Conflicting opinion.?

[shapeup]

It seems that many boards (I am a registered member of over 10. I use them all for research) carry conflicting opinions on the usage/stacking/pct and cycling of AAS for begginers and veterans alike.

On this board your stickies are even conflicting which is the reason for this thread.

Why do you have Big A and Dad both putting up stickies but doing so with very different conflicting information. ??This makes the research I am doing even more confusing.

I realize that the use on AAS and PCT therof is different and responds different with each individual, but even the books that I have bought, the boards that I have PAID to subscribe to are all differnt in opinion.

I just want some clarification from real users, not people who have read about it. And none of this "do as I say, not as I do" crap.
What did you do for your first cycle?
How old were YOU??
What did you notice in terms of changes/sides??
What type of experience did you have??

All questions that NO "experts" ever answer.

BIG A seems to be pretty honest and upfront, but his info also seems very different from other sources info.

I want to and will eventually use AAS ..because ...why the hell not, half this damn country drinks booze all day and sniffs coke/smokes weed, I like to build muscle, so why not do it.

I will do it as safely as possible though, but also effectively.

I have not been training long enough according to most people, but I have known several people who jumped right in and did it right with diet excercise and proper recover and pct and NEVER had sides....so why wait really..."genetic potential" come on now, nobody can truely reach their potential naturally, why not speed the process up. I see no reason why if I'm eating right and lifting right why I can't safely add muscle with minimal fat and not destroy my own body.

I am young, 21. I was an off and on lifter for several years but have over the last 4 months gotten very serious about results, which all bodybuilders know means diet.

I have dropped over 10% BF naturally using ECA and diet and excercise.
currently 190 @ around 13% (as per caliper tests)

I will NOT do AAS until I reach at least 7-8% on the calipers and I do NOT want to get over 12% when I do go on.

My goals are to get to 225@ 8% .

Any comments, answers would be great.

Test is best and I know this. Simple is best for beginners and this must be true as well to test out responses. I understand PCT pretty well, but the conflicting info on... when to start, how young, lifting experience, using several different compounds, and amounts to use, along with frequency seem to keep me wondering ...do any of these people REALLY KNOW???

Thanks for your time.

-Shape

 

[doug1]

your journey ends here my friend and there is no cost...
as for your question, the simple crappy answer is that everyone is different, hence different opinions, but that makes the board more fun and balanced...

 

[Enanthanator]

Ok...my first cycle was deca 400mg per week for maybe 10 weeks. What did I notice...not too much...sleeplessness. Slight increase in weight, I was a little more on edge. It may have been fake or test who knows. I was around 22. I think I weighed around 185 or 190. I didnt gain much because being honest I partied way too much, didnt eat enough, lived on protein shakes and did way too much cardio. I must have liked it because that was about 10 years ago and I am still doing it. I didnt do pct, didnt know about it. I wasnt ready but did it anyway.

As far as my advice of course keeping it simple. Keep in mind that your diet will play the most important role in how you respond, followed by your training patterns, then the aas will just intensify what you do. Like I said I didnt get much because I didnt do it right. I would say and most probably would think that this is too much but what advice I would offer would be:

test enanthate or cypionate for 10-12 weeks at 500mg. I would have nolva on hand in case of gyno and would only use it if gyno symptons showed. I would also have enough for pct along with clomid. Another option, would be running hcg twice per week during your cycle at 250ius each time.

If you are looking to grow before you start your cycle establish what your maintaince cals are. Once you establish that figure on adding an additional 250 cals per day (you might need 500) for when you are on cycle. I would also try to keep drinking to a minimum and get your rest. As far as training I prefer a 5 day split but thats entirely up to you. Whatever you feel comfortable with. When you do come off, keep your diet clean, drop your cals slightly and drop the volume of your lifting. Your body will not recover as fast with the aas plus your own levels will be down so we dont want to overtrain your body at this point.

Of course these are just guidelines and you can adjust them to your liking. I have been around the block a few times and would consider myself fairly knowledgeable on aas and training so I hope this helps you.

 

[shapeup]

Ok...my first cycle was deca 400mg per week for maybe 10 weeks. What did I notice...not too much...sleeplessness. Slight increase in weight, I was a little more on edge. It may have been fake or test who knows. I was around 22. I think I weighed around 185 or 190. I didnt gain much because being honest I partied way too much, didnt eat enough, lived on protein shakes and did way too much cardio. I must have liked it because that was about 10 years ago and I am still doing it. I didnt do pct, didnt know about it. I wasnt ready but did it anyway.

As far as my advice of course keeping it simple. Keep in mind that your diet will play the most important role in how you respond, followed by your training patterns, then the aas will just intensify what you do. Like I said I didnt get much because I didnt do it right. I would say and most probably would think that this is too much but what advice I would offer would be:

test enanthate or cypionate for 10-12 weeks at 500mg. I would have nolva on hand in case of gyno and would only use it if gyno symptons showed. I would also have enough for pct along with clomid. Another option, would be running hcg twice per week during your cycle at 250ius each time.

