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Cardiac Effects of Lifting

MKSuccess500

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We all think about exercising as a great benefit to our health, and generally speaking that’s true, but many of us here are lifting in some serious poundages. AAS aside, what are the true structural changes to the heart that are happening to us with this lifting?

With the recent passing of Rich and Dallas, and Maldorf’s great posts on here there have been numerous discussions on lifting in general affecting the heart.

What are your thoughts? From a health standpoint are we better lifting lighter? Is a 3-5 rep set more damaging to the heart compared to a 12-15 rep set if both are taken to complete failure? Should we be avoiding the valsalva maneuver? And if these changes are happening to our heart due to lifting, are they necessarily a problem given that people who weight train do tend to live longer?
 

maldorf

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LVH happens and is well documented in weight lifters, but I haven't seen any literature to suggest that it shortens the lifespan. While you lift you do want to do whatever you can to lower the amount of work your heart has to do, and that would be accomplished mostly by trying to keep down bp. You mentioned the Valsalva maneuver and that is something you don't want to do for sure. That puts a lot of pressure on the dorsal aorta which raises the pressure there and make it harder for your heart to pump the blood out through it.

So proper breathing is important to do. When I got my clot squatting I am not sure if I did much of a Valsalva or not, but I wouldn't doubt I did some. Really hard not to do it a bit. Now when I squat I go light weight and try to always breathe out when I am coming up.

When I had my clot I was doing 455 lbs for about 10 reps, so to me it was a fairly light weight at the time. I am sure though that it put a lot of pressure on the aorta.
 
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ALLEX

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With the recent passing of Rich and Dallas

Lifting is the last reason these people passed.

Being overweight, bb drugs, apnea, recreational drugs (in Rich's case), high BP, thick blood, overeating and a whole plethora of things come before the simple fact that both of them lifted weights.

Lifting is good for you. And our bodies won't let us get too big or too heavy that our health will be compromised. You achieve that by unnatural mechanisms.

And valsalva is a no no...
 

Beti ona

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Why are people so hypochondriac?
 

MKSuccess500

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Lifting is the last reason these people passed.

Being overweight, bb drugs, apnea, recreational drugs (in Rich's case), high BP, thick blood, overeating and a whole plethora of things come before the simple fact that both of them lifted weights.

Lifting is good for you. And our bodies won't let us get too big or too heavy that our health will be compromised. You achieve that by unnatural mechanisms.

And valsalva is a no no...

I am sure all of the things you listed are much more of a factor than lifting heavy was for them, but I do still wonder how much the heavy lifting could have exacerbated things.

Like you said, valsalva is a no no, and yet almost everyone who lifts heavy does it. I don't think I've ever once in all the articles I've read heard someone recommend to not do it, as it's just a common/natural thing to do when you're going all out in a set

And for those of us who have used gear, I just wonder if it's even more important to avoid excessive lifting strain
 

nothuman

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LVH happens and is well documented in weight lifters, but I haven't seen any literature to suggest that it shortens the lifespan. While you lift you do want to do whatever you can to lower the amount of work your heart has to do, and that would be accomplished mostly by trying to keep down bp. You mentioned the Valsalva maneuver and that is something you don't want to do for sure. That puts a lot of pressure on the dorsal aorta which raises the pressure there and make it harder for your heart to pump the blood out through it.

So proper breathing is important to do. When I got my clot squatting I am not sure if I did much of a Valsalva or not, but I wouldn't doubt I did some. Really hard not to do it a bit. Now when I squat I go light weight and try to always breathe out when I am coming up.

When I had my clot I was doing 455 lbs for about 10 reps, so to me it was a fairly light weight at the time. I am sure though that it put a lot of pressure on the aorta.

Lifting is the last reason these people passed.

Being overweight, bb drugs, apnea, recreational drugs (in Rich's case), high BP, thick blood, overeating and a whole plethora of things come before the simple fact that both of them lifted weights.

