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19-Nor Compounds and HGH --> IGF Conversion

sub7percent

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I've been reading here and there on this forum members post regarding the relationship between compounds like trenbolone and nandrolone and decreased IGF conversion. Haven't really read anything explaining why this may happen. Any thoughts here? I have some NPP I wanted to run with my next blast but am concerned of the potential for it to interact poorly with the 5iu daily HGH and MK677 I will be running.



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80aum

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I would expect increases with the use of both 19nors and even more with HGH not the opposite.
 

TheOtherOne55

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I'd go read the HGH Testing thread in the Sponsors section.
Lots of good info on there.

And personally, I know several guys who have run Tren/Deca or NPP cycles and their IGF numbers drop significantly. The thread has some good theories though as to why. The one interesting thing is though MOST of the guys who had the low low IGF numbers STILL had good results from the GH (placebo maybe??)
 

sub7percent

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I'd go read the HGH Testing thread in the Sponsors section.

Lots of good info on there.



And personally, I know several guys who have run Tren/Deca or NPP cycles and their IGF numbers drop significantly. The thread has some good theories though as to why. The one interesting thing is though MOST of the guys who had the low low IGF numbers STILL had good results from the GH (placebo maybe??)



Yea that's the first place I had read about it but then started hearing others suggest tren and deca could have a negative impact on IGF levels (at least as shown in blood work).

In the HGH testing thread buck1973 was showing decreased results once he started running tren/deca/mast, however you will also see a substantial increase in liver enzymes. One of the preliminary questions I would have would be whether the negative impact is strictly due to liver enzyme increase (not specific to 19-nor compounds) or due to something specific to 19-nor compounds outside of any liver enzyme increase.




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swoleup57

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I too am curious. I was on 5iu daily gh while running a fairly long test/deca cycle. My blood work showed lower igf numbers but results still seemed to be there physically.
So I too have come to a suspicion that 19-Nors do effect igf numbers.
Now does it truly effect the igf numbers or perhaps only masks it in blood work?
And yes hgh was legit. It was Meditropes.
 

musclemoose

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I too am curious. I was on 5iu daily gh while running a fairly long test/deca cycle. My blood work showed lower igf numbers but results still seemed to be there physically.
So I too have come to a suspicion that 19-Nors do effect igf numbers.
Now does it truly effect the igf numbers or perhaps only masks it in blood work?
And yes hgh was legit. It was Meditropes.

I would think whatever your IGF-1 is in your bloodwork is in fact just that. I cant see how the compound would mask the #. Ive seen people post blood work where tren and deca throw off high test #s and i can understand that because a 19-nortestosterone (19-nor) anabolic androgenic steroid refers to a structural change of the testosterone hormone in that it lacks a carbon atom at the 19th position. So if its structurally similar to testosterone than i can see it throwing off blood work with regards to labs testing testosterone levels. My advice is dont run tren or deca while on HGH. Plenty of other wonderful compounds out there that wont interfere with IGF-1 levels.
 
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kinglewy

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Best I ever looked was 10iu Mexi Blacks with test prop/ tren ace/ and mast prop/ little winny pre wo

Never did bloods on that but even if the IGF was low it did not stop the growth from doing it's thing....I eventually could not afford to run the growth any longer but continued the other anabolics....the "look" was not the same....shoulders were not as round, traps didn't peak as high and I definitely could no longer eat anything I wanted

so I have a feeling the gh does it's thing even when igf tests dont test as high as they should
 

johnjuanb1

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Seeing the blood work that shows low IGF1 from tren and HGH had me hesitant to mix them but I’m growing faster than ever in my life plus simultaneously losing body fat right now on HGH, insulin, tren, deca, npp, sustanon, test prop, primobolan, T4, and MK-677. Yes, I like to stack a lot of drugs! My total AAS dose is only 1,225mg/week. HGH is 5-10ius a day. Insulin is 10 units per day.
 

RamboStallone

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I'd go read the HGH Testing thread in the Sponsors section.
Lots of good info on there.

And personally, I know several guys who have run Tren/Deca or NPP cycles and their IGF numbers drop significantly. The thread has some good theories though as to why. The one interesting thing is though MOST of the guys who had the low low IGF numbers STILL had good results from the GH (placebo maybe??)
Not placebo, more like false readings or something along those lines. They mess with estrogen values too but in reality the more sensitive estrogen tests capture the values more accurately. I had both on one lab test before, completely different numbers. My guess is those drugs throw off something with the testing that causes these false readings.
 

