Chers daughter

[kid1dakota]

I don't care one way or another that she is becoming a man.The thing that does bother me is that to the general public and the doctors her use of large amounts of tesosterone along with her surgeries is more accepted than a bodybuilder or athlete using it.

 

[jm425]

Hypocritical? Yes. However, what can we do about it? I understand what you are saying though.

 

[Chrysler]

Hypocritical? Yes. However, what can we do about it?

Nothing, short of revolution. All in due time.

 

[iprimate]

Medical Imprimatur

I don't care one way or another that she is becoming a man.The thing that does bother me is that to the general public and the doctors her use of large amounts of tesosterone along with her surgeries is more accepted than a bodybuilder or athlete using it.

The "general publics" attitude to AAS is ambivalent and hypocritical. What makes Cher's daughter's use of testosterone "acceptable" is that her condition(?) has been medicalised/pathologised and the medical establishment has given its imprimatur to the use of AAS in these circumstances. See, Cher's daughter has Gender Dysmorphic Disorder and its good medical practice to relieve her of her symptoms by masculinising her.

 

[kid1dakota]

The "general publics" attitude to AAS is ambivalent and hypocritical. What makes Cher's daughter's use of testosterone "acceptable" is that her condition(?) has been medicalised/pathologised and the medical establishment has given its imprimatur to the use of AAS in these circumstances. See, Cher's daughter has Gender Dysmorphic Disorder and its good medical practice to relieve her of her symptoms by masculinising her.

True but they make it hell on doctors trying to treat andropause and docs trying to help men age gracefully(anti-aging).

 

[iprimate]

True but they make it hell on doctors trying to treat andropause and docs trying to help men age gracefully(anti-aging).

That is because of the ambivalence I referred to. The attitude of both the general public and the medical establishment towards masculinity and androgens is ambivalent -- its a love-hate relationship if you will. Masculinity is simultaneously adored and reviled and so too is hypermasculinity but the passions are stronger.

 

[Caladin]

this kind of back ass medical shit boils my blood. It just like woman being able to take estrogen aka the pill but god forbid we take test!

 

[the_warrior]

She's not becoming a man, she's becoming a freak

 

[robot]

I too have a gender disorder.

I am a woman inside a man's body only I'm a lesbian so I don't know it.
I clearly require testosterone therapy.

 

[Ursine Muscle]

The Polynesians didn't allow women to eat bananas. The ancient Egyptians couldn't eat certain types of fish associated with a certain god & the Jews & Muslims--as everybody knows--can't eat pork.

Opiates have been used since about 6,000 BC or more. The pyramids and Egyptian temples were built by workers on the stuff and the architects who drew up the plans--which we can't duplicate today--were stoned out of their heads with opium laced beer and a dozen other mind altering substances most of the time. (Date beer--a sugar rush.)

What we can us and can't, isn't due to medical reasons, the human body suddenly didn't change and we all become drug addicts if we use codeine cough syrup. It is all politics and control. And economics.

US society says we can take anti-depressives which give us a dry mouth, prevent the anti-viral saliva from protecting our teeth, give us cavities which then get infected and we die since the infection goes directly to the brain. Or we are dosed with antibiotics which destroys our guts, which then must be surgically removed & we get a colostomy bag, generating a great deal of revenue.

AAS is forbidden because the government wants to protect us. It doesn't believe that functioning adults have the wisdom to know what is in their best interest. But the government knows. Just check their track record on tobacco.

 

[Triplexsg]

How can you judge someone?!

She's not becoming a man, she's becoming a freak

You have no right to judge anyone except yourself! Not even GOD judges! Your not a doctor to diagnose an individuals medical issues or debate whats right or wrong. The reason Chaz is doing what what he is doing to help others in his situation to be seen differently unlike your biased views!

 

[Triplexsg]

It would be neat

this kind of back ass medical shit boils my blood. It just like woman being able to take estrogen aka the pill but god forbid we take test!

They have tried using a form of test for men as a contraceptive...But...this is a man driven society and therefore it won't happen..Women's horomones are the ones that can justifibly be altered to prevent a pregnancy.... BLAH..... To me... Its a bunch of BS! I would love to see men have then horomones altered... I mean of course your sex drive will be through the roof, but hey.... at least us women won't be so moody nor will we gain weight!


here is a sight for you to see I am not kidding..


http://contraception.about.com/b/2008/04/15/male-contraceptive-injections-in-the-near-future-but-will-men-use-them.htm

 

[Trenman]

If a man wants to become a greater man, he's fucked. This society really does cater to women. Women can never admit that, but anyway. Just yesterday I had a discussion with a woman about all the vets who came back from Vietnam with burn marks or missing limbs and how they couldn't ever find a woman. And this woman had the audacity to say that MEN are the shallow ones. We have a society that tells women a man has to have such and such and measure up in all these different ways, and if he doesn't, it's really his fault. Yet we tell men that if you reject a 400lb woman, you are scum. No wonder so many men in the USA and other Westernized countries want to use testosterone, they're just trying to regain their manhood. Because males are so put down and women are portrayed to us as being smarter, more goddess like. No one cares about Cher's daughter. That wasn't even the point. The point is, if a woman can become a dickless man by using testosterone, why can't men use it for cosmetic reasons. Even if a man has a low testosterone, even just HRT is damn hard for a man to get.