Lifting is good for you. And our bodies won't let us get too big or too heavy that our health will be compromised. You achieve that by unnatural mechanisms.

And valsalva is a no no...

These. There's nothing more to it.
 

maldorf

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maldorf

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I am sure all of the things you listed are much more of a factor than lifting heavy was for them, but I do still wonder how much the heavy lifting could have exacerbated things.

Like you said, valsalva is a no no, and yet almost everyone who lifts heavy does it. I don't think I've ever once in all the articles I've read heard someone recommend to not do it, as it's just a common/natural thing to do when you're going all out in a set

And for those of us who have used gear, I just wonder if it's even more important to avoid excessive lifting strain

The only problem with lifting heavy I think is once your heart or vascular system is diseased, the extra stress placed on it can cause death. So after using steroids heavily for many years those things are going to be diseased and then susceptible to the stresses of lifting really heavy. Like with someone that has an aortic root that is stretched out and ballooned, one day while squatting heavy the large pressure might actually blow it out. It might have taken many years of steroid abuse and high blood pressure to develop that issue.

I think for someone that is healthy, lifting heavy is healthy enough. I could go down to my squat rack tonight and easily make my heart got into V fib by squatting really heavy and with hard effort. That is because I have heart disease. The problem for lifters that are enhanced I think is that many don't know they have a diseased cardiovascular system and that you don't find out until something really bad happens. Wake up call.
 

Elvia1023

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I was going to post on this thread when you first posted it but I thought just leave it. I should state first it's actually a great subject and there should be some concern for certain people. As Maldorf stated anyone with a bad heart isn't helping themselves training brutally hard. But part of me thinks this is just getting ridiculous.

I value health as everyone should and there should be effort by everyone on this planet to try to live a life were they feel good all the time. On here we use aas so that is obviously bad for health so we should be taking extra steps to ensure all blood values stay in range and if they don't take necessary action. But some guys are here are just overthinking and stressing about things they shouldn't. That stress is causing more damage than any hard workout.

I am laid back but even I have been getting random thoughts about my heart recently. Those thoughts are good and should be felt as it's normal to anyone who basically doesn't want to drop dead tomorrow. But come on this is Professional muscle and thinking maybe I shouldn't train hard is just getting silly. Overthinking these things is only bad for your health. It's getting to the point some guys should just stay in as they may get hit by a car or a lightning bolt.
 

maldorf

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But come on this is Professional muscle and thinking maybe I shouldn't train hard is just getting silly. Overthinking these things is only bad for your health. It's getting to the point some guys should just stay in as they may get hit by a car or a lightning bolt.

Yes, I think training too hard is the least of what most of the members on here should worry about. It should only be a problem if you already have heart/cardiovascular trouble. Using AAS heavily is the biggest concern, and doing that for long enough can cause health problems. Only after the health problems are there would I worry about training too hard. If you are one of those guys that gets out of breathe doing dumbbell curls and if you do squats you need more than 5 minutes to recover then I might start to re-evaluate my training program. Signs like that would concern me. Waking up in the morning with a pulse of 90+ consistently day after day, maybe you should get looked at and lay off of really heavy training till you know you are fine.
 

gm96truck

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Everythinng in moderation

Use dont abuse.
And keep an eye on what else is going on, not just the size of your muscles.
Thanks
I wish great health for everyone .
 

g.r.o.w.t.h.

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Can’t even take this seriously... should we start questioning if we are training to hard? To heavy? Give me a break. I get the concern over abusing aas...but I will never worry about “training to hard”.
 

MKSuccess500

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I totally get what some of you are saying regarding overthinking but you have to consider what Maldorf said which is why I started this thread. I would never think to tell a normal healthy guy not to workout intensely, but we are not normal here. Maldorf may very well have caused more issues for himself by lifting super intensely with a bad heart before he even had a heart attack.

