Another liver thread: PLEASE HELP

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 19, 2007

Well, fellas...I have been having a dull pain in my lower right abdominal region and I figured it was my appendix, so I went to the doc and then got a CT done and they said that my lymphs were swollen in the area and I may have to get my appendix taken out...well, they also said that the CT showed a "fullness" in my liver which they said could possibly be "heptatic ademoma" which is often seen in anabolic steroid users (the docs words). She said that they aren't too worried about it right now that they are more worried about my appendix, so I have to be admitted to the hospital to see if it needs to be removed, and the doc there would probably run more tests on my liver.

I get my bloodwork done regulary and I always have 1 value that is sometimes jsut SLIGHTLY high and I always figure it is due to weight training (because I usually have trained 1-2 days prior to bloodowrk just by chance). For instance, in beginning of december my alkaline phosphatase was 140 U/L when the upper limit should be 125. 6-8 weeks before than the only thing that was high was my ALT levels which were 94 U/L which the upper end should have been 60U/L. I don't use orals during the year, and the last time I used any was my show in July which was winny for 50mg/ed for 6 wks and halo for 20mg/day for 2 wks. Before that, I had used 50mg/ed of A50 for 3.5 wks the previous January (so 1 year ago). How worried should I be and what should I tell the doc? I am shittin myself and very worried...at the first sound of what the doc said I got a damn knot in my throat and thought I was gonna tear up. Anybody have any knowledge or experience with this?

By the way, I only use 600mg of test and 400mg deca or EQ...I do not abuse.

oldfella · Jan 19, 2007

What type of test and how often? Liver damage is fortunately is repairable. As long as you have not caused to severe damage the liver, given a chance will recover. Since the quack is not too concerned right now I'd say if you clean out for a while it will come good. As for your appendix well, if it's gotta go it's goota go!! plain and simple. No biggie, I had mine out when I was 15. You also did not mention how long have you been on. It pays to dry out for a while and allow your receptor sites to freshen up also. Aviod high fat meals and moderate your protein and carbs. Get some form of liver tonic or better yet Ask Phil from here about enzymes! They will help big time. Good luck bro.

BALDNAZI · Jan 19, 2007

All these liver threads...I told you so

You need to keep an eye on it bro.Hepatic adenomas can grow until they burst,as was the case with me.I do not have to repeat my story,you know what happened.

When some idiot tells you "steroids don't really effect your liver,its never been proven".Tell him to go fuck himself. Truth is, this shit we put into our bodies,it may cause no problems for you at all,but there is a certain percentage of us out there,that just can't handle it.

I hope your ok brother,PM if you need any advice.You caught it in time so you should be fine.

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 21, 2007

Hey BN....I tried to PM you but your box is full....would you mind clearing out some PM's so I could hit you up? I would appreciate it greatly and would love to talk to you about this. Thanks brotha

ironone1 · Jan 21, 2007

I feel for you bro, you probably saw my thread. Mine is enlarged 22cm compared to 15cm normally. They told me the same thing that its probably from AAS use. I am waiting for the bloodwork results myself to see if I have high iron levels. I don't think you need to be told the obvious to stay off for awhile.

ironone1 · Jan 21, 2007

BALDNAZI said:
You need to keep an eye on it bro.Hepatic adenomas can grow until they burst,as was the case with me.I do not have to repeat my story,you know what happened.

When some idiot tells you "steroids don't really effect your liver,its never been proven".Tell him to go fuck himself. Truth is, this shit we put into our bodies,it may cause no problems for you at all,but there is a certain percentage of us out there,that just can't handle it.

I hope your ok brother,PM if you need any advice.You caught it in time so you should be fine.

I hear you bro, I never thought much about running cycles for 8 or 9 months doing tren and orals for a long time. I never really felt any pain there til now, about 9 or 10 months later. I will never be so foolish to underestimate the harm that they can do to you.

BrooklynBB · Jan 21, 2007

HELLA SWOLE said:
Well, fellas...I have been having a dull pain in my lower right abdominal region and I figured it was my appendix, so I went to the doc and then got a CT done and they said that my lymphs were swollen in the area and I may have to get my appendix taken out...well, they also said that the CT showed a "fullness" in my liver which they said could possibly be "heptatic ademoma" which is often seen in anabolic steroid users (the docs words). She said that they aren't too worried about it right now that they are more worried about my appendix, so I have to be admitted to the hospital to see if it needs to be removed, and the doc there would probably run more tests on my liver.

I get my bloodwork done regulary and I always have 1 value that is sometimes jsut SLIGHTLY high and I always figure it is due to weight training (because I usually have trained 1-2 days prior to bloodowrk just by chance). For instance, in beginning of december my alkaline phosphatase was 140 U/L when the upper limit should be 125. 6-8 weeks before than the only thing that was high was my ALT levels which were 94 U/L which the upper end should have been 60U/L. I don't use orals during the year, and the last time I used any was my show in July which was winny for 50mg/ed for 6 wks and halo for 20mg/day for 2 wks. Before that, I had used 50mg/ed of A50 for 3.5 wks the previous January (so 1 year ago). How worried should I be and what should I tell the doc? I am shittin myself and very worried...at the first sound of what the doc said I got a damn knot in my throat and thought I was gonna tear up. Anybody have any knowledge or experience with this?

