Another BALDNAZI case...here's my story

[littlemack]

Thanks Lats..And Tell Your Friend Thanks As Well...

I'm taking notes...

 

[abadseal]

Good god dude that's horrible. I'm a year younger than you and couldn't imagine hearing your liver might have problems. Mad credit for posting your story and for opening my eyes and a lot of other guys' on here. If reading that doesn't make you contemplate using gear or at least using as safely as possible then I don't know what will. Thanks again.

 

[Jerkyboy]

HELLA SWOLE-


Thank you for sharing your story with us!! (even though it just took me forever to read your original post and everyone elses after it, lol) It has to be difficult to admit whats going on and to be so open about it. You earned my respect.

I am sorry to hear about your health problems, yeah it would be VERY scary to go thru what u are going thru. Not to mention all the years of hard work, diet, training, sacrifices, and mild to moderate AAS use all gone down the toilet!


Occassionally I get pains on my left side right under my ribs and I think its from too many OTC "NSAID" drugs as well as OTC allergy meds. I should probably get in to get checked out more thoroughly as u suggested. Not to mention the Acid Reflux I have been having almost daily for the past few months. Dont ever get old...

------------------------------------------------

offtopic here, but in regards to your fina H pellet comment..... they are not for oral use. A farmer or veterinarian uses an implant gun and puts all 10 pellets in the ear close to the base of the head simultaneously. They are made to slowly dissolve and absorb into the cows system over months time. As I am sure you know, cows are much larger/heavier than humans, and a single implant (of 10 pellets) is only 200mg of trenbolone acetate.

So lets see... 200mg trenbolone for at least 4 weeks in a 1000pound cow, or 200mg trenbolone per week for a 200 pound human. Which do you think is safer? Yeah, I hear ya!

 

[BrooklynBB]

The Tren

Hey Hella Swole,

I'm glad you shared this.

And I will point out now a third time that it seems that the common denominator in all of these problems from Baldnazi to Hella Swole - and there were one or two others - is the damned Tren. (here's the third reference: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21960)

Each time this issue of the liver swelling up points directly to tren usage at the dose stated:

"I then threw in tren at 75-100mg EOD for the last 8 wks"

I really think there is something highly liver toxic about Tren and it should be researched. I've yet to see a case where tren was not used and these severe liver issues occurred - I'm talking about this board and other boards.

Tren has to be the cause of these problems once added to the anabolic mix. Does anyone know if there is anything special about the way that Tren acts on the liver? Maybe it's not just an elevation of liver enzymes but something esle? Some sort of growth factor or stimulating some sort of event that triggers liver-specific growth?

Tren is definitely the common denominator here... I'm convinced.

 

[GoneForever]

wow, interesting read about the anti-e's effecting the liver so much. I had no idea. Isnt aromasin the only one that is harmless to the liver and lipids?

 

[celtic-devil]

JEsus HELLA SWOLE......I'm so sorry to hear about what's happening to you.

I appreciate you putting the info on here so even tough something terrible is happening to you, at least it may help others learn from your experience and save peoples health or even lives. YOu can console yourself that out of this tradgedy, your doing something good....

It really makes me think about the risks we have decided to take in order to look/feel good. I know you never took serious risks and have a level head. You were quite moderate in your approach. However, many others seem to be running insane GONZO cycles that make me gasp every time I see them. I mean, non-bodybuilder types looking at what we do would be shocked. Risking serious side effects for that 5-10 pounds of muscle or 5-10 pounds less fat. Risking long term debilitating conditions jsut to look that bit better. I mean, COME ON!! We all take risks...but really, a point comes when the risks are simply not worth it. Doctors looking at some of these cycles would consider them suicide....

I am somewhat of a hypocrite as I recently decided to do an IGF+MGF cycle. I have promised myself, however, that it is a once off and am doing it mostly out of curiosity. I have a goal of 230 pounds & reasonably lean (a goal I should reach with an IGF+MGF cycle and one test only (500 per week) cycle). When I reach this goal, all I will juice for thereafter, is maintenance of this muscle or slight change in body composition. No heavy insane cycles for me thanks very much. ANd, after hearing HELLA SWOLES situation, I will have regular check ups.

I mean, how well has anyone really researched these substances. Can you honestly say you REALLY know what your putting in your bodies. Sure, we read the drug profiles on such and such a website and read the forums for info...but as we are seeing here, there are a host of other side effects to even moderate AAS use which almost nobody on here would have predicted. It scares me when people treat AAS as if they are some sort of entirely predictable substance which are safe to use. People seem to think that they have it all figured out and they are safe as long as they stick to protocol X or Y. We seem to think that we are completely safe.

