muscular." Retrain the neurological patterns of contraction for the opposing muscle/area, problem fixed.



Healthy tendons are made up of type I and repaired by type III, I don't know if supplemental type II would be effective, whatever the case, repaired tendons are more delicate at least temporarily.



All awesome info, although I would say that low T may reduce collagen synthesis, when I had my biceps tendon re-attached, my surgeon told me that TRT would speed healing, he was one of the team doctors for the raiders and sharks too, did a great job on my biceps.

low t fucks everything up, lol :lightbulb:

i think like with many things in all this at some point trt is always best as the low t alternatives are potentially worse.

smack, idk how to do the multi quote thing. but that may very well be where i got the idea of looking into colagen stuff. as this is not a new topic, i also think that much of the newer info largly indicates in our special set of circumstances we are kinda fucked. lol

there are great ideas and maybe if you implement enough of them and pay attention to training and biomachanic aspects like kal says you can find relief.

i sure have. but that doesnt mean the problem is "fixed".

just in all the info i have read there is nothing real possative or conclusive on the subject and most things we can spend money on do not seem to have a real, cost vs return ratio.

:lightbulb:

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I just bought some on ebay, probably a bad decision on my part. Ive been using it 3 days and I've noticed that it burns badly when pinned (subq) and tonight I had some anxiety out of nowhere. I dont want to give up on it yet, but if the anxiety/panic continues ill toss it in the trash.

Throw the vials in the trash.

 

[Kaladryn]

BPC-157 is amazing. Problem is there seems to be a lot of fake products around.

I'm about to do a BPC-157 log from Giant Lab, going to be running it with their GH, I'm predicting my tendons are going to be super happy and having a party.

 

[whacked]

Looking forward to reviews on their peps and Gh

 

[Hyper-T]

Anavar has been shown to increase tendon breaking strength and elasticity. Just what you want. Unfortunatly it destroys hdl. Hgh and igf-1 have many positives for joint and tendon health.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Anavar has been shown to increase tendon breaking strength and elasticity. Just what you want. Unfortunatly it destroys hdl. Hgh and igf-1 have many positives for joint and tendon health.

Reference please

 

[Kaladryn]

Anavar has been shown to increase tendon breaking strength and elasticity.

I googled this line and the first two hits do show an increase in tensile strength, however, there is nothing about elasticity.

Many AAS have been shown to increase collagen synthesis and tensile strength. The "problem" is that meatheads automatically think that is a good thing, it is not, a repaired tendon might have more tensile strength but it is LESS elastic. Elasticity is everything when it comes to tendons, without it, you get immediate tendinopathy, even if the tendon is technically stronger from a purely tensile point of view. There is a little bit of physics to understanding this.

 

[chopsuey]

I googled this line and the first two hits do show an increase in tensile strength, however, there is nothing about elasticity.

Many AAS have been shown to increase collagen synthesis and tensile strength. The "problem" is that meatheads automatically think that is a good thing, it is not, a repaired tendon might have more tensile strength but it is LESS elastic. Elasticity is everything when it comes to tendons, without it, you get immediate tendinopathy, even if the tendon is technically stronger from a purely tensile point of view. There is a little bit of physics to understanding this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10810035

here's one on tensile strength & wound healing, seems like quite significant improvement.

at the end they say " wound that contained more mature and densely packed collagen and was also hypercellular with oxandrolone treatment" although I'm not sure exactly what that means, better collagen synthesis/elasticity?

Have a bit of loose skin debating adding it in, but each time I've ran var before(years ago) it messed up my bloodwork pretty bad.

 

[LK3]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10810035

here's one on tensile strength & wound healing, seems like quite significant improvement.

at the end they say " wound that contained more mature and densely packed collagen and was also hypercellular with oxandrolone treatment" although I'm not sure exactly what that means, better collagen synthesis/elasticity?

Have a bit of loose skin debating adding it in, but each time I've ran var before(years ago) it messed up my bloodwork pretty bad.

wound healing shoulnt be confused with helping damaged conective tissue. soft tissue like meat muscle/fat is different.

there are some interesting things to read on var and wound healing/burn. its out there but not amazing.

also var has been shown to increase colagen synthesis by a very large amount more i think then any other aas. i think its that, nan, eq and wini but wini i think is even a lil different then the others.

the problem is what we are saying in the other posts, yes using other aas in theory to help combat the supression of collagen synthesis form test is/was an idea, the problem is while maybe the idea "works" in function it doesnt cus you end up with more soreness and more possibility of injury.

dont forget pain and weakness in these areas can also come from inflammation and improper body machanics.

adding these other aas to THAT situation might just make things even worse.

as much as it sucks there is something to be said for real time off to address this too.