By the way, I only use 600mg of test and 400mg deca or EQ...I do not abuse.

I'm curious about a few other things:

In regards to the months leading up to December, say, from October - December,

1 - How often did you train and for how long?

2 - How much protein did you take in?

3 - What other OTC supplements did you take?

4 - Besides what you listed, did you ever, at any point, use Tren?

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 22, 2007

I answered your questions within the quote of your post below....

BrooklynBB said:
I'm curious about a few other things:

In regards to the months leading up to December, say, from October - December,

1 - How often did you train and for how long?

Ever since January of '06 I have trained three days per week. I was training for about 1.5 hrs Up until my show in July (not including cardio) and then starting in August after my show, I still trained three days a week but switched to DC style training. My sessions have been about 60-70 minutes each since July or August.
I take about 10 days completely off, or with jsut light weights every 6-7 weeks.
2 - How much protein did you take in?

around 400grams. I am close to 250lbs right now...
3 - What other OTC supplements did you take?

Every day this is waht I take:
1 cranberry extract cap
2 multi-vitamins
12.5mg aromasin (EOD)
1-2 caps of hawthorne berry
1-2 caps milk thistle (200mg)...I have not used orals since July for the show
1X 1000mg garlic cap
3-4 grams vit C per day
500mg Niacin ED
4-5 fish oil caps spread throughout thte day.
600mg vit B6 spread throughout the day
3-5 g of CEE pre and post wokrout only

As you can see I have a pretty extensive micro profile and I feel like I play things pretty safe for the most part. I drink 1-2 times per month, but nothing too drastic...although there will be a night that can be pretty heavy once ever 2 months or so for aspecial occasion.

4 - Besides what you listed, did you ever, at any point, use Tren?

Yes, I Used tren at 350mg per week for 8 wks b4 my show (like I already said), and I used it the previous offseason at 400mg/wk (enantahte ester...not acetate) I do not use it anymore via the advice of many...maybe for a show now...but no more offseason tren use. I must say though I never used tren pellets...only raw powder.

THe thing that baffles me the most is my bloodwork is always pretty normal for the most part ( i get it done every 2 months probably). My LDL is on the upper end of the normal range and my HDL is on the low end of the normal range, but they are still both normal. My blood pressure is always around 130/75, but when I wake up it is much lower and after my appendix surgery in the hospital it was even measuring 116/57. MY liver values are usually elevated but nothing big time or more than you would expect to see from just from intense training... I have had an echocardio gram and EKG done within the past 3 months and my heart is healthy as well. Creatnine levels are always normal... (usually 1.0 ) I stay on top of my health and that is why this has taken me by suprise...I could be jumping the gun a little though. Also like I siad, my doses are not any more than moderate...at the most. I dont eat junk food/fast food either....ever.

Baldnazi....pease clear your PM's when you get the chance...thanks

ironone1 · Jan 22, 2007

I just started getting alot of pain in my liver area-never bothered me before. I don't even know if there is anything I can take for the pain that wouldn't stress the liver more. I've been using lido. pain patches and ibuprofen so far. I have to go to doc tomorrow to see what he recommends. What did they give you for pain bro, anything?

ironone1 · Jan 22, 2007

My bloodwork all normal also, so I don't get it either.

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 22, 2007

I read through all of BN's posts about his whole ordeal he went through and in one of his posts he stated that blood tests likely wouldnt have necessarily indicated that he had a heptatic adenoma....that this can only be diagnosed though MRI, cat scan, some x-ray's, or unltra sounds of the liver.

Well they gave me loritab for my pain after my surgery, but i havent really needed them, nor have I wanted to use them due to my possible liver issue.

ironone1 · Jan 22, 2007

No, I meant the pain for your liver. I can't even bend over to tie my shoes now. I know if you take something for pain it will probably stress it more. I had an ultrasound done and it showed nothing abnormal besides being enlarged. I am just coming off of surgery myself for an umbilical hernia. I wonder if the lortabs I took screwed things up since?

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 22, 2007

I do not have any pain in my liver...shit I don't even know for sure what or if anything is wrong yet.

da smasher · Jan 22, 2007

HELLA SWOLE said:
I do not have any pain in my liver...shit I don't even know for sure what or if anything is wrong yet.

I know if you use alot of acetaminofen based products your liver will take a beating. My favorite pre workout/fat burner is 1/2 ephedrine and 3 excedrine, but for fear for liver damage I only use it on leg day.

XrCYST · Jan 23, 2007

what did your WBC look like ?

HELLA SWOLE · Jan 23, 2007

XrCYST said:
what did your WBC look like ?

I am guessing WBC stands for white blood cell count?

If so, it was 5.3 which is normal. It was not elevated yet,. b/c I was in the beginning stages of appendicitus...if I let it go much longer things would have been much worse. The CT showed a very inflamed appendix though.