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Choosing a contest prep coach

ROCKEDUP

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My friend is considering competing in another show. The last one turned out well, but his coach had a very "do this and shut up" approach. He would answer my friends questions, but usually with short or vague answers. The guy knew his business, and my friend showed up in great condition, but he doesn't feel like he learned very much, as all of his "why" questions were usually answered quite unsatisfactorily.

After the show, my friend decided to hire a new, off season coach, so to speak. My friend was getting great results from the new coach who had a somewhat unique approach. However, this coach had the same type of "do this and shutup" attitude as the previous one.

My friend doesn't want to hire someone else for the contest prep, especially since he loves his current coach, but he is concerned that this prep will go similarly to the last one; excellent results, but with little learned in the process.

What would you guys do?
 

BigJB

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well

your "friend" couldn't print the diet, and note when changes were made and the style of training he was doing and perhaps apply cognitive thought to said notes and changes?

is your friend incapable of adaptive thinking?
 

PHIL HERNON

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Well

My friend is considering competing in another show. The last one turned out well, but his coach had a very "do this and shut up" approach. He would answer my friends questions, but usually with short or vague answers. The guy knew his business, and my friend showed up in great condition, but he doesn't feel like he learned very much, as all of his "why" questions were usually answered quite unsatisfactorily.

After the show, my friend decided to hire a new, off season coach, so to speak. My friend was getting great results from the new coach who had a somewhat unique approach. However, this coach had the same type of "do this and shutup" attitude as the previous one.

My friend doesn't want to hire someone else for the contest prep, especially since he loves his current coach, but he is concerned that this prep will go similarly to the last one; excellent results, but with little learned in the process.

What would you guys do?
What ever he is doing.........learn it. I mean, some clients want to question why there is oxygen.........you hire these guys to train you, not educate you. I have clients ask me why so and so does this or that.............is that a question that is fair to ask? How in tarnations would I know why so and so does what they do? Listen to the trainer because he has experience......it works........
 

ROCKEDUP

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your "friend" couldn't print the diet, and note when changes were made and the style of training he was doing and perhaps apply cognitive thought to said notes and changes?

is your friend incapable of adaptive thinking?
Yes I think he is....but I don't think that is the question, or the problem. I'm thinking maybe there are 2 types of trainers and 2 types of trainees....2 of them work well together, 2 of them don't work quite as well together?

What ever he is doing.........learn it. I mean, some clients want to question why there is oxygen.........you hire these guys to train you, not educate you. I have clients ask me why so and so does this or that.............is that a question that is fair to ask? How in tarnations would I know why so and so does what they do? Listen to the trainer because he has experience......it works........
I agree Phil it is hard to argue with experience and almost impossible to argue with results BUT can you really say "train" and "educate" are not 2 sides of the same coin?

I know my buddy will be ok either way. I told him what I thought, which was stick with the current guy and see what happens. My first advice was to fire everyone then hire Phil:D problems solved (although Phil does talk to me in riddles sometimes);)
 

alpmaster

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So.... if I'm getting this right.... your friend hired a prep coach to get him in condition for a show..... he got into condition for said show...... and is unsatisfied with his experience?


If someone told me to eat 50g of carbs, train for an hour, and do 2 cardio sessions a day, and it got me shredded... I'd probably say to myself, "hey, 50g of carbs, training for an hour, and 2 cardio sessions got me shredded... I can do this on my own".


Which part am I missing? Was your friend high the whole prep that he can't remember what he did? He hired a coach to get into condition and it worked. If he wants to learn the intricacies of Exercise Science and/or Nutrition, it's called College.
 

Moen

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Well there are trainers/coaches out there who do just that, although the ones coming to mind right now come at about 10 times Phil's price. Also there is little to no science to anything we're doing since almost all variables of studies out there are immediately 'enhanced' by us. You can try to deduce some things out of studies related to this thing (which we constantly do) but you have to wonder how useful it all is vs plain real word results/experience.

Most of this stuff IS pretty simple and is contained in palumbus' thread, you just have to be willing to do it.
 

