Low dose thread

[b-boy]

Aren't you the b-boy high dose abuser from 15 years ago I use to see on boards?

I've been on this board for 17yrs, easy to search my post. Just saying

 

[tokon]

So I have superior genetics? John Meadows, Dusty Hanshaw, Shelby Starnes? We are all pros and I promise you none of us listed have superior genetics.

Those aren't insults they are TRUTH, we are just some people who put in work for an extremely long time with great consistency.

All you guys might say that but the majority of people would probably disagree. Yes, I have no doubt that a lot of consistent hard work in all areas of bodybuilding has been done but your genetics will be superior to the average guy in some way i.e. tolerance to growth drugs, muscle insertations, etc.

 

[b-boy]

All you guys might say that but the majority of people would probably disagree. Yes, I have no doubt that a lot of consistent hard work in all areas of bodybuilding has been done but your genetics will be superior to the average guy in some way i.e. tolerance to growth drugs, muscle insertations, etc.

@hawkmoon destroys shelby Starnes in the genetics department...just an example of a everyday board member that destroys a PROS genetics (and sorry I dont see hawkmoon as a person with really good genetics) @Swiper destroys me and everyone i listed. I'm absolutely blown away sometime what people try and stick the "genetics excuse tag" on? When me and @BuffD sat backstage at 2005 junior nationals and chatted with Phil Heath you truly get a glimpse and true respect for the term genetics....especially SUPERIOR genetics.

 

[thethinker48]

@hawkmoon destroys shelby Starnes in the genetics department...just an example of a everyday board member that destroys a PROS genetics (and sorry I dont see hawkmoon as a person with really good genetics) @Swiper destroys me and everyone i listed. I'm absolutely blown away sometime what people try and stick the "genetics excuse tag" on? When me and @BuffD sat backstage at 2005 junior nationals and chatted with Phil Heath you truly get a glimpse and true respect for the term genetics....especially SUPERIOR genetics.

It's relative don't you think?

All the people listed have at the very least above average genetics, but then there are levels to this (ie. Kai, Phil, Michael Lockett), those are the guys we would call as elite genetics

I bet if you were natural with a youtube channel today; there would be 2 videos per week with titles "My reaction to Brad claiming natural" "Brad: Natty or Not?". And then 500 basement dwelling cheeto addicts claiming how much gear you are blasting at 170 lbs

No doubt JM, You, Shelby, Dusty probably wouldn't need to die and reincarnate in the gym every week for decades to built up areas that the freaks grew without realizing

 

[b-boy]

It's relative don't you think?

All the people listed have at the very least above average genetics, but then there are levels to this (ie. Kai, Phil, Michael Lockett), those are the guys we would call as elite genetics

I bet if you were natural with a youtube channel today; there would be 2 videos per week with titles "My reaction to Brad claiming natural" "Brad: Natty or Not?". And then 500 basement dwelling cheeto addicts claiming how much gear you are blasting at 170 lbs

No doubt JM, You, Shelby, Dusty probably wouldn't need to die and reincarnate in the gym every week for decades to built up areas that the freaks grew without realizing

What type of genetics do you have, you think shelby Starnes has better genetics than you? Than little slice? Than hundreds of other members here? I love using shelby against all those that cry genetics, shelby has the genetics of Erkel but is way smarter than 99.9% of you guys and has a vicious work ethic that would bury many of you, that is way he went so far in bodybuilding...cause he is an intelligent, hard working, motherfucker!

 

[thethinker48]

What type of genetics do you have, you think shelby Starnes has better genetics than you? Than little slice? Than hundreds of other members here? I love using shelby against all those that cry genetics, shelby has the genetics of Erkel but is way smarter than 99.9% of you guys and has a vicious work ethic that would bury many of you, that is way he went so far in bodybuilding...cause he is an intelligent, hard working, motherfucker!

