Dr. Berry says statins don’t work!

[Blswan]

increase calcium build up in the arteries

I thought calcification was a response to black build up. By what mechanism do statins make this worse?

 

[headtrainer]

x + y = "we don't have a clue"

“Studies show that, in humans, increased coronary calcification has been observed starting after about 6 years of statin treatment. In our study, the aortic calcium mineral content assessed by µCT imaging showed a significant progression of calcification with aging in both the control and pravastatin-treated groups.Jan 21, 2021”

 

[headtrainer]

I thought calcification was a response to black build up. By what mechanism do statins make this worse?

Exactly! Patients prescribed the highest doses of statins, despite achieving low levels of cholesterol, had changes in plaque calcification that were nearly double the changes in patients who received no statins, and greater than changes in those who received low-intensity statin therapy, both of which were associated with plaque progression,” says the study’s principal investigator, Rishi Puri, MBBS, PhD.”

 

[headtrainer]

Exactly!

Patients prescribed the highest doses of statins, despite achieving low levels of cholesterol, had changes in plaque calcification that were nearly double the changes in patients who received no statins, and greater than changes in those who received low-intensity statin therapy, both of which were associated with plaque progression,” says the study’s principal investigator, Rishi Puri, MBBS, PhD.”

 

[headtrainer]

I thought calcification was a response to black build up. By what mechanism do statins make this worse?

Patients prescribed the highest doses of statins, despite achieving low levels of cholesterol, had changes in plaque calcification that were nearly double the changes in patients who received no statins, and greater than changes in those who received low-intensity statin therapy, both of which were associated with plaque progression,” says the study’s principal investigator, Rishi Puri, MBBS, PhD.”

 

[b-boy]

I only concern myself about remnant cholesterol. Don't give two fucks about any other cholesterol numbers.

Coronary calcium score of zero @ age 50. Heart ultrasound good (except for LVH), yearly EKG good

I wouldn't take a statin unless my doc said it could mean life or death (I trust my doc she is amazing) she wouldn't put me on one anyways.

 

[headtrainer]

I thought calcification was a response to black build up. By what mechanism do statins make this worse?

This is important observation tells me that statins actually cause hardening of the arteries (Atherosclerosis) while simultaneously
working to stabilize plaques by converting softer plaques, that are generally more prone to breaking off than harder calcified plaques that also damage the vessels—leading to further calcification. This no win situation seems to explain to some extent why statins are risky business.

 

[Flex500]

Here are some things we generally do know...

- Having an LDL at <70 seems to be an area most doctors will agree (even those opposed to statins) you will largely diminish almost any plaque accumulation. There are plenty of studies on this topic but even in casual discussion it will be almost unanimous that an LDL <70 will radically diminish any risk of plaque accumulation.

- Folks with higher risk of CV disease should feel some urgency with the above

- HDL and total cholesterol may not be as important as we once thought

Now there are many open ended questions such as does statin intervention to lower LDL help? It seems that it does. I know my LDL is <70 right now and I've gone full circle on statins over the years. The research is convincing to me that lower that LDL to <70 will incrementally decrease your chance of a CV event and for me, that requires a statin. Add to that, in smaller doses they are actually pretty side effect free for many and I just could justify not getting on them. Now when you get into aggressive statin therapy (which some do need to lower LDL that much) and side effects and risk/reward that's an entirely other bucket of considerations.

 

[headtrainer]

I thought calcification was a response to black build up. By what mechanism do statins make this worse?

This is important observation tells me that statins might cause hardening of the arteries through calcification.

 

[buck]

Did you know that statins increase calcium build up in the arteries? That can’t be good!

And raises the risk for diabetes. Due to some calcification in my arteries 2 cardiologists recommended i go on statins as that is the normal protocol for them. They want me to take a stain to lower my natural LDL level of 75 to get it down to 70. which the second cardiologist said would not matter for me but he was still required to recommend them. People need to look out for themselves and consider Dr.'s advice as well as other sources.

 

[headtrainer]

And raises the risk for diabetes. Due to some calcification in my arteries 2 cardiologists recommended i go on statins as that is the normal protocol for them. They want me to take a stain to lower my natural LDL level of 75 to get it down to 70. which the second cardiologist said would not matter for me but he was still required to recommend them. People need to look out for themselves and consider Dr.'s advice as well as other sources.

I agree! Especially since statins increases the risk of becoming a diabetic which is the number one cause of artery disease.

 

[Hammer4]

And raises the risk for diabetes. Due to some calcification in my arteries 2 cardiologists recommended i go on statins as that is the normal protocol for them. They want me to take a stain to lower my natural LDL level of 75 to get it down to 70. which the second cardiologist said would not matter for me but he was still required to recommend them. People need to look out for themselves and consider Dr.'s advice as well as other sources.

Required by whom?

 

[bg65]

Someone above mentioned statins being used for primary prevention... there does seem to be some divide growinflg there as more studies emerge. The evidence for benefit in secondary prevention is stronger than for primary prevention. Maybe we'll look back on this like the era when everyone over 50 used to be told to take a daily baby aspirin. Then theyre like oh shit we're causing bleeding events. But the indications for aspirin use in secondary prevention are well established beyond debate. Statins will reduce your risk of a heart attack, after you've had a first heart attack (same for strokes). How well do they prevent that first heart attack though? And yeah, the increased calcification is concerning but that is how they stabilize plaques, as was mentioned above.

 

[Delt123]

“Studies show that, in humans, increased coronary calcification has been observed starting after about 6 years of statin treatment. In our study, the aortic calcium mineral content assessed by µCT imaging showed a significant progression of calcification with aging in both the control and pravastatin-treated groups.Jan 21, 2021”

That doesnt really proves that statine is the driver for this process. They are stating that age is the main contributor (in this study).

 

[Dave Perez]

I had a quadruple bypass and new mitral valve on September 27...I am currently taking 80 mgs of lipitor (atorvastatin) as well as 6 other meds...my doctor just took me off pacerone...I am feeling pretty good but I can only do about 5 sets in the gym before I am exhausted and light headed...I am considering getting off all the meds and let nature take it's course...

 

[OuchThatHurts]

That doesnt really proves that statine is the driver for this process. They are stating that age is the main contributor (in this study).

Yes, I was caught by the "starting after about 6 years of treatment" portion. I pretty much scrolled past at that point.

 

[headtrainer]

I had a quadruple bypass and new mitral valve on September 27...I am currently taking 80 mgs of lipitor (atorvastatin) as well as 6 other meds...my doctor just took me off pacerone...I am feeling pretty good but I can only do about 5 sets in the gym before I am exhausted and light headed...I am considering getting off all the meds and let nature take it's course...

I’m not going to try and tell you what to do. But if it were me, I’d get off the statins and optimize my diet and training as you are already considering.

 

[bg65]

I had a quadruple bypass and new mitral valve on September 27...I am currently taking 80 mgs of lipitor (atorvastatin) as well as 6 other meds...my doctor just took me off pacerone...I am feeling pretty good but I can only do about 5 sets in the gym before I am exhausted and light headed...I am considering getting off all the meds and let nature take it's course...

If they tell you to take a blood thinner for that mitral valve don't ditch that though

 

[headtrainer]

That doesnt really proves that statine is the driver for this process. They are stating that age is the main contributor (in this study).

What the study was trying to say is that increasing duration of statin therapy is associated with high coronary artery calcium scores.​

 

[headtrainer]

If they tell you to take a blood thinner for that mitral valve don't ditch that though

I agree!