If you are looking to grow before you start your cycle establish what your maintaince cals are. Once you establish that figure on adding an additional 250 cals per day (you might need 500) for when you are on cycle. I would also try to keep drinking to a minimum and get your rest. As far as training I prefer a 5 day split but thats entirely up to you. Whatever you feel comfortable with. When you do come off, keep your diet clean, drop your cals slightly and drop the volume of your lifting. Your body will not recover as fast with the aas plus your own levels will be down so we dont want to overtrain your body at this point.

Of course these are just guidelines and you can adjust them to your liking. I have been around the block a few times and would consider myself fairly knowledgeable on aas and training so I hope this helps you.

. Tons.

Truth is I use a Body Bugg from APEX. Apex sucks, but this device is VERY handy. I get 92% accuracy of my calorie burn daily. (one of the reasons I dropped BF so fast without losing muscle).

I haven't bulked yet, but I Know this will help me know what I need to be at calorie wise. I can at least get within 8% of my exacts deficit or surplus of calories for the day. each day. Every day.

So when Bulking on Test enan @ 500mg (pehaphs run an AI?? also) with Nolva on hand what would I need to try to be at in terms of a surplus.

I was thinkng 1000 cal surplus w/ at least 300g protein 300g carbs and the rest healthy fats would be decent to garauntee a 2lb a week gain and not TOO much fat.

As far as training I am on a 5day split right now..5 on 1 off(completely off) Hitting every muscle at least once a week. I do re-train if I'm not sore, and if (like in my chest) it's hard for me to get that blast I usually pre-exhaust that muscle.

Right now I'm still cutting @ 750 cal deficit w/ECA, CEE, BCAA, and BA, EGCG's, 7-keto, super cissuxRX, and multi-vitamin. 2050 cals (this number varies depending on what I am projecting fot the day after my workouts)
with 45%protein 40% carbs and 15%fat. I actually cycle my calories (carbs, and proteins slightly) I will occasionaly eat 60%carb and occasianaly eat 20%carbs just to keep the body on edge I guess. IDK.

My Training is like so
HITT cardio M, W, F for 20 minutes early morning followed by an oats/protein shake and then the workout if T or TH.

1- Delts
2 - Bi's/Tri's/Abs
3 -Quads/hams/calvs/
4 -Lats/Traps
5- chest/abs
6-off
7-repeat

Somehow it works it self out. I always get a doy or sometimes 2 off though.

Anyways, I really appreciate the help, and If you guys are this helpful I might discontinue the use of other boards.

BTW things I've paid for.

(Anabolics 2006, Chemical Wizadry, Optimum anabolics, Layman's guide to Steroids, The anabolic Diet, Jay Cutler- A cut above, and a membership to "www.steroid-encyclopedia.com") I enjoyed and learned a TON from all of these spends, but Even all the other free forums I am on and I am yet to find a helpful person to guide me as to what they have actually seen. Everyone wants to tell me not to worry about it till I'm 24-25, get more lifting experience, ect. ect. I have found some helpful people who were educated though. In fact, Tom185 @ AnabolicMInds told me the exact same thing as you Enanthanator. From what I've read in all these information sites Test is always best, and I don't think I would do a cycle without it ever.

What do you think about jump starting the first one with D-Bol or one of it's prohormone counter parts like Halodrol-50 or Oral-Turnidrol...seeing as Enan/Cyp have longer esthers this would kcik me into "gear"..considering I take the necessary liver supports of course. ??

Thanks again, sorry so long.

-shape

 

[Malic777.com]

Test is best and I know this. Simple is best for beginners and this must be true as well to test out responses. I understand PCT pretty well, but the conflicting info on... when to start, how young, lifting experience, using several different compounds, and amounts to use, along with frequency seem to keep me wondering ...do any of these people REALLY KNOW???

Thanks for your time.

-Shape

the conflicting info you get is just info on what worked for whom...my advice to you is you do any normal PCT you wont go wrong much...you will get to know your body better after a few cycles...focus more on your nutrition and workouts...alex

 

[shapeup]

the conflicting info you get is just info on what worked for whom...my advice to you is you do any normal PCT you wont go wrong much...you will get to know your body better after a few cycles...focus more on your nutrition and workouts...alex

Thanks man, Diet and Training are my favorite.

 

[glock95]

The truth is that everyone is different in their genetic profile and thus will react differently to any protocol. A prtocol needs to be done systematiclly and cautiously, establishing what works for you Start with low dosages, of AAS that have low androgenic profiles. The most important thing is to train hard, all the Chems in the world will do nothing without adequate stimulus. Hope this helps,
Glock