 

[maldorf]

If a man wants to become a greater man, he's fucked. This society really does cater to women. Women can never admit that, but anyway. Just yesterday I had a discussion about all the vets who came back from Vietnam with burn marks or missing limbs and how they couldn't ever find a woman. And this woman had the audacity to say that MEN are the shallow ones. We have a society that tells women a man has to have such and such and measure up in all these different ways, and if he doesn't, it's really his fault. Yet we tell men that if you reject a 400lb woman, you are scum. No wonder so many men in the USA and other Westernized countries want to use testosterone, they're just trying to regain their manhood. Because males are so put down and women are portrayed to us as being smarter, more goddess like. No one cares about Cher's daughter. That wasn't even the point. The point is, if a woman can become a dickless man by using testosterone, why can't men use it for cosmetic reasons. Even if a man has a low testosterone, even just HRT is damn hard for a man to get.

I totally agree with what you had to say about how society makes it hard for men to even go on HRT. I still think its looked down on by some. Me personally, I am on HRT now at age 39.
The issue that I think that most of you are missing here is the fact that when women take male hormones to masculinize themselves, the levels of test they are taking is only great enough to put their blood levels into the normal range for men their age. they are not taking the crazy levels of test that male bodybuilders use, and they are not using all of the other wide array of steriods.
most would agree that a pretty standard dose for a young bodybuilder starting out AAS would be 500mg/wk test. as a comparison, the levels utilized in medicine is 100-150 mg/wk. Lower doses used to put you into a normal physiologic level are not dangerous, wheras the high doses are dangerous. It is about being medically dangerous. Even though I had a heart attack, most probably aggrevated by my AAS use, my endocrinologist and cardiologists all agreed to put me on HRT.

 

[maldorf]

You have no right to judge anyone except yourself! Not even GOD judges! Your not a doctor to diagnose an individuals medical issues or debate whats right or wrong. The reason Chaz is doing what what he is doing to help others in his situation to be seen differently unlike your biased views!

I totally agree with you. It is her life, and as long as she isnt jeapordizing her health she should be allowed to do this and not be looked down on. If this is what makes her happy, so be it.

 

[Trenman]

I have a friend who just had his prostate removed due to cancer. It gave him a low testosterone level and now the doc refuses to use HRT. Yes, I know, cancer. But it's his choice. Isn't deprivation of testosterone one of the definitions of castration? And I'm still not convinced they care about safely. Estrogen causes problems in women, as well as breast implants, but we all allow it. I don't think they're worried about our safety, I think this whole country, many of the men included, simply don't give a rats ass about you if you're male.

 

[maldorf]

With just a few mins of searchin I found this page that talks about testosterone therapy for transgender females wanting to be male. It talks about the doses, and says "An average injectable dose is about 200-250 mg every two weeks, though many trans men inject 100 mg every week or every 10 days, or other variations depending on their own bodies' needs and sensitivities. Again, the exact dosage required will vary from person to person, and health and well-being should be carefully monitored while determining an individual's ideal dose." So you can see this is similar to what men use in HRT, just to get you into the normal hormone range. Its not supraphysiological doses like bodybuilders use.
http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html

I suppose you could even reason that female bodybuilders using similar dosing schemes are taking less health risks than their male counterparts since the men use supraphysiological doses many times more powerful than the norm.

 

[Trenman]

When gear became illegal, guys weren't even using the doses they are now. So I know that's not it. Plus, a guy can gain lots of size off of less than 250mg/wk. I and also my friend both gained 50lb in less than a year by doing 250mg/wk or less. And 250mg/wk is still in the normal range. (Real normal range is 750-1200ng/dl) That's what was recored in the 1950s. The modern "normal" range is bullshit. 300-800, that's a lie. So I use a low dose of test to gain all that muscle. When docs prescribed this in the 80s, they also used low doses. And that's when it became illegal.It's not dose related, it's what it is.

 

[maldorf]

I have a friend who just had his prostate removed due to cancer. It gave him a low testosterone level and now the doc refuses to use HRT. Yes, I know, cancer. But it's his choice. Isn't deprivation of testosterone one of the definitions of castration? And I'm still not convinced they care about safely. Estrogen causes problems in women, as well as breast implants, but we all allow it. I don't think they're worried about our safety, I think this whole country, many of the men included, simply don't give a rats ass about you if you're male.

I do not know of any medical links between test and cancer. I hope that he goes out and gets some more medical opinions from endocrinologists. Like I said earlier, I had a heart attack and you there is lots of medical evidence out there linking AAS use to heart problems. If my doc prescribe me test, I dont see why your friend cant have some too to feel like a normal man. I felt like utter shit when I had that low test. I had to suffer for 6 months before my doc would prescribe my HRT. Now she is on boat though, and even increased my dose from 100 to 150mg/wk so I could feel better. Yeah, my endo is female and supports me 100% now!!!

 

[Trenman]

That actually doesn't surprise me. I keep hearing about these women doctors who are actually human. But with these male doctors, wtf?