Anavar in offseason your opinion

[Biggerp73]

My 100.00 dollar challenge still stands, go on Instagram and tell him he is wrong. I put my money saying Victor makes a complete and utter fool of you.
The only downside to that is then he will Lump everyone on professionalmuscle in the same group as a bunch of idiots (which he tends to do).

And what will be the determining factor that proves he has been refuted? Are you expecting him to admit he was wrong? Are you going to keep saying he has never been wrong as long as he keeps stringing together semi-coherent arguments in self-defense?

 

[b-boy]

And what will be the determining factor that proves he has been refuted? Are you expecting him to admit he was wrong? Are you going to keep saying he has never been wrong as long as he keeps stringing together semi-coherent arguments in self-defense?

If you post the study that disproves what he is saying then you win, I will go on Instagram and do him like he does people and keep tagging him and posting about how he was proven wrong! I will contact various podcast generating people like nic strength and power and others who Vic has talked about that would love the content of his claim to fame (never been wrong) destroyed. (Nothing that Victor himself doesn't already do to people).
Anyways this is a useless conversation as I am about % confident you don't have the balls to call him out on his error and tag him at instagram. So this is all backwards talking. No one from this board is going to challenge his claims.
Since he loves @homonunculus if Victor was dead wrong on something maybe Dr Stevenson would be the one to disprove him (hopefully)

 

[Biggerp73]

If you post the study that disproves what he is saying then you win, I will go on Instagram and do him like he does people and keep tagging him and posting about how he was proven wrong! I will contact various podcast generating people like nic strength and power and others who Vic has talked about that would love the content of his claim to fame (never been wrong) destroyed. (Nothing that Victor himself doesn't already do to people).
Anyways this is a useless conversation as I am about % confident you don't have the balls to call him out on his error and tag him at instagram. So this is all backwards talking. No one from this board is going to challenge his claims.
Since he loves @homonunculus if Victor was dead wrong on something maybe Dr Stevenson would be the one to disprove him (hopefully)

Mufasa referenced this post from Type-II..

Thread 'Primo: science/broscience thread... assessment of strengths/weaknesses' https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...ad-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/primo-science-broscience-thread-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

"Building upon that foundation, here is a graph from a 1965 study [1] which analyzed various AAS under strictly controlled conditions-- specifically Primo, Deca, Dbol, Anadur (nandrolone hexylphenylpropionate, a 21-day half life form of nandrolone), and Androxan (oral similar to androstanozole). It is a very strong study design that studied the human effects of the compared AAS under precisely manipulable conditions (»). That is, patients were tube-fed, immobilized, and the researchers could tease out the anabolic effects of the AAS studied with dietary manipulation (protein and caloric intake were manipulated) precision:



Primo-vs-Deca-Nitrogen-retention-1.png



In one patient (Case 1) a 100mg bolus of Primo was administered resulting in an uncomplicated 16 day positive nitrogen balance with a total nitrogen retention of 30.8g [1] on a caloric surplus (55%>BMR) and protein intake of 1.65 g/kg b.w. See Figure 1(N) [above].



This basically matched the nitrogen retention of a woman on an equivalent caloric and protein diet (45%>BMR), 1.5 g/kg b.w (30.6 g, 18 day positive nitrogen balance) [1].



The following Table shows that Primo at 100mg increased lean tissue by about 1/2 the amount as 50mg (!) of Deca:



Primo-vs-Deca-and-orals-lean-mass-Table.png





____________

References:

[1] Saarne, A., Bjerstaf, L., & Ekman, B. (1965). Studies on the Nitrogen Balance in the Human during Long-term Treatment with Different Anabolic Agents under Strictly Standardized Conditions. Acta Medica Scandinavica, 177(2), 199–211. doi:10.1111/j.0954-6820.1965.tb01822.x

[2] Czesla, M., Mehlhorn, G., Fritzsche, D., & Asmussen, G. (1997). Cardiomyoplasty — Improvement of Muscle Fibre Type Transformation by an Anabolic Steroid (Metenolone). Journal of Molecular and Cellular Cardiology, 29(11), 2989–2996. doi:10.1006/jmcc.1997.0543"

 

[b-boy]

Mufasa referenced this post from Type-II..