 

[Hyper-T]

The oxandrolone info is out there. This document is a great resource in explaining the effect of various hormones in relation to tendons. Of particular interest is testosterone down regulating igf receptors in tendon and reducing collagen synthesis, leading to increased risk of rupture. I agree with keeping testosterone in physiological range and running anabolics higher. If testosterone is ran high, then it maybe be wise to take hgh with it, to at least help reduce injury risk.

Hormones and tendinopathies: the current evidence
British Medical Bulletin, 2016, 117:39-58

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

The oxandrolone info is out there. This document is a great resource in explaining the effect of various hormones in relation to tendons. Of particular interest is testosterone down regulating igf receptors in tendon and reducing collagen synthesis, leading to increased risk of rupture. I agree with keeping testosterone in physiological range and running anabolics higher. If testosterone is ran high, then it maybe be wise to take hgh with it, to at least help reduce injury risk.

Hormones and tendinopathies: the current evidence
British Medical Bulletin, 2016, 117:39-58

I have searched intensively and not found anything to support your claim. So either provide a reference or stop spreading hearsay bullshit.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I googled this line and the first two hits do show an increase in tensile strength, however, there is nothing about elasticity.

Many AAS have been shown to increase collagen synthesis and tensile strength. The "problem" is that meatheads automatically think that is a good thing, it is not, a repaired tendon might have more tensile strength but it is LESS elastic. Elasticity is everything when it comes to tendons, without it, you get immediate tendinopathy, even if the tendon is technically stronger from a purely tensile point of view. There is a little bit of physics to understanding this.

I feel dry on anavar. It always feels like I’m more injury prone. My body is old and f$cked though. Haha

 

[Kaladryn]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10810035

here's one on tensile strength & wound healing, seems like quite significant improvement.

at the end they say " wound that contained more mature and densely packed collagen and was also hypercellular with oxandrolone treatment" although I'm not sure exactly what that means, better collagen synthesis/elasticity?

Have a bit of loose skin debating adding it in, but each time I've ran var before(years ago) it messed up my bloodwork pretty bad.

When tendons repair, the body lays down type III collagen fibers, these fibers have close to same tensile strength as type I fibers, however, they do not have the elasticity. When too much of the tendon becomes type III fibers, the tendon has a condition called tendonosis, when you USE a tendon that has tendononis, it develops tendinitis very easily.

Therefor, things that cause rapid collagen repair can cause tendinopathy (and seem to usually).

 

[Kaladryn]

I feel dry on anavar. It always feels like I’m more injury prone. My body is old and f$cked though. Haha ��

Mine too, I hate all the DHT derived AAS pretty much. I would never take something so mild as anavar, I would just take much less of something stronger and get better results.

 

[maldorf]

I now believe consuming collagen is pretty much a waste... well it is in regards to helping joints. This is all because it's taken in orally so is processed just like beef, chicken and whey would be. Although those 3 have a much better amino acid profile so are superior. All that is happening when you take in collagen is it's broken down into it's original amino acids as they can't be absorbed otherwise. I would recommend a good whey isolate over a collagen product.

Exactly. It reminds me of the old mentality of when they used to make bodybuilding tablets from bull orchic (testicles) and even adrenal glands. Once that stuff hits the digestive system it is all broken down into building blocks like amino acids.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Summary: Collagen hydrolysate may be an effective nutritional supplement for those suffering from osteoarthritis." (excerpt from data "In March 2003, Oesser et al. demonstrated for the first time that collagen hydrolysate stimulates collagen synthesis in cartilage cells (Cell Tissue Res 311:393-399). The enrichment of a chondrocyte cell culture medium with collagen hydrolysate led to a significant, dose-dependent stimulation of collagen synthesis in cartilage cells, that was not detectable in the controls.
Studies conducted by the renowned American specialist Roland Moskowitz, MD on 389 patients in the USA, Great Britain and Germany also found a pain-relieving effect from collagen hydrolysate. The patients were able to significantly reduce their consumption of analgesics and reported an improvement in physical function.
Experimental and clinical studies have found that:
Collagen hydrolysate stimulates the synthesis of type II collagen in articular cartilage
Taking collagen hydrolysate can lead to a significant reduction in pain among osteoarthritis patients
Taking collagen hydrolysate, osteoarthritis patients may be able to reduce their consumption of analgesics
Physiological functions of the joints improve significantly

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

**broken link removed**

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.researchgate.net/public...5xSjm-wW2Sf9YNTyDzGC3G11jBAr8btyktLd0o1uPWFg0

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...rXveA71Kaynbm_ZGI0ZrxgqlFT9ZMqTppjV88RQaRUnYc