It's just not true!! The truth is, all most people know about this stuff is what they read on the drug profiles or forums. While a lot of the time people rag on doctors and say they are ignorant about AAS, believe me, they know a lot more than you think. There are, I believe, far more long term effects with AAS than people know....

Thank you HELLA SWOLE, for sharing this with us.......

CELTIC-DEVIL

 

[woody00]

HELLA SWOLE-


Thank you for sharing your story with us!! (even though it just took me forever to read your original post and everyone elses after it, lol) It has to be difficult to admit whats going on and to be so open about it. You earned my respect.

I am sorry to hear about your health problems, yeah it would be VERY scary to go thru what u are going thru. Not to mention all the years of hard work, diet, training, sacrifices, and mild to moderate AAS use all gone down the toilet!


Occassionally I get pains on my left side right under my ribs and I think its from too many OTC "NSAID" drugs as well as OTC allergy meds. I should probably get in to get checked out more thoroughly as u suggested. Not to mention the Acid Reflux I have been having almost daily for the past few months. Dont ever get old...

------------------------------------------------

offtopic here, but in regards to your fina H pellet comment..... they are not for oral use. A farmer or veterinarian uses an implant gun and puts all 10 pellets in the ear close to the base of the head simultaneously. They are made to slowly dissolve and absorb into the cows system over months time. As I am sure you know, cows are much larger/heavier than humans, and a single implant (of 10 pellets) is only 200mg of trenbolone acetate.

So lets see... 200mg trenbolone for at least 4 weeks in a 1000pound cow, or 200mg trenbolone per week for a 200 pound human. Which do you think is safer? Yeah, I hear ya!

yes, once i read he was on tren. thats when i thought it was the cuplrit. i took my own homebrew kit 3 years ago. it worked awsome but on week 4 it would burn when i urinated and i can feel aches in my kidneys, so i stopped it. ill never mess with tren again, its way too harsh. not only that, but i think he may genetics are the biggest factor here too. i know plenty of guys in there 40s been on orals non stop for close to 10 years with zero health problems. these guys take high mgs of everything, yet their bodies are not torn up.

 

[diskey]

HELLA SWOLE sorry to hear about this bro. Hope you recover, at least the liver is the only organ who can heal itself.

I have about just the same cycle history as you, and I'm also 22. After one year going on and off I decided to stay more or less on. Never gone over 800mg weekly, mostly only test like sust, last 10 weeks I've done eq at 300mg besides 500mg sust. So been mostly on for the past two years only going like 8 weeks off each year. Allways been easy with orals, but I kind of like adrol, but most cycles has been 4 weekers with 25mg. I've done in-depth blood tests several times showing no problems, and managed to fully recover my testes(LH s-test and FSH values) in about 4-6 weeks after 9 months on, so I kind of feel I know what I'm doing lol. I did a contest in Oct06 and also did like you do the last weeks before. Was on 750sust and got over to 75mg winny ed and 50mg tren eod. Thats probably the harshes I've done, but damn that combo shredded fat and built muscle at the same tame. People said progress was truly great those weeks. Tren is the strongest I've done. I can't handle doses over 50mg eod. Tried 75mg eod but got problems with aggression, something I never had before, was terrible.

The moment that you can't spot the thing you got in your liver by livervalues scares me, don't think most docs would do cat scans on your liver without quite suspicion for anything special.

I've got the theory that when it comes to liver and kidneys it's very induvidual what a person can handle. I have friends who got liver diseases from 25mg dbol for three weeks, and I have those who drink absessive amounts of alcohol 3-4 times every week(college) and say they have fun between each others weaking up the day after judging who has the biggest pain in their liver, but they still keep going year arouund and dosen't look unhealthy. I also have a guy doing 8 weeks dbol followed by 6 weeks oral winny with no problems. I'm therefore wondering if you know if any in your family have had liver or kidney problems? To me such things seems often connected to genetics.

 

[thebrick]

Sort of a small point, but I don't think I'd be taking any acetaminophen, while on orals, which is processed in the liver not the kidneys. Not a big deal I know...but something worth mentioning.

Lats, thanks for your post. good info.

And Mack is right about the Tylenol, I have a business associate that has permanent liver damage from over-doing those. We need to look at every drug we ingest. OTC or not.

 

[Kaiser]

HS,
I never really conversed with you on here, but nevertheless, I hope you prevail and you do not need surgery. Good luck brutha.

