Blood Work in the Golden Era

[XstarchildX]

It's probably been discussed before, yet I've never come across it... how did bodybuilders keep up on health back before private labs, etc? In the 60's, 70's and 80's, how did they keep an eye on health markers? Did they run blood work? How would they know if their H an H is high, or their e2, prolactin, etc are out of whack?

 

[tenny]

when you "DIDNT FEEL GOOD"....you went off....

or.....when you start pissing blood....you back off....alittle...

kinda like now actually....sadly

true story..

seriously though.....who knows what they really did back then...
as I said I'm sure it was a lot like today....some did....some don't....
some care about their health....some don't....its the same

 

[pesty4077]

It's probably been discussed before, yet I've never come across it... how did bodybuilders keep up on health back before private labs, etc? In the 60's, 70's and 80's, how did they keep an eye on health markers? Did they run blood work? How would they know if their H an H is high, or their e2, prolactin, etc are out of whack?

It wasn't a controlled substance back then. Easy to go to a Doctor and get Steroids and bloodwork. I did this through the 80's.

 

[nothuman]

Doctor's today are completely clueless as to how to treat steroid patients. Imagine how useless they must have been back then. Most don't even know to use a larger arm cuff to take blood pressure today. Virtually none know what the real blood tests are needed either. I'm impressed when I see anything more than lipids, cbc panel, ast/alt, and kidney panel. There was no google back then either so you couldn't educate yourself even if you tried.

 

[XstarchildX]

when you "DIDNT FEEL GOOD"....you went off....

or.....when you start pissing blood....you back off....alittle...

kinda like now actually....sadly

true story..

seriously though.....who knows what they really did back then...
as I said I'm sure it was a lot like today....some did....some don't....
some care about their health....some don't....its the same

Oh believe me, I've run into some older vets that still follow the "Go by feel" protocol. These are the same guys that are beat red like a lobster and laboring from breath after throwing another 45 on the bar lol. Scares me a little bit

It wasn't a controlled substance back then. Easy to go to a Doctor and get Steroids and bloodwork. I did this through the 80's.

Really? That's how it should be! Did they know what labs to run?

Doctor's today are completely clueless as to how to treat steroid patients. Imagine how useless they must have been back then. Most don't even know to use a larger arm cuff to take blood pressure today. Virtually none know what the real blood tests are needed either. I'm impressed when I see anything more than lipids, cbc panel, ast/alt, and kidney panel. There was no google back then either so you couldn't educate yourself even if you tried.

Agreed. My current doc (looking for a new one) treated me for iron deficiency anemia. I've run several blasts whilst keeping my H and H slightly anemic. Then he pumps me with a ridiculous amount of iron and folic acid for almost 4 months, runs labs again. My H and H were elevated and out of range (hematocrit was high @ 56 and hemo was slightly out of range at 17.4). He immediately blames TRT. I was ON THE ENTIRE TIME when anemic. He said it has "nothing to do with the iron and I need to stop TRT." He then claimed TRT is a myth created by these hormone replacement clinics to create revenue and will ultimately kill you... He said there's no danger in low T (Mine tested at 118 and under before being diagnosed)... SMH.

 

[LATS]

when you "DIDNT FEEL GOOD"....you went off....

or.....when you start pissing blood....you back off....alittle...

kinda like now actually....sadly

true story..

seriously though.....who knows what they really did back then...
as I said I'm sure it was a lot like today....some did....some don't....
some care about their health....some don't....its the same

A lot of truth to that... Ironager Don Ross said in a interview that he never went off and most his cycles were Orals.. Said the only thing that made him back off once was pissing blood after decades nonstop.. He eventually had a heart attack.. Ironagers were human.. No different than us.. Some abused and some came off.. But many did not have the knowledge about the adverse effects like we do today.. And many more fib about what they took.. Most weren't dealing in SLIN and HGH plus the added peptides.. And cycling ( a specific time frame) was used much more often back then.. But not by all.. So in regards to your question some got blood work and sme DIDNT.. Just like today.. But today people disregard the obvious signs.. If you have constant fatigue.. Need stimulants to get through every workout.. Feel bloated and just generally unhealthy it's time to back off.. Side effects are just that.. Side effects and they are not meant to be a good sign..

