Bodybuilding 15 years, never seen my abs

[JKeller81]

I want to give you some background, if you just want the short version of my problem skip to the pound signs below

Early 30's, at it for 15 years, mostly natural except for a year or so when i was about 22-24 (don't remember). My T was really low (sub 300) so i'm on TRT as of recently and sitting around 950 ng/dl.... feel better.

Can't post pics due to my job and several unique tattoos, I will give accurate stats and measurements though.

As of now I'm 5'7, 184 with 32.5 waist.... chest 46, arms 17, legs 25, arms 17.... typically small-framed natty build. At my biggest I've bulked up to 206 with a 35 inch waist.

No longer squat or dead due to disc degeneration but my best squat was 460, best dead was 535 and best bench was 295.... not singles, maybe 4-6 reps or so.

######

Ok to the actual point, I've taken all sorts of approach to cutting and have never seen my abs, never get any definition.... I just lose and lose weight and size but I still have a double chin, still look all soft, not even a hint of an ab line anywhere.

I said ok, I "reversed dieted" for about a year and a half. That's when I got up to 206 with a 35 inch waist and was eating about 4,200kcal per day. Pretty damn good I thought, did a nice, slow cut ..... down to 4000, nothing... down to 3800, nothing..... down to 3400, nothing...... I feel like that whole reverse dieting was BS because at the end of the day I still had to eventually drop back down to around 1600-1800 calories

The big issues is that at 1600 calories, I still have really thick skin, no abs at all, fat face, no definition anywhere really...... what do I have to do? Drop to 800 calories? At 1600 it's just no longer do-able.... if I was shredded it'd be a different story, but to still look 15% at 1600 calories after a good 6 month cut... something ain't right.

Strength is fine, even at 1600kcal I never lose any strength and still keep gaining (because I still have plenty of body fat on me)

I was sure it would be my thyroid but that came out fine. Docs didn't think it was a big deal since my waist was about 29.5 and my arms were 17, chest was actually 47 at that point....... but something isn't right, at that tine of a waist, on nearly starvation, while still gaining strength, I should in theory be pretty damn lean no?

If anyone can suggest anything other than thyroid for me to get checked out I'm all ears because it's ridiculous that after 15 plus years of super healthy living, pretty decent strength gains, keeping my waist under 32 at all times these past few years etc. i still have never even seen a hint of my abs.

 

[inspector200]

What foods are you eating?

 

[jrock00123]

I would suggest working with a trainer. There are a couple of great guys here that can help. It's really not that expensive especially given you experienced 15 years of trail and error. Check into John Meadows.

 

[little slice]

you don't have thick skin, you're just fat





not trying to be a dick, that's just how it is.


I guarantee you that you were not dieting properly.. sure, from a calorie perspective, you might have been doing things right, but not all calories are created equal.


id 2nd hiring a coach to get you sorted out.

 

[JKeller81]

I've thought about it, just don't want to waste these bigger name guys time since I'm not competing.

As far as foods, the typical bro foods, i've tried both very high carb and ketogenic, no difference with either one.

Like I said i literally dip into the 1600-1800 calorie range and at that point I'm at about a 29.5-30 inch waist and still not even an outline of abs, lots of thick skin on my stomach, bloated face, no delt/chest separation, quads smooth as can be. I've never gone any lower than that because I don't want to put my body in danger but it just doesn't seem right.... most of my buddies of similar height/stats are pretty much stage-condition around 1700-2000 calories.

I've started dieting from both 2600 calories when I tried to stay leaner to see if that would help and from over 4000 calories when I did Layne Norton's reverse dieting for over a year...... end result still the same, I end up around 1600-1800 calories, small, soft, no strength loss though.

The only issue is that my test was really low and like I said i've just been on TRT for a few weeks and went from mid 200's to 950ng/dl....... I'm really hoping that's been the issue, I want to give it a good 3-6 months on the TRT to see if I notice anything changes before I start messing with other variables. I'm sure being below 300ng/dl for who knows how long must have had some ill effects on my metabolism.

 

[JKeller81]

you don't have thick skin, you're just fat

Oh totally, I agree with you.... I was just trying to describe my skin thickness since I don't do calipers.

Just weird having a 29.5 waist (no vaccum/flexed) and still being fat.

 

[little slice]

ok. well what I was trying to get at, is there really is no such thing as "thick skin"..

that's just an excuse that fatties make up.



do you train your abs at all? if you don't train them, you can't expect them to be there.. and no, squats and deadlifts don't count.

 

[JKeller81]

ok. well what I was trying to get at, is there really is no such thing as "thick skin"..

that's just an excuse that fatties make up.



do you train your abs at all? if you don't train them, you can't expect them to be there.. and no, squats and deadlifts don't count.

Yes I do weighted leg raises, roll-outs, planks and pikes. Was never a fan of crunches as you can tell.

But it's not just my abs.... my legs legs shouldn't be smooth, i shouldn't have three chins and a bloated face etc. at 1600 calories unless I had crash dieted, which I've never done, quite the opposite, I try to lose 1lb a month at times to play it safe since my metabolism seems so delicate.

I don't know if due to my super low test levels my body was just holding on to fat or what. Any of the more well respected guys here have a good ebook? I'd be glad to buy it and give it a read, I want to stay on TRT for a good 90 days before hiring a coach to see what changes I notice..... psychologically it's already night and day, I'm SO hungry all the time now too.... physical changes i still have not noticed.