Thread 'Primo: science/broscience thread... assessment of strengths/weaknesses' https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...ad-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/primo-science-broscience-thread-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

"Building upon that foundation, here is a graph from a 1965 study [1] which analyzed various AAS under strictly controlled conditions-- specifically Primo, Deca, Dbol, Anadur (nandrolone hexylphenylpropionate, a 21-day half life form of nandrolone), and Androxan (oral similar to androstanozole). It is a very strong study design that studied the human effects of the compared AAS under precisely manipulable conditions (»). That is, patients were tube-fed, immobilized, and the researchers could tease out the anabolic effects of the AAS studied with dietary manipulation (protein and caloric intake were manipulated) precision:



Primo-vs-Deca-Nitrogen-retention-1.pngView attachment 190700



In one patient (Case 1) a 100mg bolus of Primo was administered resulting in an uncomplicated 16 day positive nitrogen balance with a total nitrogen retention of 30.8g [1] on a caloric surplus (55%>BMR) and protein intake of 1.65 g/kg b.w. See Figure 1(N) [above].



This basically matched the nitrogen retention of a woman on an equivalent caloric and protein diet (45%>BMR), 1.5 g/kg b.w (30.6 g, 18 day positive nitrogen balance) [1].



The following Table shows that Primo at 100mg increased lean tissue by about 1/2 the amount as 50mg (!) of Deca:



Primo-vs-Deca-and-orals-lean-mass-Table.pngView attachment 190701





____________

References:

[1] Saarne, A., Bjerstaf, L., & Ekman, B. (1965). Studies on the Nitrogen Balance in the Human during Long-term Treatment with Different Anabolic Agents under Strictly Standardized Conditions. Acta Medica Scandinavica, 177(2), 199–211. doi:10.1111/j.0954-6820.1965.tb01822.x

[2] Czesla, M., Mehlhorn, G., Fritzsche, D., & Asmussen, G. (1997). Cardiomyoplasty — Improvement of Muscle Fibre Type Transformation by an Anabolic Steroid (Metenolone). Journal of Molecular and Cellular Cardiology, 29(11), 2989–2996. doi:10.1006/jmcc.1997.0543"

So what claim are you wanting to dispute with this study?
That all anabolics "accrete" protein at basically the same rate?
Do you even understand what he is claiming? He never said that 200mg of deca wouldn't build more muscle than 200mg of primo. There are other characteristics of each drug that cause them to have different properties and outcomes, like the aromatization to estrogen and other various things.

 

[b-boy]

but all steroids accrete protein the same way. Some have secondary characteristics that give them the nod at certain times over others .. but all build tissue.. anavar is no different .. it can be used in off season and is very nice for adding a bit of strength. . I wouldn't run it for long periods as it has a harsh effect for some in regards to lipids etc.. but overall a good all around compound

Why do people make this so complicated?

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I just have to add that those easily able to prove him wrong (more than a handful with deep knowledge on the matter and not cherry picking studies to sound smart and unique) would absolutely turn off the $100 offer simply because spending all the time it'd take arguing with someone so stubborn and obtuse (either because he's actually so stubborn and obtuse or because he needs to uphold the character he created with his "exclusive brainwaves") it's not worth the headache.
That being said, I couldn't personally care less if someone likes him.

All the tastes are ok as long as they don't necessarily have to pass through my mouth.

What a uniquely disgusting way to phrase that

 

[Biggerp73]

So what claim are you wanting to dispute with this study?
That all anabolics "accrete" protein at basically the same rate?
Do you even understand what he is claiming? He never said that 200mg of deca wouldn't build more muscle than 200mg of primo. There are other characteristics of each drug that cause them to have different properties and outcomes, like the aromatization to estrogen and other various things.

Muscle growth is protein accretion. Estrogen effects hypertrophy through pathways like IGF-1 mediated growth for the sole reason that those pathways effect net protein balance, ie, net protein accrual, ie, muscle growth.

The study I just shared shows two graphs that depict different rates of nitrogen retention. Nitrogen retention is a measure of protein accretion.

 

[LATS]

Why do people make this so complicated?

Amen brutha..

 

[pistonpump]

I don't get it what's this obsession with Victor black smh fuck that guy! His claim is all steroids increase protein synthesis the same thus build muscle at the same rate? Anyone with some smarts knows that's not true. Idc what he says it simply is not true. Am I going to prove him wrong? No, for what? What would that gain? Steroids were made different for different reasons so to say they all build the same sounds retarded AF!