 

[nothuman]

Agreed. My current doc (looking for a new one) treated me for iron deficiency anemia. I've run several blasts whilst keeping my H and H slightly anemic. Then he pumps me with a ridiculous amount of iron and folic acid for almost 4 months, runs labs again. My H and H were elevated and out of range (hematocrit was high @ 56 and hemo was slightly out of range at 17.4). He immediately blames TRT. I was ON THE ENTIRE TIME when anemic. He said it has "nothing to do with the iron and I need to stop TRT." He then claimed TRT is a myth created by these hormone replacement clinics to create revenue and will ultimately kill you... He said there's no danger in low T (Mine tested at 118 and under before being diagnosed)... SMH.

Stories like this is exactly what I mean. So sad we have to go through this, and god forbid we try to challenge the "experts." Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the USA and that's just for general patients.

 

[XstarchildX]

A lot of truth to that... Ironager Don Ross said in a interview that he never went off and most his cycles were Orals.. Said the only thing that made him back off once was pissing blood after decades nonstop.. He eventually had a heart attack.. Ironagers were human.. No different than us.. Some abused and some came off.. But many did not have the knowledge about the adverse effects like we do today.. And many more fib about what they took.. Most weren't dealing in SLIN and HGH plus the added peptides.. And cycling ( a specific time frame) was used much more often back then.. But not by all.. So in regards to your question some got blood work and sme DIDNT.. Just like today.. But today people disregard the obvious signs.. If you have constant fatigue.. Need stimulants to get through every workout.. Feel bloated and just generally unhealthy it's time to back off.. Side effects are just that.. Side effects and they are not meant to be a good sign..

That's some scary stuff right there. Really blows my mind that so many would throw caution to the wind like that. A new school guy I know of that doesn't do blood work is--and I hate to say his name sometimes--Bostin Loyd. He only ran bloods recently because Tony for EA made him lol.

Stories like this is exactly what I mean. So sad we have to go through this, and god forbid we try to challenge the "experts." Medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the USA and that's just for general patients.

I am actually leaning toward not going to the doctor anymore unless absolutely necessary. I've rarely had a good experience and my health insurance doesn't make it easy to change docs. If you don't like one, you only get one chance to switch each quarter.

 

[nothuman]

That's some scary stuff right there. Really blows my mind that so many would throw caution to the wind like that. A new school guy I know of that doesn't do blood work is--and I hate to say his name sometimes--Bostin Loyd. He only ran bloods recently because Tony for EA made him lol.



I am actually leaning toward not going to the doctor anymore unless absolutely necessary. I've rarely had a good experience and my health insurance doesn't make it easy to change docs. If you don't like one, you only get one chance to switch each quarter.

Only reason I go to doctors is because my health insurance covers all my bloodwork and echo cardiograms, etc. and prescribes my TRT when I need them. Having to get referrals from my primary care doctor to see specialists is always a pain. I've spent so much time on the phone getting the run around.

 

[Elvia1023]

Everyone has pretty much covered everything but I wanted to add something that goes away from the subject alittle. It's just something I have noticed from talking to many people over the years I feel I can safely state many (not all) think most peoples (no drugs/aas) blood work is fine and when you start taking aas that can basically worsen it. Obviously some are less ignorant but still blame AAS for many things. But even for what you would consider a "normal guy" their blood work can be all over the place. Just like you get millions of guys with HCT or blood pressure issues who have never touched aas. That's why I always say to people get bloodwork done before going on gear. Getting your cholesterol tested after 6 weeks of 80mg avar per day is not going to tell someone too much. Now if he knew is baseline/standard cholesterol numbers before avar that would tell a lot.

Steroids definitely mess up things but genetics plays a massive role and it seems many can run fairly high doses without the likes of red/white blood count, kidneys and liver never being an issue. We are only human though so the more we do the more possible damage over the years. I have known guys to run high dose orals for years and they are fine after 10-20 but you know they will likely regret it eventually.

Advancements in technology, testing and knowledge can enable us to effectively monitor many things so we would be idiots to use lot's of AAS and not atleast get regular blood work done. Although as everyone knows you could have perfect bloodwork and drop dead the next day but it does bring me some peace of mind knowing were most of my health markers stand and what I need to do to improve my overall health.

 

[needthepump]

^ Great post. I have taken vital signs and done assessments, and seen scans / imaging on hundreds of patients over the years and so many are at risk for an early death. Metabolic Syndrome (high blood pressure, a rising fasting blood sugar, abdominal fat storage, high triglycerides, high LDL) is a serious condition that we are seeing more and more of in this day and age with obesity so prevelant. These people have never touched a AAS.