My post wasn't meant as an attack, just a thought

I agree Shelby is, and has always been a persistent man, and definitely someone who has earned his right to that pro card. Most wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of grind for years upon years to get to where he got. And his clients are also a great example of that

 

[b-boy]

My post wasn't meant as an attack, just a thought

I agree Shelby is, and has always been a persistent man, and definitely someone who has earned his right to that pro card. Most wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of grind for years upon years to get to where he got. And his clients are also a great example of that

I did not take your post as an attack. I am curious to know what top of genetics do you think you have, if you believe that Shelby, myself, John Meadows, or Dusty have "superior" or even advanced genetics im curious where you place yourself on the genetics plane? Thats all, I apologize if you thought i attacked you, im just curious of your thoughts process when it comes to genetics.

 

[b-boy]

This guy meshack has fucking genetics, formal universe champion. This is my idea of good/above average genetics. Phil Heather, Shawn Ray, Brandon Curry would be Elite/superior genetics. This guy has competed in several drug tested shows, if he isn't natural i can promise he falls under this thread title of lowdose and yes he is extremely short.

 

[Sides]

What type of genetics do you have, you think shelby Starnes has better genetics than you? Than little slice? Than hundreds of other members here? I love using shelby against all those that cry genetics, shelby has the genetics of Erkel but is way smarter than 99.9% of you guys and has a vicious work ethic that would bury many of you, that is way he went so far in bodybuilding...cause he is an intelligent, hard working, motherfucker!

Nobody is knocking you at all. You clearly have a tremendous work ethic, and you approach all aspects of training, nutrition, and recuperation with a great deal of intelligence, forethought, and planning. The same for the other guys you mentioned as examples. Much respect to all of you.

But to reach the elite level of any sport, you have to have the genetic predisposition to get there. Humans are like any other animal, say for instance breeds of dogs. You have chihuahuas, golden retrievers, Great Danes, pit bulls, etc. You can train, feed, rest, and give PED's to the chihuahua as much and as intelligently as you want, and you will turn him into a bigger, stronger, leaner chihuahua. But you are never going to turn him into a pit bull or Great Dane.

My stepson is a freshman in college, 6'4", and maybe 150 lbs soaking wet. He's a good kid. But no matter how hard he trains, or how much he eats, or what drugs he uses (hopefully none ever), he is never going to be an IFBB pro. And that's OK.

I have trained viciously hard and consistently for 35 years now, ate as well as I could, used way too many drugs, eventually pushed myself past the point of too many injuries. But although I became a big, strong, muscular guy, deadlifted 600 lbs, weighed 235 lbs competing on stage as a bodybuilder in the NPC, I never got beyond the state level, and was blown away by much smaller guys who had much better genetics and aesthetics than I did. And they deserved to win, because they were better than me. Did they train, eat, sleep harder than me? Maybe, but I can't imagine it. I really put my heart, soul, and everything I had into it, believe me when I tell you that. Maybe it wasn't enough, but it was everything I had.

The same is true for the NFL, MLB, Olympic athletes, or any sport. Of all the millions of boys playing high school football (at least before COVID), some work very hard and intelligently, although most don't. But very few have the potential to go on to play in college, much less a D1 school, and even fewer to go on to the semi-pros and professional level. And even fewer can have a career in the NFL, or go on to be a legend and in the Hall of Fame.

Hard work beats genetics, when genetics doesn't work hard. If someone has neither, they will get nowhere. But put the two together, and that's where the magic happens.

And then of course you have the true genetic freaks like Paul Dillett, who can get almost to the top without ever seeming to work that hard. But freaks like that are few and far between.

Your hard work, drive, and intelligence are all commendable. You should be justifiably proud of all those qualities. But you also had to at least have a certain genetic disposition, or at least pass certain thresholds, to get where you are. That was the key to unlock the door. But all the rest, the hard work and consistency over decades, that was all up to you, and that took you to where you are today. And you should be proud of that.

Just my opinion, and meant with the utmost respect for your accomplishments.

 

[b-boy]

You guys do realize that me, Shelby, and John turned pro in a masters class against other guys in our age bracket not in the open classes of the north Americans, USA's, or Nationals? If we had good genetics we would have turned pro in those open classes.

 

[muscle96ss]

You guys do realize that me, Shelby, and John turned pro in a masters class against other guys in our age bracket not in the open classes of the north Americans, USA's, or Nationals? If we had good genetics we would have turned pro in those open classes.

