Carb cycling for fat loss - constant insulin use on medium and high days?

[thethinker48]

I've worked with JH and used Humalog on high carb days with no direct fats

As you get leaner, and more insulin sensitive, even 2-3 ius can make you go hypo with 100+ grams of carbs so eventually you can't do it all the way through to the last weeks (depending on the person)

 

[bbxtreme]

Somehow this thread has gone completely sideways, but has yielded some good studies.

There is a really simple way to determine if and how much insulin someone needs to take. I didn’t cover this in my insulin thread, but figured I will here to dumb it down.

On average a 100kg (220lb) person with a healthy fasting glucose level will produce 55 units of insulin daily from their pancreas.

Each unit of insulin will cover about 10g of carbohydrates.

Therefore, a 220lb healthy bodybuilder can eat up to 550g of carbs per day and need no additional insulin as their body will cover it.

So how do I know if I could benefit from insulin or if I should use it?
If you eat more carbohydrates in a day then your pancreas produces you can use insulin to reduce the burden and further utilize the nutrients you’re consuming.

If that 220lb bodybuilder has a high day and takes in 700-800g of carbs on those days then he will need an extra 15-25 iu insulin produced daily to match carbohydrate intake from the pancreas.

So next time someone ask “should I use insulin, need it, or how much” save this damn post because it is the closest exact answer you’re going to get to calculating it based on your body’s needs and stats.

 

[intensevolume1]

Umm I think it does……stuff……

In fully differentiated, mature skeletal muscles of humans and rodents, insulin receptor expression predominates over that of the insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) receptor (O’Neill et al., 2016). Underscoring insulin’s importance for muscle mass regulation, depletion of the skeletal muscle insulin receptor in mice caused a 20% loss of tissue mass, while IGF-1 receptor depletion did not (Mavalli et al., 2010; O’Neill et al., 2016). In humans, hyperinsulinemia elevates muscle protein synthesis rates under conditions of hyperaminoacidemia and independently inhibits protein breakdown in this tissue (Abdulla et al., 2016).

Some evidence that suggests it doesn't isn't the claim that there is no evidence that it does.
I'll dig and find the studies.

 

[juggy38]

so insulin is actually catabolic.


guess i wont be using it ty for the posts

I’m sorry I failed you son.

 

[juggy38]

@TheOtherOne55 used to frequent old dat b true.

Many played around with small doses post workout without carbs during a extremely hard cutting phase to help anabolism in a less-than optimal environment.

It worked. But it was such a pain in the ass to get the dosage right. And the hunger was knarly when your post meal was 60g whey isolate and 2-3iu insulin.

 

[bbxtreme]

Maybe I can add some real life application here to settle this. In my entire prep this season I have used insulin ONE day. It was a re-feed after a hard drop. The carbs warranted it.

In my last prep with AJ we used it twice and was in the same context.

The only other place I would use it in a cut is 1-2 units pre workout IF you’re using injectable carnitine.

 

[need4tren]

Don’t worry about muscle loss if you’re on a bunch of anabolics. Flatness and muscle loss is totally different. If you’re in a deficit you’ll be flat. If you’re in a deficit your body won’t be storing glucose. Get the fat off and go back to putting on size

 

[Fleezy]

Don’t worry about muscle loss if you’re on a bunch of anabolics. Flatness and muscle loss is totally different. If you’re in a deficit you’ll be flat. If you’re in a deficit your body won’t be storing glucose. Get the fat off and go back to putting on size

Is any of this actually true? - besides muscle loss and flatness being different.. that much is obvious IMO

Not trying to throw shade

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Don’t worry about muscle loss if you’re on a bunch of anabolics. Flatness and muscle loss is totally different. If you’re in a deficit you’ll be flat. If you’re in a deficit your body won’t be storing glucose. Get the fat off and go back to putting on size

Uh what?

 

[need4tren]

Uh what?

Your body can’t store glycogen in a deficit. How does that not make sense? lol

 

[Unluckyscience]

Your body can’t store glycogen in a deficit. How does that not make sense? lol

It does. But not too much.
Every time you eat carbs you are fulling your glycogen stores.

 

[intensevolume1]

It does. But not too much.
Every time you eat carbs you are fulling your glycogen stores.

If you're in a deficit you're utilizing calories not storing calories.

 

[Unluckyscience]

If you're in a deficit you're utilizing calories not storing calories.

Calorie consumption is something else than storing glycogen. They are related but not dependent.
When you eat carbs, does it directly get shuttled to glycolysis for energy production?
So if you have had 100 grams of carbs they are directly used to produce 400 calories to be burned based on what you suggest.
This is not the case, a part of carbs you eat is directly converted to glucose and taken up by the cells for energy production. But liver and muscle glycogen are also replenished for future energy needs otherwise you will not be able to do high intensity workouts which consume more glycogen than free fatty acids.

 

[Fleezy]

I heard you actually gain calories if you walk backwards

Is there any truth to this?

 

[intensevolume1]

Calorie consumption is something else than storing glycogen. They are related but not dependent.
When you eat carbs, does it directly get shuttled to glycolysis for energy production?
So if you have had 100 grams of carbs they are directly used to produce 400 calories to be burned based on what you suggest.
This is not the case, a part of carbs you eat is directly converted to glucose and taken up by the cells for energy production. But liver and muscle glycogen are also replenished for future energy needs otherwise you will not be able to do high intensity workouts which consume more glycogen than free fatty acids.

Right. Okay when you are in a caloric deficit for long enough you become glycogen depleted regardless of the amount of carbs you're consuming that's why carb cycling works well.
You will deplete muscle and liver stores. Glycogen is the bodies preferred energy source. It will use glycogen first. Then it will start converting amino acids to use as glycogen. This happens because in a deficit you're not storing energy.

You don't think people on keto can train hard?

 

[luki7788]

There is no way to completely deplete my glycogen reserves if I continue to eat carbohydrates. Resources will be depleted, but it will not be that you are completely empty

 

[intensevolume1]

There is no way to completely deplete my glycogen reserves if I continue to eat carbohydrates. Resources will be depleted, but it will not be that you are completely empty

Yes because you are eating enough carbs to cover what you're using. If you were using 400g of carbs but only eating 50 then you would deplete down to the amount you're replenishing

 

[intensevolume1]

Then you would start utilizing amino acids

 

[bbxtreme]

There is no way to completely deplete my glycogen reserves if I continue to eat carbohydrates. Resources will be depleted, but it will not be that you are completely empty

Thank you. I am too tired from this damn prep to chime in, but this

 

[intensevolume1]

Maybe I'm being reductive or missing something. If so I'd absolutely appreciate the correction