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Anyone wanna tackle these insulin theories?

Juice Freak

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Messages
404
I was wondering if you could read this article that i found regarding the use of insulin while not gaining bodyfat, and let me know your thoughts? Also I was a bit unclear of what he was saying as regards to the nutrient profiles of this diet while on slin, if you could also break down this section for me into how much protein,carbs, no fats? I don't know what he was saying maybe you could make sense of it. Let me know your thoughts.

Big Fat Bastards and Insulin


by Author L. Rea (author of Chemical Muscle Enhancement)

Chemical Muscle Enhancement: Bodybuilder's Desk Reference - "Chemical Muscle Enhancement" is the equivalent of a bodybuilder's "Physician's Desk Reference" (PDR). Author L. Rea has profiled the drugs used by today's mass monsters to create the cartoon proportioned superhero physiques most can only dream of. From beginner to advanced, adult man or woman, this is the must have book for the chemically enhanced athlete.

Warning: The following information is intended only as a hypothetical consideration of ways in which human physiology may be altered, through pharmacological means, to achieve striking muscularity. The drugs discussed in this series of articles are, by and large, prescription drugs and should not be used without the supervision of a qualified physician. No attempt should be made to circumvent the laws in your area to obtain these drugs without a prescription. As always, MESO-Rx does not condone in any way the illegal acquisition and/or use of prescription drugs for purposes other than those approved by the FDA or other legally recognized regulatory bodies.

Ask any of the elite who has become truly massive beasts which anabolic substance has had the most profound effect upon their physique and the answer from the largest mammals will unanimously be insulin. Though GH has brought to the forefront of competitive stages the well retained lean muscle mass tissue displayed beneath an onion skin exterior of today, it is the symbiotic relationship insulin has with all other physical enhancement chemistry that has made beasts what they are in the new millenium.


Insulin is predominantly a storage hormone in that it initiates a cascade of cellular events that result in up-regulation of cellular nutrient content. It obviously goes without saying then that supraphysiological plasma levels of insulin result in supraphysiological cellular levels of nutrients. This in itself allows for a highly anabolic effect known as an osmotic response. A cellular osmotic response is nothing more than an increase in water and growth potentiating nutrients intracellularly that has a effect similar to increasing the amount of air in a balloon. More air in the balloon means a larger balloon. More water and proportionate growth nutrients means a larger cell. Interesting enough is the fact that this also triggers another survival mechanism that tells the stretched cell wall to increase in thickness to accommodate the osmotic response. This is due to an up-regulation in localized IGF-1 and MGF production and the synergistic response initialize. Oh ya. That is anabolism in the form of hypertrophy. Unfortunately, insulin is quite anabolic to fat cells too.


Since insulin is the body’s main "storage" hormone it should come as no surprise to the reader that many diabetics and would-be beasts alike have become horribly fat as a result of improper insulin use and misguided dietary habits. Many bodybuilders have employed the 10-15 grams of carbohydrates per IU of insulin administered protocol with a great deal of success in spite of the inherent dangers of non-medical insulin use. However many, who have either become insulin resistant/insensitive or are genetically predisposed to inordinate adipose (fat) tissue accumulation, have endured a greater anabolism of adipose tissue than muscle. Some have foolishly put on more covering clothing and simply accepted this as a necessary side effect endured for the greater eventual goal. Others have added the additional potential negative side effects of heart arrhythmia/tachycardia, diabetes, and other not so fun stuff as well.


As I have pointed out many times before, adipose tissue is a major site for aromatase enzyme activity which in itself compounds the Big Fat Bastard problem. Many AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroids) are susceptible to the effects of aromatase enzyme conversion to estrogens as is endogenously produced (made inside the body) androgens such as testosterone. Obviously the greater the volume and activity of this enzyme that exists in the body, the greater the chance and degree of aromatization that occurs. Estrogen is directly anabolic to a minor degree to muscle tissue. Both fortunately and unfortunately it is highly anabolic to adipose tissue. Since estrogen is the hormone that induces female pattern fat deposits it is fortunate because a nice rack is a thing of beauty. Unfortunately I have as of yet not noted a single male bodybuilder who looked good or happy with boobs or any other fatty female attributes. So a greater degree of adipose tissue accumulation from insulin administration results in a compounded adipose tissue storage effect from aromatase enzyme susceptible AAS employment.