I think what some people are saying here is that if everyone had the same time, commitment, work ethic, etc.. as you do; most would never look as good as you. There are different levels of "superior" genetics and those that have them have trouble relating to those that don't.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

My lowest was 10 mgs, actually I've done 5 before, for a couple weeks and months 10 mgs

I've also done 10 mgs one day and 20 another day

Currently on 20 mgs a day and like this better than 10 mgs

 

[b-boy]

For you guys taking 10-20mg daily of test, how do you feel? How is your sex drive? Do you feel that you recover well from your workouts?

 

[thethinker48]

I did not take your post as an attack. I am curious to know what top of genetics do you think you have, if you believe that Shelby, myself, John Meadows, or Dusty have "superior" or even advanced genetics im curious where you place yourself on the genetics plane? Thats all, I apologize if you thought i attacked you, im just curious of your thoughts process when it comes to genetics.

No worries, it's impossible to identify tone of posts on here so I want to make I don't come across as unnecessarily hostile to others

I'll preface this with saying that this is just my opinion

I think we are getting lost in the specific terms like "superior" rather than talking about certain predispositions people have. The photo that you posted of yourself as a natural blows most enhanced physiques on here out of the water; you've mentioned the early steroid accusations that started when you were younger.

Dusty has a tremendous ability to tolerate loads that would break most people. Do I think the 10+ year grueling logbook mentality has greatly contributed to that strength? Absolutely, but so has his skeletal structure that is able to handle that kind of poundage over long periods of time. Dusty has another ability that's overlooked that he's admitted to multiple times; his ability to hold large amounts of muscle tissue. 280+ lbs in decent condition on 200 mgs of testosterone, Dante shared this a while back, but never explicitly stated it was Dusty. People can go look at those posts, and I hope it's ok to put this out there. He's talked about having decent bloodwork on things where it shouldn't be decent. These are the things that makes him above average in my opinion.

John squatted 500 lbs in high school, he had tremendous legs as a teenager, and won all of his regional shows pretty easily. It's when he got to the national level against the top dogs is where he had to struggle. John like you, Shelby, Dusty comes from the old school mindset of suffering, the obstacle is the way, and you just trudge forward. It's how he's been able to make progress in his 40s, and figure out ways to grow past the traditional methods employed by everybody.

Everything you've said about Shelby is spot on, and there is nothing I can say otherwise about that. There are members on here with better genetics than him, but Shelby over a long period of time has willed himself to get to where he got. But on any given year, one competitor with the right DNA can take that away from anyone on a similar path.

As for myself; I am a nobody. Just an anonymous face on a message board. You guys are professionals who have stepped on stage for more years than I've been alive probably. I graduated high school at a 118 lbs, my father was 5'2 130 lbs most of his adult life. My male cousins are 120-130 lbs. I've log booked, eaten well, understood basic pharmacology, and been consistent enough to get to the 190-200 lb range while maintaining my health at 5'7. My genetic predispositions for CAD, high BP, diabetes, CKD are comparable to a top guy's ability to build muscle. I've posted pics here before; again nobody special.

I don't think any of this discounts the amount of work you've put in to get to where you are. You are an intelligent, extremely driven guy who's managed to make the best of his physique by constantly learning, adapting, and being consistent over decades to become the competitor you have. All that work has amplified your strong points, and you most certainly have some.

The one thing I'll add here is that most people DO NOT have any idea what their genetics are until they put an x amount of time and effort into this. Most guys can and will get much further than they think with a ravenous drive to improve that the individuals mentioned about have. But that might not be enough for them to become a pro, and certainly not enough to succeed as one.

Just my thoughts

 

[chopsuey]

@hawkmoon destroys shelby Starnes in the genetics department...just an example of a everyday board member that destroys a PROS genetics (and sorry I dont see hawkmoon as a person with really good genetics) @Swiper destroys me and everyone i listed. I'm absolutely blown away sometime what people try and stick the "genetics excuse tag" on? When me and @BuffD sat backstage at 2005 junior nationals and chatted with Phil Heath you truly get a glimpse and true respect for the term genetics....especially SUPERIOR genetics.