Skip

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Phil makes good points when it comes to being asked questions about what others do or why others do things BUT .... some clients want to know why it is they are doing something or the reasons behind it and, speaking for myself, I do "teach" along the way by taking the time to answer questions in depth and if they still don't understand I will continue to explain it to them. Why? Because I firmly believe that you shouldn't ever do something simply because someone told you to. I know, I know, trust your prep guy because of their experience but you shouldn't EVER blindly trust ANYONE no matter how much you pay them.

I know this might not make everyone happy in this thread but I tell my clients all the time that if I tell you to do something (or anyone else that they may work with) and I (or they) can't explain to you why you need to do it and what the outcome will be, you do NOT do it. That is why I have a cap as to how many clients I will work with at one time because I want to be sure that I have the time to explain everything they need or want explained.

I think there are huge differences in why some clients work with a prep guy. One can be trying to turn pro and could care less to learn the "whys" because their only focus is the end objective. Others DO want to learn and be able to work with someone for a certain amount of time and then walk away with the ability to make adjustments to their diets and training with confidence, on their own.

Let the flaming begin .... lol

Skip
 

Skip

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Well there are trainers/coaches out there who do just that, although the ones coming to mind right now come at about 10 times Phil's price.
This makes sense because the explanations and "education" SHOULD cost more. It seems logical to me that if a client is getting more attention and getting every bit of knowledge from that trainer, it would cost more, right?

Skip
 

b-boy

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i have been lucky with the prep guys I have chosen over the years. Justin Harris explained everything I ever asked to a T!, George Farah answered all my questions, sometimes in a short and sweet answer but when i would see him later at an ON booth he would be sure to explain everything in detail to me. and John Meadows, WOW!!!!! this guys goes waaaaaaaayyyyyyy over and beyond the call of duty, He LOVES to explain things and TEACH!.
 

PHIL HERNON

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Exactly

Well there are trainers/coaches out there who do just that, although the ones coming to mind right now come at about 10 times Phil's price. Also there is little to no science to anything we're doing since almost all variables of studies out there are immediately 'enhanced' by us. You can try to deduce some things out of studies related to this thing (which we constantly do) but you have to wonder how useful it all is vs plain real word results/experience.

Most of this stuff IS pretty simple and is contained in palumbus' thread, you just have to be willing to do it.
Exaclty...what is low volume? High volume? Is there a reference point as to where its now high volume? How many times a week is best to train a muscle?...Can anyone explain how creatine works? Whey concentrate as opposed to isolate? LBAs as oposed to beef? IF you can, teach it to me........these questions are a bit different than why grass fed beef over corn.........or why 1/4 squats for a specific muscle as opposed to 1/2 squats.....choose questions wisely I suppose.
 

witefall

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My friend is considering competing in another show. The last one turned out well, but his coach had a very "do this and shut up" approach. He would answer my friends questions, but usually with short or vague answers. The guy knew his business, and my friend showed up in great condition, but he doesn't feel like he learned very much, as all of his "why" questions were usually answered quite unsatisfactorily. After the show, my friend decided to hire a new, off season coach, so to speak. My friend was getting great results from the new coach who had a somewhat unique approach. However, this coach had the same type of "do this and shutup" attitude as the previous one.

My friend doesn't want to hire someone else for the contest prep, especially since he loves his current coach, but he is concerned that this prep will go similarly to the last one; excellent results, but with little learned in the process.

What would you guys do?
If I hired a trainer, followed the training and showed up in great condition for a show, then I think I would have learned what I needed. I would have learned what works for ME. I don't know that I would concern myself too much with too many of the whys.

Sometimes knowing the whys ends up screwing us up b/c we start to think we know enough to make adjustments but we really don't understand the big picture, so we just sabatoge ourselves. This is true in most areas in life.
 

Moen

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This makes sense because the explanations and "education" SHOULD cost more. It seems logical to me that if a client is getting more attention and getting every bit of knowledge from that trainer, it would cost more, right?

Skip
Ofcourse Skip, that's what I'm saying!
 