 

[littlemack]

Lats, thanks for your post. good info.

And Mack is right about the Tylenol, I have a business associate that has permanent liver damage from over-doing those. We need to look at every drug we ingest. OTC or not.

You know man. I think a lot of people, including myself, don't really think about some of this OTC stuff or other prescription meds that we might be taking. Especially during cold and flu season when we're hitting the cold meds hard. Now I'm wondering about omeprazole(prilosec) and if it will increase the risk of liver disease when taking steroids. It may increase the risk of liver damage when taking acetaminophen. "Other commonly used medications, such as omeprazole (Prilosec), phenytoin (Dilantin), and isoniazid (INH), may increase the risk of liver injury caused by acetaminophen." **broken link removed**

May not do a lot of damage in 2-3 weeks time, but over 2-3 years it all may add up.

 

[Koevoet]

4 deaths in 10 years during a period when AAS usage was not as prevalent as it is now.

Hepatic angiosarcoma associated with androgenic-anabolic steroids.

Falk H, Thomas LB, Popper H, Ishak KG.

A retrospective epidemiological study of deaths from hepatic angiosarcoma (HAS) in the U.S. showed that during 1964--74 there were 168 such cases, of which 37 (22%) were associated with previously known causes (vinyl chloride, 'Thorotrast', and inorganic arsenic) and 4 (3.1%) of the remaining 131 cases with the use of androgenic-anabolic steroids. It is suggested that the long-term use of androgenic-anabolic steroids is the fourth cause of HAS, the majority of cases still being of unknown aetiology. Moreover, the presented cases serve as a link in a spectrum of hepatic disorders recently recognised to be caused by environmental agents such as vinyl chloride, arsenic, and thorotrast, and by contraceptive and anabolic steroids. Similar precursor stages, usually not recognised by clinical laboratory tests and consisting of areas of hyperplasia of hepatocytes and sinusoidal cells and sinusoidal dilatation, lead potentially to hepatic adenoma, carcinoma, peliosis, and angiosarcoma.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

4 deaths in 10 years during a period when AAS usage was not as prevalent as it is now.

Koevet, thanks folr posting that study, but I would like to make a BIG point here...actually a couple. THink about this...that study is only done on DEATHS from these liver disorders. It doesn't mention how many other cases there have been where people have had these problems, but survived them. I would bet money there were 10-fold as many people with the problems (just didn't die) because it is rare to die from these things. Also, if you notice, the VAST majority of the cases over that 10-year period were AAS related. Not to mention that study was taken in the 1960-1970's!! THink about how many more people use steroids today s compared to back then !!!! WIth the internet popping up, online sources, UG labs, and increased popularity of BB'ing, and increased competition in every sport, steroid use today is probably 100 times what it was back then as far as the sheer volume of people in the US who are using. Not to mention the fact that people now a days are taking 3-5 times the dosages people took way back in the 60's and 70's. Just think about that.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

Abadseal-I agree, when I read baldnazi's story, I it really hit home and made me even more careful and stuff still happened to me!!

Jerkyboy-I do not consider my years of hard work and eating right are down the drain. Sure I am going to lose some strength and weight, but I am young and I believe my elvels will recover. I will be keeping my diet and training tight and I do not think I will look too bad. WE will see though. As far as you having pains...you can never be too careful bro, go get
checked out.

BrooklynBB-Thanks for posting this, but I have to disagree with you. I do not think tren can be blamed as the sole culprit. I just don't see it. DOn't get me wrong, tren is harsh as shit on the body and should be used sparingly (if at all) but there are many other factors that are possible. I have been over it again and again in my head and there are many things I have come up with here they are:

-high estrogen levels from aromatization of gear causing mutations in liver cells (the high levels of estrogen are what cause this in females taking the pill)

-Orals-harsh on the liver

-multiple other oral pills such as tons of vitamins, OTC painkillers, cold medicine

-the solvents in gear (has to get filtered out by the liver)

-the liver is the body's "filter" and gear is, in essence, "medicine" and the more medicine you put in your body, the more stress it puts on the liver....compound that with time and...

-genetic predisposition

-maybe someone could already have small benign tumor cells int he liver and gear makes them grow...

-lifestyle factors: drinking, smoking, unhealthy eating, etc..
among many other factors.