Yeah I remember reading one of Swiper's old threads on another board and when asked about his diet his response was along the lines "i don't know, never count calories, subway for lunch and coco puffs before bed" had to double back and check I was reading the same persons diet with matching picture, crazy how jacked he is on that lol

 

[USMuscle9403]

I think what some people are saying here is that if everyone had the same time, commitment, work ethic, etc.. as you do; most would never look as good as you. There are different levels of "superior" genetics and those that have them have trouble relating to those that don't.

Yea I was just about to type this. Lol Brad, dude, you've posted pics of you at 19 on here, you don't think you have awesome genetics compared to the average guy? Who the fuck else looks like that at 19? Lol no one is trying to take anything away from anyone saying they have good genetics. Hell, I have good genetics compared to some and realize that yes, indeed, some things come a bit easier to me. You're a fuckin hard ass worker, no shit, just like Meadows and Starnes. Meadows and I probably have fairly similar genetics, actually, dem short, stout, damned near gorilla-like wide waisted white boy genetics lol - you clearly have better genetics than us both. That's not an ego hit to me, it's just being honest...

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

For you guys taking 10-20mg daily of test, how do you feel? How is your sex drive? Do you feel that you recover well from your workouts?

sex drive is okay, I take finasteride which may lower it some , for the most part when im with my girlfriend Cialis works

I recover decently, I dont push things at this dose like intensity techniques, training partners spotting on heavy negatives, forced reps, or rest pause, going past the red line of failure. I either go shy of failure , or to failure at the most. I still train intense I will do stuff like one arm at a time using my left arm to help positive and controlling on negative, like on arms or maybe shoulders, and using same technique on calves one calve at a time

generally though intensity is lessened

 

[danieltx]

Dusty has a tremendous ability to tolerate loads that would break most people. Do I think the 10+ year grueling logbook mentality has greatly contributed to that strength? Absolutely, but so has his skeletal structure that is able to handle that kind of poundage over long periods of time. Dusty has another ability that's overlooked that he's admitted to multiple times; his ability to hold large amounts of muscle tissue. 280+ lbs in decent condition on 200 mgs of testosterone, Dante shared this a while back, but never explicitly stated it was Dusty. People can go look at those posts, and I hope it's ok to put this out there. He's talked about having decent bloodwork on things where it shouldn't be decent. These are the things that makes him above average in my opinion.

People tend to think of 'genetics' as muscle insertions, roundness, small waist, etc., but that's only 1 part of it. The tolerance for side effects, resiliency of the body, resistance to injury, etc. are also 'genetics', and they're what let guys that may not have the most aesthetic physiques reach high levels in bodybuilding.

I don't think of my physique as being genetically superior - yes my legs are great for a tall guy and my shoulders were always a strong point before training, but I have long arms that are only 18" at 275lbs., I could maybe squeeze into a 32-33 waist jeans at 5% body fat, etc. But I've never had anything more than a minor tweak despite the heavy weights I use; I've never had gyno; I have a head full of thick, long hair; I had CBC and CMP in August at the height of my blast at 265lbs. and the only thing off was liver enzymes which I expected since I had a grueling workout the day before (unplanned doctor visit to get a hematoma drained). The doctor even commented on how good my hemoglobin / hematocrit was.

The one thing I'll add here is that most people DO NOT have any idea what their genetics are until they put an x amount of time and effort into this. Most guys can and will get much further than they think with a ravenous drive to improve that the individuals mentioned about have. But that might not be enough for them to become a pro, and certainly not enough to succeed as one.

Totally agree. The first time I got lean was in 2010, before I even knew what I was doing in the gym, and I was maybe 12% at 166lbs. After figuring the gym out, a few years of powerlifting, and about 5 years of bodybuilding, I weigh 275lbs. at less than 12% - over 100lbs. gained. I saw guys that looked like this when I started out and wanted to be like them but didn't think it was possible. But that didn't discourage me - I kept my head down, kept working hard, kept learning, kept progressing, and all these years later I'm that guy the young kids in the gym look at and ask advice of.