Johnny Smiles

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i get alot of guys pm's asking me to explain or answer questions there trainer didnt answer.
my normal response is "just wait and the answer will reveal itself thru your hard work"
and it always does. i think its wise to keep questions few and just do as you are told and the answers will be found in your results.
-JS
 

Skip

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lol

Agreed. You got me on this one.

Skip
Exaclty...what is low volume? High volume? Is there a reference point as to where its now high volume? How many times a week is best to train a muscle?...Can anyone explain how creatine works? Whey concentrate as opposed to isolate? LBAs as oposed to beef? IF you can, teach it to me........these questions are a bit different than why grass fed beef over corn.........or why 1/4 squats for a specific muscle as opposed to 1/2 squats.....choose questions wisely I suppose.
 

Skip

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i get alot of guys pm's asking me to explain or answer questions there trainer didnt answer.
my normal response is "just wait and the answer will reveal itself thru your hard work"
and it always does. i think its wise to keep questions few and just do as you are told and the answers will be found in your results.
-JS
Gwasshoppa listen to wise Jedi. :)

Skip
 

Skip

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BUT, we must remember, these new guys do not know if they need to micro manage these issues or not........its all new and fresh to them.........remember those days Skip? ahhahahha
With age, my memory fades so .... no, not really. I can 't remember what I ate for breakfast. :)

Skip
 

ROCKEDUP

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This makes sense because the explanations and "education" SHOULD cost more. It seems logical to me that if a client is getting more attention and getting every bit of knowledge from that trainer, it would cost more, right?

Skip
You know....that is a good point. If I'm paying a few hundred dollars for 16 weeks of coaching, I should not be expecting the same attention as if I'm paying 4 or 5 times that amount. Thank you, Skip.
 

SL1CED

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Well, each to their own really. I signed up for a few reasons

1. I want results.
2. I want to learn how to get such results.

For others, I can see competing as that's actually the majority. But there's no reason why I cannot learn how to get such results.

Paying for help is tough, but I don't feel it's too much to ask questions. I mean we're paying so you can guys can help us to our goals. Where's the harm in asking why?

Would you rather someone that is curious, dedicated and motivated OR rather someone that pays you, doesn't fulfill his side(i.e not follow the diet), then bitches about your "lack of x,y and z" to future clients?

Not calling anyone out, but I'm sure Phil's #1 pet peeve with some his clients are the one's that DO NOT follow his training. Where's the sense in that? You pay Phil for the following things, then don't FOLLOW it? Why'd you pay?

We got a great cast of bodybuilding people here; Shelby, MD, Phil, Alex, Skip. So far, I'm with alex and I've seen more results in these 3.5 months than I have on my own in 2 years. I'd love to soak up the knowledge from all these guys at some point. I've read about all intensively, and am very curious about a lot. So when I join them, I like to ask questions.
 

JonnyO

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My friend is considering competing in another show. The last one turned out well, but his coach had a very "do this and shut up" approach. He would answer my friends questions, but usually with short or vague answers. The guy knew his business, and my friend showed up in great condition, but he doesn't feel like he learned very much, as all of his "why" questions were usually answered quite unsatisfactorily.

After the show, my friend decided to hire a new, off season coach, so to speak. My friend was getting great results from the new coach who had a somewhat unique approach. However, this coach had the same type of "do this and shutup" attitude as the previous one.

My friend doesn't want to hire someone else for the contest prep, especially since he loves his current coach, but he is concerned that this prep will go similarly to the last one; excellent results, but with little learned in the process.

What would you guys do?
Most trainers are like this, and as BigJB stated adaptive thinking. He should have been able to look it all over and figure it all out and find the answers to his questions eventually.

I train a few guys for shows here and there and it is pretty annoying some of the questions guys ask me. And Im sure Ive annoyed a few of my trainers Ive used in the past, but didnt take me long to figure it all out on my own to stop bothering them.

If things are going well and your getting in shape dont ask questions, just do as the coach says and figure it out after. Its not hard.
 

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