I am sure it can be any combination of the above. Tren may have a part in teh equation, but then again, I do not think it is the main or only cause....who knows though

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

fourthgen- NO, aromasin is actually one of the better anti-e's when it comes to the lipid profile. Nolva can improve lipid profiles, letro and arimidex are tough on the lipid profile and aromasin I believe has very little to no effect. Like I said...my lipids were fine always...actually they were great. Except when I was on winny right before the show, which was to be expected.

celtic-devil: thanks for the kind words. Be careful with those exotic drugs, they are pretty new to the scene, comparatively speaking and therefore people really no jack-shit about their causes in the body or long-term side-effects when it comes to synthetic administration. I don't care what anybody says. They scare me. Oh and BTW, you sound like me...I used to say, if I could only get to a fairly lean 230, I woudl be happy, then you get there and....NOPE it then goes to 250 and then 265 etc etc....never ending process. I don't know anyone who ever took "just one" cycle or was happy when they gained "that last 15 lbs" lol If that was the case, I would have never gone past one cycle (which was my original plan...you know how it works) You probalby never in the past even DREAMED of using growth factors, did you?

woody-I am sure genetics does come into play, but that doesn't mena something couldn't be going on inside you without you knowing.

Diskey- NO, no one in my immediate or even outside family has had any kidney or liver problems...none. LIke you, I believe it is very individualistic of what people can take, but like i said, my blood panels were always fine.

Kaiser- Thanks a lot man, that is very nice of you to say. I have read a lot of your posts on here and you seem like a really good cat. I am really hoping and praying I don't have to have the surgery either bro. I can handle having to stay off gear and train natural from now on...I have a decent base and I am young so I can still improve, but if I have to get cut wide open because of soemthing I did to myself, then i will be very pissed and upset. I just hope it doesnt get to that.

 

[cchrisjj]

Same

yes, once i read he was on tren. thats when i thought it was the cuplrit. i took my own homebrew kit 3 years ago. it worked awsome but on week 4 it would burn when i urinated and i can feel aches in my kidneys, so i stopped it. ill never mess with tren again, its way too harsh. not only that, but i think he may genetics are the biggest factor here too. i know plenty of guys in there 40s been on orals non stop for close to 10 years with zero health problems. these guys take high mgs of everything, yet their bodies are not torn up.

Same here with the Tren...

Second too all...would you do it again?

 

[BrooklynBB]

BrooklynBB-Thanks for posting this, but I have to disagree with you. I do not think tren can be blamed as the sole culprit. I just don't see it.

...Tren may have a part in teh equation, but then again, I do not think it is the main or only cause....who knows though

I'm definitely not saying Tren is the only culprit, but I'm looking at the facts presented here on this board - You, BaldNazi and the other post I reference all had issues and all were using Tren. I've yet to see anyone else here post such horror stories and not be on Tren. That has been the consistent factor in all of these issues.

You mentioned lots of other causes, mostly with oral supplements including painkillers and the like. True - chemically they will raise liver enzymes. But you also realize that after you've stopped taking them, the liver enzymes drop?

Also, you said you took Milk Thistle. That's good for redicing bilirubin, but what about other factors which DIRECTLY cause the liver to grow? Tren must play a role in this, somehow. It's a powerful androgen, and who is to say that it doesn't directly provide growth to the liver? I don't want to speculate, but I will - it could make increase the potency of even a slight enzyme increase or keep bile in the liver longer or prevent the liver from doing it's job effectively by other means, etc.

So I'll accept that Tren isn't the ONLY cause here, but you have to accept that tren has been the only common factor in all of these cases, and following the addition of 75 - 150 mg of tren, the problems arose... correct?

 

[Grunt76]

I'm with you BrooklynBB. Definitely the much-loved tren deserves more respect.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

So I'll accept that Tren isn't the ONLY cause here, but you have to accept that tren has been the only common factor in all of these cases, and following the addition of 75 - 150 mg of tren, the problems arose... correct?

No, the problems arose about 7 months after using the tren...not right after. Hell, I don't even know when this thing started, it could have been inside me for a year or two...who knows, but I just now have found it....thank GOD. You are correct though, BN and I both used tren, although I do not feel like I got crazy with the dosage on it.

Ya know, I think I have read somehwere that there are actually androgen receptors in the liver....is this right?

Also, if I could go back and do it all over again, I would simply just COMPLETELY avoid ALL orals and tren. And I would take very sufficient breaks in between cycles....long breaks and just make sure I kept my diet on point. Unfortunately though, I can not go back and do it all over again....

 

[IBdMfkr]

Hey S, I remember you telling me about your disposition.. Hope everything works out, let me know if I can help in anyway.

peace