As you said, most guys just don't have the ravenous drive to keep working at this for so long. I don't have any secrets - I take the same stuff everyone else does, I eat the same foods, etc. I just want to keep improving so bad that I have machine-like consistency every day, and years of that is what builds great physiques for anyone - good genetics or bad.

 

[buck]

From my reading of the word and it's definition. Above average is superior. While I never won any real show, I would say my genetics for building muscle was above average. As I put on 40+ pounds of muscle and lost more fat then that in my first 3 years of training without using any PEDS. I had all my food in there containers ready to go and my routines planned out before I stepped foot in the gym. And managed to compete as a light heavy at 5"7 on a good day with shoes on. Some one that is born with more muscle fibers ,the agility to digest food better etc. has the advantage. There are many things that can lead to being able to grow muscle better then average. To think an average guy will get to pro standards with just hard work and consistency just does not seem likely to me. As I think an above average or superior genetics person working at 90% would probably still beat an average guy who does everything 100%.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yea I was just about to type this. Lol Brad, dude, you've posted pics of you at 19 on here, you don't think you have awesome genetics compared to the average guy? Who the fuck else looks like that at 19? Lol no one is trying to take anything away from anyone saying they have good genetics. Hell, I have good genetics compared to some and realize that yes, indeed, some things come a bit easier to me. You're a fuckin hard ass worker, no shit, just like Meadows and Starnes. Meadows and I probably have fairly similar genetics, actually, dem short, stout, damned near gorilla-like wide waisted white boy genetics lol - you clearly have better genetics than us both. That's not an ego hit to me, it's just being honest...

I am going to bed but I wanted to comment. As explained in the last few posts genetics can mean so many different things. There are also different levels to this. I have read the forums for years and I have seen the approaches and many pics/videos of some of the guys listed. It doesn't take away from someone's hard work if they have good genetics so it's by no means an insult. BBoy posted his pic at 19 years old and he stated he was natural. There are many guys who could take alsorts of drugs and train hard for years who could never look that good bodybuilding wise. They could get bigger and even leaner but they wouldn't be beating him on a bodybuilding stage on grams of gear and years of brutal training and good nutrition. I consider BBoy to have fantastic genetics compared to an average male for a bodybuilding stage. Now Bboy's genetics compared to Phil Heath are miles apart... there are levels to this. Phil Heath to the average guy well that is laughable.

I would probably state Shelby... Dusty... Meadows... Bboy. Although as stated above Dusty has great genetics in various elements but to look good on stage I think Meadows edges him. I have seen pics of Meadows when he was young etc. Overall those 2 are very close and of course Dusty is much bigger but I am just comparing in regards to a bodybuilding stage and not who looks the most "impressive" in person. Shelby has average (even bad) genetics and he done great to turn pro and that was all hard work, great nutrition and determination.

Bboy you're great and you could state you trained like an animal from the age of 12 so sure that comes into the equation but there aren't many 19 year olds who could look like that... nevermind natural. For some guys gains just come really fast and whilst they still may have a lower ceiling limit than some it's apparent when seeing them progress. I have trained with guys who could never look amazing no matter what they done and others who eat shit and look great.

My genetics... for bodybuilding I have terrible genetics. I am tall, long limbed and have wide hips and abuse myself in the gym for minimal gains in some areas. For looking good on a beach I probably have great genetics... I am tall, naturally very lean etc. Although I have pics of me very young and you guys would laugh. I was so skinny and I ate loads but could never put on weight no matter what I done. I was the skinniest of all my friends but I had an indented 6 pack at 16.

Over the last few years I have pics lean and my waist looks small but I am much wider than I probably appear because my waist is probably 35-36 inches when ripped. When I bulk and I have a 6 pack probably a 40 inch waist. I also have very long legs. So horrible genetics for bodybuilding. I am not hard on myself either just a realist and honest. In fact when I was at my biggest I think I would make many pro's look small if stood next to them (in a vest or shirt) but for a bodybuilding show I would get destroyed. I would get destroyed at a regional bb show nevermind by any pro that has ever existed