 

[Biggerp73]

I don't get it what's this obsession with Victor black smh fuck that guy! His claim is all steroids increase protein synthesis the same thus build muscle at the same rate? Anyone with some smarts knows that's not true. Idc what he says it simply is not true. Am I going to prove him wrong? No, for what? What would that gain? Steroids were made different for different reasons so to say they all build the same sounds retarded AF!

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/victor-black.167870/post-2956330

Yeah, he claims every steroid makes you grow the same speed.

Theres probably a solitary study out there that had those results and he has just ran with it despite everything he has seen and experienced which tells him otherwise

I imagine in people with severe wasting or similar conditions might not have additional benefits from stronger versions of steroids given even the weakest steroid is probably going to maximize their growth potential

But we all know that in regular people different steroids have different effects

It's not even plausible that two steroids which have significant differences in regards to every other single mechanism they effect would for some reason just be identical with regards muscle growth

 

[Cerberus777]

It makes sence, and from my experience and others I know it's more about the milligrams than the compound. Granted tren I've seen build in a slight calorie deficit. But the biggest difference is the other sides both good and bad that make some difference between the compounds.

 

[MouthBreather1982]

Anavar is actually the only oral that I would recommend using in the offseason - it is 100% metabolized in the kidneys, not the liver, it does not cause problems with appetite, is low-toxic, gives huge strength gains and can be used for a relatively long time if necessary.

50-100mg is a good dose depending on your weight, if you are over 110kg I would use closer to 100mg

Are the kidneys less affected? I ask because kidneys scare me much more then liver

 

[MouthBreather1982]

Some of you guys get heartburn from orals because you’re stacking them with Cialis. Do not stack orals with Cialis and see if that helps with heartburn. Also, sourcing your orals is important. Certain labs put cheap fillers in them which can cause digestive issues.

I was thinking the later night be the case, I don't think platinums tbol ever have be a huge stomach, but others have made me lol pregnant with abs.

 

[Biggerp73]

So what claim are you wanting to dispute with this study?
That all anabolics "accrete" protein at basically the same rate?
Do you even understand what he is claiming? He never said that 200mg of deca wouldn't build more muscle than 200mg of primo. There are other characteristics of each drug that cause them to have different properties and outcomes, like the aromatization to estrogen and other various things.

Here's another study showing different rates of protein accretion for different steroids

 

[Biggerp73]

Another study ....



"The mean daily nitrogen retaining
activities of 50 mg of Anadur and Deca-
Durabolin, respectively, were found to be
equal. Anadur, however, produced a
longer lasting effect. The total amount
of nitrogen retained during a period of
positive nitrogen balance was therefore
higher.
Deca-Durabolin at a dosage of 25 mg
produced a considerably lower effect,
and 100 mg of Primobolan-Depot show-
ed a somewhat lower mean nitrogen re-
taining activity per day than did 50 mg
of Deca-Durabolin and Anadur, re-
spectively."

 

[Oldwhitedude]

If we disregard the studies for a second, does the board agree that masteron creates the same amount of muscle all things equal as test or deca?

Let's speak from experience here, not conjecture or science.

 

[juiceball44]

If we disregard the studies for a second, does the board agree that masteron creates the same amount of muscle all things equal as test or deca?

Let's speak from experience here, not conjecture or science.

Not even close imo, mast dries me out, I get flat and weight drops as soon as I add it in. Test and deca I’m full and weight always increasing

 

[gains4000]

If we disregard the studies for a second, does the board agree that masteron creates the same amount of muscle all things equal as test or deca?

Let's speak from experience here, not conjecture or science.

Masteron does not build muscle like nandrolone. They have two totally different purposes. Masteron is a pure androgen and deca is a pure anabolic.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Not even close imo, mast dries me out, I get flat and weight drops as soon as I add it in. Test and deca I’m full and weight always increasing

Masteron does not build muscle like nandrolone. They have two totally different purposes. Masteron is a pure androgen and deca is a pure anabolic.

Yep and this is my point. There are studies and then there is reality.

If the studies don't match reality, we need to question the studies and not the reality.

 

[Biggerp73]

Yep and this is my point. There are studies and then there is reality.

If the studies don't match reality, we need to question the studies and not the reality.

The point is actually that the studies do match reality

Victor Black made a claim that no studies indicate different steroids grow muscles (ie "accrete protein" at different rates

But months ago Type-II had posted a study showing that different steroids do cause different rates of growth , and a week or so ago the subject came up again, so I went on my university library website and requested access to a couple more studies on the subject. They showed up for me so I posted them today.