In some instances the result of this vicious cycle is bodybuilders who fail to ingest adequate calories during AAS protocols as a means of decreasing adipose tissue accumulation. Unless you are from another planet you realize this also limits muscular growth potential as well.


Before we discuss all of the interesting facts concerning the means of becoming a big fat bastard, it is necessary to have a fundamental understanding of the macronutrient product glucose.

GLUCOSE
Glucose is the body’s preferred energy substrate. Though the brain’s nutrient make-up is nearly 1/3 omega-3 fatty acids it is glucose that is without fail mandatory for continued sentience. So carb up a little and read closely as we learn a few things about the body we have been entrusted to play nice with.


When we ingest food stuffs in the form of the three macronutrients protein, carbohydrates, and fats the GI track introduces a series of chemical Action/Reaction Factors that result in the break-down of these nutrients to metabolic substrates.


Proteins = amino acids
Carbohydrates = glucose
Fats = fatty acids

It appears simple on the surface but in fact glucose can be converted to triglycerides and adipose tissue or lean tissue glycogen stores and toilet tinkle. Like wise fatty acids can be stored as fat or utilized as an energy substrate by the body’s tissues but it cannot be converted to glucose. This is interesting when one considers the fact that carbohydrates can become glucose or fat, but fat cannot become glucose (though the cellular mitochondria can use fatty acids as an energy substrate as a keto response). Protein is ultimately destined to become amino acids employed for cellular repair and growth or intimate moments with the bathroom. But certain amino acids called gluconeogenic amino acids can be converted to glucose too. This can be disastrous for a bodybuilder who hopes to be a beast one day since lean muscle mass is predominantly made up of protein in the form of amino acids and a complete spectrum is necessary. We will get to this later. For now simply accept that glucose is necessary for life and bodybuilding progress alike.


The average circulatory value for glucose allows for about only 4 grams of glucose. It is actually uncommon for blood glucose levels to rise beyond an additional 1.5-2.0 grams or to drop below the 4 gram mark. A healthy individual who ingests a meal containing 50-150g of mixed carbohydrates will realize the normal increase in circulatory glucose for only about an hour. Interesting thing here is that endogenous (made by the body) insulin secretion will remain elevated for an additional 2 hours after glucose clearing. When the same individual ingests 300g of carbs (Fat Bastard) at one time the resulting insulin secretion levels will be 300% above normal for an additional 7 hours after blood glucose clearing. This is clearly a highly anabolic environment, but after tissue glycogen stores reach maximum levels a grotesque amount of the excess glucose finds its way to adipose tissue. And don’t worry. If all of the existing fat cells are full, the body is way to happy to make new ones to secrete lots of aromatase enzyme. And herein awaits the key to greater lean mass tissue and a decrease in adipose tissue.

GLUCONEOGENESIS
Gluconeogenesis is the biosynthesis of new glucose. This means that glucose is synthesized from other substrates than carbohydrates or glycogen stores. Obviously since the only source of fuel for the brain, testes, kidneys, and erythrocytes is glucose the body in its amazing adaptive manner can manufacture glucose from other materials. Those who are up on keto diets are aware of the fact that the body can derive energy from ketone bodies (which are converted into acetyl-CoA). But that is an entire different topic for now. In short the body utilizes the carbon structures within substrates to create energy in the eventual form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). ATP is cellular energy that, as readers are aware, is the body’s only energy currency. In the case of gluconeogenesis the carbon structures can come from other sources.


Triglycerides are structures consisting of three fatty acids adjoined by a glycerol molecule. By cleaving the fatty acids away from the glycerol molecule the body can utilize the freed glycerol molecule to make glucose through a series of conversions and subsequent carbon utilization.