I guarantee a huge number of you guys using AAS have at least some degree of an enlarged heart and some atherosclerosis. If you haven’t had an echo or angiogram done then you have no idea and it’s very likely you have at least some structural changes in your heart from being heavier + using gear

So my concern is that many of us do have some mild to moderate heart disease we may or may not know about and seriously intense or heavy lifting is going to exacerbate that. At the very least I’d like to know what the potential effects are and then we can make informed decisions
 

maldorf

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I totally get what some of you are saying regarding overthinking but you have to consider what Maldorf said which is why I started this thread. I would never think to tell a normal healthy guy not to workout intensely, but we are not normal here. Maldorf may very well have caused more issues for himself by lifting super intensely with a bad heart before he even had a heart attack.

I guarantee a huge number of you guys using AAS have at least some degree of an enlarged heart and some atherosclerosis. If you haven’t had an echo or angiogram done then you have no idea and it’s very likely you have at least some structural changes in your heart from being heavier + using gear

So my concern is that many of us do have some mild to moderate heart disease we may or may not know about and seriously intense or heavy lifting is going to exacerbate that. At the very least I’d like to know what the potential effects are and then we can make informed decisions

Right, what I was thinking. If someone is using AAS for years and years and at significant doses then you might want to get yourself checked out, and pay attention to the little signs your body gives you. If someone is natural and never used AAS, then it most probably wont be a concern until a much older age.
 

musclemoose

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Listen i don't want to drop dead before its my time because of my AAS use. i do the best i can to stay healthy. But if i'm gonna pass earlier than i should due to it then i just hope its quick and over and not drawn out. That's all i ask for. Death doesnt scare me. I welcome it. We all live and die. No bid deal. But a painful long drawn out death i pray every day that's not whats in store for me. Alot of these guys that pass from AAS use seems to be instant and unexpected. Better than catching cancer or some disease at early age (or ever) any day of the week. People die doing what they love every day. These deaths in the BB world are no different. If you dont know what game your playing in then get the F out.
 
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TheOtherOne55

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What are your thoughts? From a health standpoint are we better lifting lighter? Is a 3-5 rep set more damaging to the heart compared to a 12-15 rep set if both are taken to complete failure? Should we be avoiding the valsalva maneuver? And if these changes are happening to our heart due to lifting, are they necessarily a problem given that people who weight train do tend to live longer?

Question, why would a lower reps—a more PL scheme and more in-tune with CNS activation rather than pure hypertrophy be MORE likely to cause LHV hypertrophy?

Valsalva is terrible, so definitely no to that.
 

maldorf

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Question, why would a lower reps—a more PL scheme and more in-tune with CNS activation rather than pure hypertrophy be MORE likely to cause LHV hypertrophy?

Valsalva is terrible, so definitely no to that.

Just that heavier lifting is going to cause a larger spike in BP no matter how you breathe and that puts more stress on the heart. That is what causes some of the LV hypertrophy.
 

OutToLunch

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Listen i don't want to drop dead before its my time because of my AAS use. i do the best i can to stay healthy. But if i'm gonna pass earlier than i should due to it then i just hope its quick and over and not drawn out. That's all i ask for. Death doesnt scare me. I welcome it. We all live and die. No bid deal. But a painful long drawn out death i pray every day that's not whats in store for me. Alot of these guys that pass from AAS use seems to be instant and unexpected. Better than catching cancer or some disease at early age (or ever) any day of the week. People die doing what they love every day. These deaths in the BB world are no different. If you dont know what game your playing in then get the F out.



You welcome death?!?! Why??? How old are you...?
 

g.r.o.w.t.h.

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Are we seriously discussing how heavy weights/low rep schemes create more LVH on a board where almost everyone takes aas/gh? If you are seriously worried about LVH, get away from performance enhancing drugs. The heavy lifting isn’t going to kill you. What’s next? We should all stay on gear but just do Pilates so we don’t stress/damage our cardiovascular system?
 

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