 

[pesty4077]

I have to see pictures to even give you right advice. You can block the face off. I need too know everything you do too. Training, supplements, AAS, recent bloodwork, DIET you are on now in detail, etc. For a trainer to be successful with his client. The client has to listen to what the trainer is telling you. You also have to be 100% honest.

 

[JKeller81]

ok. well what I was trying to get at, is there really is no such thing as "thick skin"..

that's just an excuse that fatties make up.



do you train your abs at all? if you don't train them, you can't expect them to be there.. and no, squats and deadlifts don't count.

Yes I do weighted leg raises, roll-outs, planks and pikes. Was never a fan of crunches as you can tell.

But it's not just my abs.... my legs legs shouldn't be smooth, i shouldn't have three chins and a bloated face etc. at 1600 calories unless I had crash dieted, which I've never done, quite the opposite, I try to lose 1lb a month at times to play it safe since my metabolism seems so delicate.

I don't know if due to my super low test levels my body was just holding on to fat or what. Any of the more well respected guys here have a good ebook? I'd be glad to buy it and give it a read, I want to stay on TRT for a good 90 days before hiring a coach to see what changes I notice..... psychologically it's already night and day, I'm SO hungry all the time now too.... physical changes i still have not noticed.

 

[Phidias]

JKeller,

You just keep talking about Kcals and how you reduced or even increased them during that so called "reverse diet"... but what were your MACROS looking like % wise? What type of foods did/do you eat?

Total kcals are of course part of the equation, but actually mean very little when all factors are taken into account (body type, hormonal balance/imbalance, metabolism, etc...).

What about your workouts/cardio? Your plan might also be very ineffective in that field. Most of the time people think they train well, when it's obviously far from being the case...

Seems like you're really lost. Best advice I could give you would be to hire a prep guy like SHELBY (or yes, John Meadows as already mentioned, just choose yours) to start it all again. Don't worry, they work with everybody, not just competitors.

 

[Phidias]

ok. well what I was trying to get at, is there really is no such thing as "thick skin"..

that's just an excuse that fatties make up.

THICK SKIN... LOL... I must have heard this term literally thousands of times over the years from people not willing to diet HARDER (and smarter)...

 

[b_cornelius]

my legs legs shouldn't be smooth, i shouldn't have three chins and a bloated face etc...I don't know if due to my super low test levels my body was just holding on to fat or what.

Is this gonna be another one where OP tells us that he has low T and a small penis?

I was just reading a post on ANASCI. The OP just set it all out on the table, small penis and everything.

I don't even know what's real anymore. Is this a joke?

 

[Jizzmo]

The big issues is that at 1600 calories, I still have really thick skin, no abs at all, fat face, no definition anywhere really...... what do I have to do? Drop to 800 calories? At 1600 it's just no longer do-able.... if I was shredded it'd be a different story, but to still look 15% at 1600 calories after a good 6 month cut... something ain't right.

But it's not just my abs.... my legs legs shouldn't be smooth, i shouldn't have three chins and a bloated face etc. at 1600 calories unless I had crash dieted, which I've never done, quite the opposite, I try to lose 1lb a month at times to play it safe since my metabolism seems so delicate.

so you dieted for 6 months losing 1lb a month and expected to be shredded in the end?

you were still just as fat after your cuts because you didnt even cut.

if you start at 20% BF and lose 1lb a month it would probably take 3 years for you to get shredded

aim for 2 lbs weight loss A WEEK

just dropping 50% carbs out of your diet should make you lose 10lbs or so within 2 weeks ...

1 lb a month, how do you even track that
i take a shit and weigh 2 lbs less, how do you measure a 1lb a month weight loss lol...

the most important thing to realize is that YOU ARE NO SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE .
dieting sucks for all of us. if it was easy everyone would be shredded.
it doesnt matter how low you have to drop calories, just do it.
take t3, ECA, clen if you need to.

not trying to be an asshole but gotta stay true here :headbang:

 

[wizim]

EVERYONE has abs. you wont see them until the fat is gone.

it wont kill you to do a major calorie deficient diet to drop some pounds. so what if you lose a little bit of muscle mass in doing so.
i went from 200lbs with zero ab definition to 180 ripped in 30 days when i finally decided i was sick of being fat. this was ~6 years ago. ive had defined abs since and ive gained plenty of muscle in that time.

 

[rippedyearround]

Something to think about:

If you're not losing strength...you're probably not dieting hard enough...

That said, when you cut, you have to be willing to put "getting shredded" as the #1 priority, and everything else comes second. It really sucks, but if you've never seen your abs in 15 years of training, YOU NEED THIS.

Even if you have to be 140lbs...GET THOSE ABS!!!

 

[NGL34]

I have to see pictures to even give you right advice. You can block the face off. I need too know everything you do too. Training, supplements, AAS, recent bloodwork, DIET you are on now in detail, etc. For a trainer to be successful with his client. The client has to listen to what the trainer is telling you. You also have to be 100% honest.

Wonder if he even took progressive photos or even before and after photos of each phase of the diets. Pics don't lie, the measuring type does.

 

[epoxy]

Tren + T3 at maintenance calories doing daily cardio and lifting

If you aren't losing a pound of fat a week on this then there is something wrong with you.

I lost 25lbs in less than 90 days with this formula. 100mg tren ace ED + 50mcg t3 eating about 2500 calories a day with 45 minutes of fasted LISS burning about 600 calories per session then a 45m-1hr lift session every night.

Went from a 33 waist to a 29 in about 70 days

 

[Queefer]

You guys think he's for real?

Gullible much?

 

[little slice]

just seemed like the typical newb who just began lifting.





didn't seem out of the ordinary for the 2015 crop so far.