With the exception of lysine and leucine all 20 (or 22 if you are of that school of thought) amino acids can be turned into TCA cycle intermediates which in turn allows for the carbon skeletons of the amino acids to be converted to pyruvate. The newly formed pyruvate can then be utilized by the gluconeogenic pathway to create glucose by way of another series of metabolic pathways. Let me explain that a little better. When glycogen stores in the liver and muscle are depleted the working/recovering muscles, brain and organs need another energy source. Catabolism of muscle tissue proteins to amino acids becomes the main source of carbon skeletons for the maintenance of mandatory blood glucose. As you will recall the body can clear 50 –150 grams of carbohydrates in only a few hours.


So how much muscle do you think the gluconeogenic adaptive process can munch in the same period of inadequate nutrient supply from diet? By the way, the amino acid Alanine is the favorite gluconeogenic snack with Arginine and Glutamine coming in as close seconds.

THINK ABOUT IT
In the presence of circulatory insulin elevation gluconeogenesis in the liver and muscle tissue decreases. During periods of circulating supraphysiological levels of amino acid muscle catabolism decreases. In the presence of both protein synthesis occurs.


So it would seem that the two choices a wanna-be beast faces is 300 grams of carbohydrates to induce a sufficient prolonged insulin spike and a Big Fat Bastard pose down or non-stop keto diets and declarations of "Hey, I may look like a weenie but I am really cut" for life.


The obvious solution is an elevation in both circulatory insulin and a corrected amino acid pool rendered highly efficient by design and not by chance.

Insulin administration is nothing new to the larger beasts of the bodybuilding world. Unfortunately neither is Big Fat Bastard status in the brief off-season. So it should come as no surprise to those who have entered the realm of the chemically enhance athlete to learn that insulin can make even the best genetically predisposed individual fat. It has been my experience that this is simply not necessary.


Insulin forces excessive amounts of amino acids into muscle cells when an adequate supply exists at the time of insulin exposure. Insulin also triggers increased muscle cell glycogen synthesis by way of positively effecting the rate limiting enzyme glycogen synthase. We also know the positive effects correct application of supraphysiological insulin levels has had upon the most catabolic pathway there is that affects muscle mass from reading my two prior books. Add to this the fact that insulin is synergistic to and with all other chemicals of muscular enhancement and realize the potential.


In relationship to goals it would seem evident that a protocol employing the attributes of insulin would necessitate the symbiotic relationship the hormone has with macronutrients as it applies to lean muscle mass tissue.



Muscle is more than 80% protein by dry weight.


ATP is the energy currency of muscular contractions, repair, and growth.


Glucose is the prime source substrate for ATP synthesis and mandatory for proper brain and organ function (yes, that one also).


Excess blood glucose will result in excess adipose tissue accumulation.

The Protocol
Diet

When this protocol was created its intent was rapid accumulation of lean mass tissue without an increase in adipose tissue deposits. Since the foundation of the diet was structured for efficient gluconeogenic dependant upon a correct ratio and amount of amino acids, a great deal of protein was consumed daily. The most effective protein intake minimum was the equivalent of 3 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily divided into at least 6 meals. Using a 200 pound individual as an example it was possible to reduce this slightly by simply eating 4 whole food meals daily providing 50 grams of whole protein each and sipping on whey protein drinks in water throughout the day

providing the remaining 400 grams of protein. I preferred whey protein simply because it is one of the only two drinkable products I am aware of that allows for actual hyperaminoacid response in the circulatory system. Casein, egg, and (some people still use it) soy proteins fail to clear the GI track at a rate significant enough to induce the necessary supraphysiological amino acid concentrations for the protocol. The fact that whey protein is easily oxidized by the liver should be the first clue to the reason why results are superior. By the way, the other is Human Profile by Hazardous Materials (it is nearly 100% absorbed)


So here is the kicker. Though fat intake could be quite high, total daily carbohydrate intake could not exceed 0.5 grams per 25 pounds of bodyweight daily. The reason is simple: The goal was to force the body to employ the gluconeogenic pathway as a means of energy production. Any degree of actual glycogen regeneration resulted in the body returning to the glycosis pathway which allows for adipose tissue accumulation. The reason this worked so well was simplistic in nature. The making of ATP through amino acid gluconeogenesis is very inefficient thus allowing for a huge calorie expenditure similar to what occurs during DNP utilization. During calorie expenditure the body does not store fat but it does undergo protein anabolism. When enough protein was ingested the result was always a net increase in lean body mass of 5-8 pounds by the end of a two week protocol. Not bad for an experienced beasts, huh?