RamboStallone

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I would think whatever your IGF-1 is in your bloodwork is in fact just that. I cant see how the compound would mask the #. Ive seen people post blood work where tren and deca throw off high test #s and i can understand that because a 19-nortestosterone (19-nor) anabolic androgenic steroid refers to a structural change of the testosterone hormone in that it lacks a carbon atom at the 19th position. So if its structurally similar to testosterone than i can see it throwing off blood work with regards to labs testing testosterone levels. My advice is dont run tren or deca while on HGH. Plenty of other wonderful compounds out there that wont interfere with IGF-1 levels.
It depends on the sensitivity of the testing, they for sure can give false indications. Tren does this with estrogen all the time,,, guys end up taking a bunch of letro thinking their estro is high and it's just a false reading. The results are only as good as the test method.
 

80aum

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Not humans but quite an increase.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...hers-and-the-Longissimus-Muscle-of-Steers.pdf


ABSTRACT: Treatment of lambs (initial BW 28 k g ) for 24 d with a combined implant containing 40 mg of trenbolone acetate ( T B A ) and 8 mg of estradiol (E2) increased ADG 25% (P < .05, n = 8) and feed efficiency 23% ( P < .05, n = 2 ) compared with unimplanted lambs. By d 3 following implantation, sera from wethers implanted with TBA + E2 showed 32% (307 vs 233 ng/mL) increases ( P < .001, n = 8) in IGF-I concentration compared with sera from unim- planted wethers. This increase was maintained throughout the entire 24-d study. Steady-state hepatic IGF-I mRNA levels were increased approximately 150% in implanted lambs compared with unimplanted

lambs ( P < .05, n = 4). These data suggest that liver may be the source of at least part of the increased circulating IGF-I in TBA + E2-implanted sheep. In steers implanted with Revalor-S ( 1 2 0 mg of TBA and 24 mg of E2) for 40 d, the steady-state concentration of IGF-I mRNA in the longissimus muscle was 68% greater than in the longissimus muscle of unim- planted steers ( P = .013, n = 4 ) . Consequently, increased local production of IGF-I by muscle tissue may play a role in increasing circulating IGF-I concentrations as well as an autocrine or paracrine role in stimulating muscle growth in steers implanted with Revalor-S.
Key Words: Insulin-like Growth Factor I, Trenbolone, Estradiol, Muscles, Liver
1998 American Society of Animal Science. All rights reserved. J. Anim. Sci. 1998. 76:491–497
 

buck1973

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Yea that's the first place I had read about it but then started hearing others suggest tren and deca could have a negative impact on IGF levels (at least as shown in blood work).

In the HGH testing thread buck1973 was showing decreased results once he started running tren/deca/mast, however you will also see a substantial increase in liver enzymes. One of the preliminary questions I would have would be whether the negative impact is strictly due to liver enzyme increase (not specific to 19-nor compounds) or due to something specific to 19-nor compounds outside of any liver enzyme increase.




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My testin shows not so much that the high liver enzynes cause the lowered IGF-1 results but rather the compounds them self's.

Sometimes my enzymes were sky high others just double or so the uper limits the IGF-1 results still suffered greatly...
So whether the 19 nors themselves are doing it or they are maskin or messin with the testing result as suggested I have not a clue....
I b willin to test this if there is a way to do so..
I just got off all this week and will clean out I will begin HGH shortly and will resume IGF-1 testin soon after that.
One thing to keep in mind is that this does not show in everyone. Not my xperience but its been reported from others
That to me kinda rules out the test is flawed or fooled...
 

thewizkid

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I had my highest igf-1 levels on tren, npp, test
so I doubt they do
 

musclemoose

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It depends on the sensitivity of the testing, they for sure can give false indications. Tren does this with estrogen all the time,,, guys end up taking a bunch of letro thinking their estro is high and it's just a false reading. The results are only as good as the test method.

Actually Rambo you were the one that convinced me way back when that Deca and Tren could throw off test and estro levels when getting cheap labs done. And i get that because of the structural similarities of those compounds to testosterone. But I would think it would be different with IGF-1 production. But what do i know.
 

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