They slide from obesity with hypertension to prediabetic to type 2 diabetes so quickly. This is even happening with patients who are overweight and not obese. The result is a person at high risk for cardiac and kidneys issues.

Genetics do play a factor. Dexter Jackson has been competing at the highest level for an extremely long time. He seems healthy but most people can't compete with the elites for so long.

The key for the rest of us is prevention and damage control. Many supplements are life savers. A baby asprin here, fish / krill oil there etc etc. Listening to our bodies is so important.

Yes, many doctors don't know much about AAS or this lifestyle. Heck the physician desk reference use to say under testosterone that it "had no performance enhancing abilities." I do wonder if the current editions have rightfully changed that.

 

[Elvia1023]

^ Great post. I have taken vital signs and done assessments, and seen scans / imaging on hundreds of patients over the years and so many are at risk for an early death. Metabolic Syndrome (high blood pressure, a rising fasting blood sugar, abdominal fat storage, high triglycerides, high LDL) is a serious condition that we are seeing more and more of in this day and age with obesity so prevelant. These people have never touched a AAS.

They slide from obesity with hypertension to prediabetic to type 2 diabetes so quickly. This is even happening with patients who are overweight and not obese. The result is a person at high risk for cardiac and kidneys issues.

Genetics do play a factor. Dexter Jackson has been competing at the highest level for an extremely long time. He seems healthy but most people can't compete with the elites for so long.

The key for the rest of us is prevention and damage control. Many supplements are life savers. A baby asprin here, fish / krill oil there etc etc. Listening to our bodies is so important.

Yes, many doctors don't know much about AAS or this lifestyle. Heck the physician desk reference use to say under testosterone that it "had no performance enhancing abilities." I do wonder if the current editions have rightfully changed that.

I am curious about your thoughts regarding my bloodwork. I basically have perfect bloodwork (liver, kidney's, rbc, wbc, inflammation, insulin etc) expect for near zero HDL. I know that is very bad but doctors only recommend statins when LDL etc are high with low HDL. My LDL and triglycerides are also low. It's my own fault due to my liking of oral aas. I did get my number higher but still awful and just restarted some orals. I will be taking a long break after this current cycle and won't use orals for a long time. I am just curious on your stance with low HDL when everything else is "fine". I need to test particle size but if it's zero I guess that's irrelavant

I know the answer to my own question but figured I would ask your views. I know I simply have to tsay off orals and see how high I can get my HDL. If it's still an issue then look at other options. I take great herbal supplements which have helped my LDL and trigs a lot (citrus bergamot, sytrinol, fish/krill oil, ubiquinol etc).

 

[needthepump]

Most of us on TRT struggle to keep our HDL over 35 (normal being >40). I once had a surprise blood test from my doctor in the middle of a test and 60mg of tbol cycle. My HDL came back at 7, ldl and total were high and my cardiac risk was off the charts "the highest he ever saw." That scared me away from orals, although years later I tried anavar.

I highly recommend the NMR lipoprofile test to see your actual LDL particle size and amount even with a bad HDL. I just got mine done and I had good and bad news. The good news is my LDL are large and more likely to float through the vessels and not get stuck to the lining of them, causing inflammation, triggering plaque build up if oxidized.

The bad news is my LDL particle amount is very high. Statin drugs could lower the ldl particle amount which is good but the side effects of them (rough on liver, the muscle break down, strip the heart of CQ10 etc). The LDL particle size is genetic. The people truly at high risk for heart disease have large amounts of LDL particles that are small. For them a statin would be worth it.

You should do the NMR lipoprofile test after giving the body a break, especially from orals. It will kick
out a calculation
that it calls your insulin resistance number. Because my HDL was 31, my LDL total was 170, and total Cholesterol 222....my insulin resistance number was 50 (1 best - 100 worst.) The test is about $160 through private md labs.com and well worth it.

That is great your main tests are normal. And I think your HDL will creep up when your off the orals and go to a low Cruise or TRT.

 

[Elvia1023]

Most of us on TRT struggle to keep our HDL over 35 (normal being >40). I once had a surprise blood test from my doctor in the middle of a test and 60mg of tbol cycle. My HDL came back at 7, ldl and total were high and my cardiac risk was off the charts "the highest he ever saw." That scared me away from orals, although years later I tried anavar.

I highly recommend the NMR lipoprofile test to see your actual LDL particle size and amount even with a bad HDL. I just got mine done and I had good and bad news. The good news is my LDL are large and more likely to float through the vessels and not get stuck to the lining of them, causing inflammation, triggering plaque build up if oxidized.