Additional Supplements
Since exogenous insulin was utilized during this protocol and, as mentioned prior, the gluconeogenic energy pathway loves certain amino acids it is easy to realize that the normal ratio of amino acids derived from whey protein and whole foods was not likely adequate. A mixture of 4 parts Alanine, 2 parts Glutamine, 2 parts Arginine and 1 part Taurine was created and capsulated. The dosage ingested was 1 gram of the supplemental mix per I.U. of insulin administered daily divided into 2 post administration dosages.


The preparation for this protocol required a liver glycogen depletion period of 24 hours prior to initial insulin administration. This was done to initiate the gluconeogenic pathway prior to protocol onset thus preventing any loss of lean tissue growth potential.


Though only a total idiot would ever assume that non-medical exogenous insulin use was safe, the utilization of a fast acting insulin was the better choice for this protocol. The first reason of course being that short acting chemistry also means shorter periods of potential exposure to negative side effects like a coma. Second is the fact that it was necessary due to the relevance in liver capacity for glucose manufacture by way of gluconeogenesis. Running out of adequate glucose reserves would introduce a series of potential negative side effects that would have required the ingestion of dextrose to inhibit.

EXAMPLES OF INSULIN
Name of Insulin Start Activity Highest Activity Ends Activity Low BS
Very short-acting (Humalog) 10 minutes 1.5 hours 3 hours 2-4 hours
Short-acting (Regular/-R) 20 minutes 3-4 hours 8 hours 3-7 hours
Intermediate acting (Nor L) 1.5-2 hours 4-15 hours 22-24 hours 6-13 hours
Long-acting (Ultra Lente) 4 hours 10-24 hours 36 hours 12-28 hours
Combination: 70% N/30% R 0-1 hour 3-13 hours 12-20 hours 3-12 hours
Combination: 50% N/50% R 0-1 hour 3-12 hours 12-20 hours 3-12 hours

Humalog was administered about 15 minutes before an appropriate meal
Regular Type-R was administered 30 minutes before an appropriate meal
Low BS = Low blood sugar (Glucose).
As the reader can see when viewing the examples of insulin above, the employment of Humalog allowed for a total of 4 daily administrations of 10-15iu each and Humulin-R (Short-acting) only allowed for 3 daily administrations. This is not to say some have not increased the dosage or chose different insulin analogs, but it is to say that under these circumstances it was not necessary or more effective.


When looking at the following example consider these facts:


Testosterone suspension has an active-life of about 24 hours tough plasma androgen levels remain elevated for about an additional 24 hours.

Sex hormones such as testosterone and estrogens are inactive when bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and free or active when not.

Insulin is a powerful SHBG inhibitor.
Insulin increases muscle glucose transporters and androgen receptors
Protocol Example

NOTE: This is for advanced users only. Always start out at a much lesser dosage. IE: 2iu's maybe post workout and work your way up from there. basskiller

Day...... Protocol
1. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
2. Humalog 10iu 4xd
3. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
4. Humalog 10iu 4xd
5. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
6. Humalog 10iu 4xd
7. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
8. Humalog 10iu 4xd
9. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
10. Humalog 10iu 4xd
11. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
12. Humalog 10iu 4xd
13. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
14. Humalog 10iu 4xd Day .......Protocol
15. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
16. Humalog 10iu 4xd
17. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
18. Humalog 10iu 4xd
19. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
20. Humalog 10iu 4xd
21. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
22. Humalog 10iu 4xd
23. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
24. Humalog 10iu 4xd
25. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
26. Humalog 10iu 4xd
27. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
28. Humalog 10iu 4xd



Testosterone Sus. = testosterone suspension


150mg of testosterone suspension created a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulated the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increased androgen receptor sensitivity. This also meant that the administered testosterone was free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system was quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism occurred. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.

