Carb cycling for fat loss - constant insulin use on medium and high days?

[luki7788]

90% of my athletes use insulin throughout their preparations at least twice a day, so according to this theory they shouldn't shape or lose fat at all lol

not to mention cluturists who are insulin-dependent diabetics lol - they shouldn't exist

 

[3BILLS]

I’d be curious to hear more about this since exogenous insulin turns off lipolysis while the slin is active.

Check out his thread. Lots of good info

 

[juggy38]

I’d be curious to hear more about this since exogenous insulin turns off lipolysis while the slin is active.

Here’s an easy way to think about it. Insulin is not a on/off switch to fat loss like the standard bathroom light switch. It’s like the fancy dimmer knobs that you can slowly turn from low to high.

Morbidly obese and type 2 diabetics can have some very high FASTING insulin levels, and post-prandial (after meal) insulin levels take forever to go down.

They can still lose bodyfat….its harder and slower, and the ratio of fat/amino acid/glycogen is skewed to sub-optimal compared to a metabolic healthy individual

 

[juggy38]

And just to add a little more….in obese, mitochondrial dysfunction, elevated IM triglycerides, and other things are working against them.

Take a healthy BB…on androgens and especially hgh…. exogenous insulin won’t completely abolish fat oxidation.

Will you be burning fat in the 2-3h window after humalog? Unlikely. But a few hours later, even with some
Insulin lingering, there will be fat oxidation.

Hell even in healthy individuals, it takes about 12-14h of a total fast to get insulin levels Rock bottom of what your body will allow. That’s why IF was such the craze for fat loss.

All of us lose fat (well, maybe not ALL lol) with multiple mixed meals throughout the day.

 

[bbxtreme]

I’d be curious to hear more about this since exogenous insulin turns off lipolysis while the slin is active.

“Insulin controls the function of Hormone Sensitive Lipase (HSL), which is a multifunctional enzyme that participates in fatty acid metabolism (this is where the whole insulin theory of fat loss got completely taken out of context).

If insulin is misused and there is a degree of insulin insensitivity on skeletal muscle cells, there will be an increased rate of adipogenesis (adipose tissue formation, get fat) as Insulin has important factors on regulating adipocytes and insulin will just dispose of glucose into fat cells instead.”

Insulin and Insulin Receptors in Adipose Tissue Development

Insulin is a major endocrine hormone also involved in the regulation of energy and lipid metabolism via the activation of an intracellular signaling cascade involving the insulin receptor (INSR), insulin receptor substrate (IRS) proteins, phosphoinositol ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

When you’re in a deficit this will not take place.

In regards to lypolysis I have discussed it in my insulin thread on here and talked about the role HGH plays there as it promotes it.

 

[m302_imola]

And just to add a little more….in obese, mitochondrial dysfunction, elevated IM triglycerides, and other things are working against them.

Take a healthy BB…on androgens and especially hgh…. exogenous insulin won’t completely abolish fat oxidation.

Will you be burning fat in the 2-3h window after humalog? Unlikely. But a few hours later, even with some
Insulin lingering, there will be fat oxidation.

Hell even in healthy individuals, it takes about 12-14h of a total fast to get insulin levels Rock bottom of what your body will allow. That’s why IF was such the craze for fat loss.

All of us lose fat (well, maybe not ALL lol) with multiple mixed meals throughout the day.

This was exactly my point. That 2-3 hr window after log would toggle the body toward anabolism/anticatabolic. And not an ideal environment for lipolysis to rear its’ head. Doesn’t mean you couldn’t pull that lever back to fatloss at another point during that day. Just isn’t going to really happen while the exogenous slin is active.

I use slin during fatloss/recomp periods mainly on refeed days, but I’m also an ecto so levering it preworkout some days helps with MPD and helps ensure I’m not breaking down as much muscle tissue during intense lifting sessions.

I remember you on DAT’s forum Juggy so good to see you again. Like DAT always preached, the toggling approach really is useful. Periods of fatloss and anabolism. Anyhow, I wasn’t able to quote all that replied but I do appreciate all that chimed in.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

This thread has been a wild read

 

[need4tren]

Tour de France. I think 21 day with only 2 days rest. On rest day they still do ride. Depending on how many time trial, generally no more than two. They are on the bike for around 6 hours a day. There is no way they can eat enough calories over the 3 weeks.

they arnt in a calorie deficit, it’s like Mike phelps the swimmer would eat “8k calories for breakfast” it wasn’t 8k but he still got all his calories in. And these Tour de France are constantly sipping on glucose the entire race.

 

[Fleezy]

In regards to lypolysis I have discussed it in my insulin thread on here and talked about the role HGH plays there as it promotes it.

can you link the post(s)?

 

[Pull Freak]

If I remember correctly an elite cyclist can only process between 60-100 carbs in a hour on the bike. Add in the heat trying to stay on top of hydration day after day I can not see how they can get in the calories. After a 6 hour day they get on a trainer to spin out the legs and then massage. After all of that they start eating normally nothing but carbs. Like I said the race is 21 days straight. They easily average 300 watts for 6 hours. not counting the hard efforts of 450 plus watts over 30 minutes.

I check one of my old rides. 306 watts for 2 hours was 2100 calories burned. Measured from a power meter 99 percent accurate.

Check out some pic of grand tour rider at the start of the race vs 21 days later when they complete the tour.

I’m not saying I’m right and you are wrong but I can’t see them pounding 6-8000 calories in a short window then do it again the next day.

 

[bbxtreme]

can you link the post(s)?

I love you guys on here, but I am not going to search my own post for you.

Search my post history in the search bar.

Studies are even easier to find…

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00620.2020#:~:text=Insulin%20primarily%20inhibits%20lipolysis%20stimulation,(mTORC1)%20that%20inhibits%20ATGL.

Anti-Lipolysis Induced by Insulin in Diverse Pathophysiologic Conditions of Adipose Tissue - PMC

As an important energy reservoir, adipose tissue maintains lipid balance and regulates energy metabolism. When the body requires energy, adipocytes provide fatty acids to peripheral tissues through lipolysis. Insulin plays an important role in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Fleezy]

Isn’t exogenous insulin more anabolic/anti-catabolic than our normal pancreatic production?

 

[luki7788]

Isn’t exogenous insulin more anabolic/anti-catabolic than our normal pancreatic production?

Yes because they have higher affinity with the igf receptor