The bad news is my LDL particle amount is very high. Statin drugs could lower the ldl particle amount which is good but the side effects of them (rough on liver, the muscle break down, strip the heart of CQ10 etc). The LDL particle size is genetic. The people truly at high risk for heart disease have large amounts of LDL particles that are small. For them a statin would be worth it.

You should do the NMR lipoprofile test after giving the body a break, especially from orals. It will kick
out a calculation
that it calls your insulin resistance number. Because my HDL was 31, my LDL total was 170, and total Cholesterol 222....my insulin resistance number was 50 (1 best - 100 worst.) The test is about $160 through private md labs.com and well worth it.

That is great your main tests are normal. And I think your HDL will creep up when your off the orals and go to a low Cruise or TRT.

Thanks for the reply it's appreciated. I am not in the US but will get that test done in the future. Gonna carry my cycle on another month then go on 150mg test for awhile. Even when I bulk next I will just use injectables and get regular blood tests to see where I am. I know what I have to do I would honestly rather do a 500mg max dose cycle with 40mg tbol or avar in it than 2g's of injectable only. Although I am not stating my HDL would be any better with higher dosed injectable only but it definitely seems to be an oral issue for me when it comes to HDL. I think you are right about my HDL getting back up. My diet is good and I will be doing cardio plus the cholesterol supplements so on TRT I can see it climbing pretty fast. The issue is keeping it there so I may have to change some of my ways

 

[BigMatt]

Once thing i noticed, Is that guys from the 70's didnt seem to develop gyno, like guys like today.

Maybe its diet related.

I know they didnt eat high Carb in the 70's. It was high protein,High fat and low carbs.

Maybe related, or May not, not sure.

 

[jeetsun7]

Once thing i noticed, Is that guys from the 70's didnt seem to develop gyno, like guys like today.

Maybe its diet related.

I know they didnt eat high Carb in the 70's. It was high protein,High fat and low carbs.

Maybe related, or May not, not sure.

Some did the low carb back then, not everyone. Ric Drasin talks about low carb back in the day with Robby Robinson, but Robby contradicts himself saying he ate a bunch of bread and potatoes, that's certainly not low carb. I think Arnold did low carb during competitions, others have stated he ate whatever the hell he wanted in the off season, carbs a plenty. Serge Nubret was renknowned for eating one meal per day of 6-8lbs of horse meat with a shitload of rice and beans. Its interesting to read about each guys individual diet strategy.

 

[nothuman]

I am curious about your thoughts regarding my bloodwork. I basically have perfect bloodwork (liver, kidney's, rbc, wbc, inflammation, insulin etc) expect for near zero HDL. I know that is very bad but doctors only recommend statins when LDL etc are high with low HDL. My LDL and triglycerides are also low. It's my own fault due to my liking of oral aas. I did get my number higher but still awful and just restarted some orals. I will be taking a long break after this current cycle and won't use orals for a long time. I am just curious on your stance with low HDL when everything else is "fine". I need to test particle size but if it's zero I guess that's irrelavant

I know the answer to my own question but figured I would ask your views. I know I simply have to tsay off orals and see how high I can get my HDL. If it's still an issue then look at other options. I take great herbal supplements which have helped my LDL and trigs a lot (citrus bergamot, sytrinol, fish/krill oil, ubiquinol etc).

I know you asked him but I would do an NMR lipoprofile panel and Pl-PLA2 on your next blood test to see how much that 0 HDL is really hurting.

Lp-PLA2 Activity

 

[XstarchildX]

Awesome posts in here, fellas.

I can echo what needthepump said about hdl on TRT. Mine only gets up to around 35-38 whilst on TRT (sub 200mg a week) and much lower when I run tren or orals. The lowest I've seen with myself was 14 for my HDL, yet my LDL was under 100 at that point. I donated blood a few weeks back and it gives you a "total cholesterol" number and mine was 161. I'm assuming only 30-40 of that is HDL and the rest is LDL. Probably puts me "at risk" based on the ratio.

 

[old timer]

AI can echo what needthepump said about hdl on TRT. Mine only gets up to around 35-38 whilst on TRT (sub 200mg a week) and much lower when I run tren or orals.

Interesting. What is it normally when off?

 

[XstarchildX]

Interesting. What is it normally when off?

I don't go off (I'm on TRT). I remember it being around 54 or something back in the day (when I was early 20's and natural).