Another article concerning insulin use without fat gain:

INSULIN AND HCA



WRITTEN BY MAYNARD

Getting straight to the point, unless you are a moron and are eating fat during insulin use, or you have crappy insulin sensitivity, HCA is the second most effective fat gain inhibitor next to Clenbuterol (which is only more effective due to its' ridiculously long half life).
Hydroxy Citric Acid (HCA) is the main ingredient in Citrimax, and is a bargain in terms of its': relative effectiveness (when using insulin), cost (cheap, cheap, cheap), and availability. It works by inhibiting an enzyme called ATP citrate ly(s)ase (ACL), which basically converts ingested carbs to fat (which insulin promptly stores). This is normally NOT a big deal since ACL levels are normally low in most humans. However, insulin drastically increases ACL levels (which should make sense based on what you now know about insulin) accounting for most of the, responsible use, fat gain associated with insulin use. This is the most exciting find since the discovery of insulin as an anabolic! Using insulin and not gaining fat while gaining muscle? What a concept! Although I don't like to go into the details of use directly, I believe it is warranted here. 500-750mgs HCA should be taken with or within half an hour after the insulin shot.
They usually recommended 250mgs is ineffective in dealing with the drastic increase in ACL levels. The HCA is taken with the shot because both start to work on about one half hour, so the HCA can begin to be effective at the same time that insulin is trying to increase ACL levels.
This regimen (only 3X500mgs HCA) prevented fat gain during a day when I used 3 separate insulin shots! To make things even better there is a mild glycogen storage property associated with HCA use. Since ingested carbs cannot be converted to, or stored as, fat, they are generally stored (due to insulin) as glycogen in muscle giving the user a mild but noticeable pump (similar to the first day of creatine use). To end this portion of the list, I give HCA my highest recommendation as the number 1 supplement to use with insulin!

I was also wondering if it were possible to use high amounts of GH eg. 9Ius daily with this slin diet would that be of benefit cause in the following article it says that insulin and gh injected at the same time causes the most in muscle gains?

and it seems to have very, very synergistic anabolic effects when present at the same time as insulin. In fact, there is research showing how GH or insulin alone have little effect on weight gain in animals, but when injected together (simultaneously), animals triple in size!! 1 It’s speculated that GH stimulates uptake of about half of the 9 or so essential amino acids into muscle, while insulin stimulates the uptake (or prevents the loss) of the complimentary half.1 Since all must be present for protein synthesis, vóila! Notice that I said “injected together” – this does not occur naturally. GH and insulin are largely counter-regulatory (and not present together), so their dramatic effects have been reserved for drug users.

So any imput on how I may incorporate this plan into my next cycle please let me know and any help on how to make this diet plan more practical and easier to read for me would also be of great help.

Thanks for you time

Sincerely Juice Freak
 
Wow

Good read man...
 
Hmmm....

Another supplement making claims. Well, an admittedly-quick search of MedLine showed nothing to support the claims being made for hydroxy citric acid. In fact, I couldn't even find references for anything called that.

Ask the purveyors of this supplement to list references supporting their claim. Specifically: Did this exact compound, utilized in the dosages and delivery method they recommend, show measurable effects, and how was the study conducted? And testimonials from users don't count.

Also, who is Maynard?

Sounds, so far, like you should save your money on this one.
 
Re: Hmmm....

Dad said:
Another supplement making claims. Well, an admittedly-quick search of MedLine showed nothing to support the claims being made for hydroxy citric acid. In fact, I couldn't even find references for anything called that.

Ask the purveyors of this supplement to list references supporting their claim. Specifically: Did this exact compound, utilized in the dosages and delivery method they recommend, show measurable effects, and how was the study conducted? And testimonials from users don't count.

Also, who is Maynard?

Sounds, so far, like you should save your money on this one.

Dad,

Use the followig search terms in medline:
hydroxycitric [one word]
acid
supplement

-Randy
 
Thanks, Randy

I'll take a look - I just did a really quick scan at first, so I'll go see what's there.

Thanks for providing the directions!
 

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