eca stack vs. clen+t3

[krnboitae]

which one do u like better and why?

 

[sammarbella]

ECA off-cycle. Effective, not catabolic without AAS but less effective than T3+ Clen combo.

T3+ Clen while on.Stronger but catabolic without AAS.I'll add ketotifen each third week ED at nightime while on Clen.If not don't bother to use clen for more than 2 weeks.

 

[ShaneH]

Maybe I am wrong but from what I understand T3 can really mess you up. I personally would rotate the clen and ECA or even do rotate with a Caffeine/yohimbine stack.

 

[sammarbella]

Maybe I am wrong but from what I understand T3 can really mess you up. I personally would rotate the clen and ECA or even do rotate with a Caffeine/yohimbine stack.

Black:

Really?

If you do stupid things like +200 mcgs T3 per day this is very possible to experiemnt the infamous "thyroid storm" but if you are not so dumb and take "normal" of 25-100 mcgs per day the worst side you will experiment will be extreme muscle loss if you don't take AAS with.

Take in count that there are EXTREME DUMBS on boards doing T3 at insane dosages for months...if T3 will hurt sure we will know it yet!

Red:

What is the goal of this rotation?

Clen stimule beta 2 receptors and Ephedrine stimule beta 2 receptors ALSO.

When you rotate to Ephedrine after 2 weeks on Clen your beta 2 receptors sensitivity will be DOWNGRADED.

What will you do ?

Triple "normal" Ephedrine" dose?

Rotation is a stupid and old BS.

I must go to take a coffee...later i'll think about Yohimbine.

 

[ShaneH]

My bad ...my first post should have said CYCLE the eca or clen or rotate with caffeine/yohimbine.

 

[krnboitae]

1.how do I cycle ECA?????????


2. is it ok to take eca while on aas cycle???

 

[krnboitae]

bump

 

[krnboitae]

anyone ever tried eca without the asprine????
(only ephedrine and caffeine)

will Ephedrine and Caffeine work?

 

[Tyrone]

anyone ever tried eca without the asprine????
(only ephedrine and caffeine)

will Ephedrine and Caffeine work?

PM me back

 

[The Wolf]

anyone ever tried eca without the asprine????
(only ephedrine and caffeine)

will Ephedrine and Caffeine work?

Eca means ephedrine caffeine and aspirin, so you mean has anybody tried ephedrine without aspirin? Yeah I have but I seem to sweat longer if I take the aspirin as well. Another great way to take ephedrine is with Hydroxycuts or animal cuts as they and other fat burners have the caffein and white willow bark(aspirin) in them plus a few other goodies.

 

[Tyrone]

Eca means ephedrine caffeine and aspirin, so you mean has anybody tried ephedrine without aspirin? Yeah I have but I seem to sweat longer if I take the aspirin as well. Another great way to take ephedrine is with Hydroxycuts or animal cuts as they and other fat burners have the caffein and white willow bark(aspirin) in them plus a few other goodies.

I already have those ingredients all in one dose...PM me.

Here: BRAND IS THERMAL-PRO
120 CAPS/BOTTLE

INGREDIENTS: 20MG EPHEDRA(MA HUANG EXTRACT/NOT HCL!), 200 MG CAFFEINE, 75MG WHITE WILLOW BARK, 50MG CAYENNE, 50 MG GINGER ROOT

 

[krnboitae]

which have less sides between the two?????????

eca or clen+t3??

 

[Tyrone]

which have less sides between the two?????????

eca or clen+t3??

ECA...There's also something to consider on dosage and durration but overall ECA.

 

[wakejump4me]

there was a study , and i'm still looking for it , that was saying that supplementing with ephedrine hcl did not stop its fat burning effects if taken over a long period of time . i think they were testing it for 6 month or so . i wish Homonunculus could chime in , because he was the one who posted it .
my point is that many are misunderstanding ephedrine hcl . they think , because the stimulation is gone , that the stuff stopped burning fat . i don't think so . sorry for getting a bit off topic here.

wake

 

[Tyrone]

there was a study , and i'm still looking for it , that was saying that supplementing with ephedrine hcl did not stop its fat burning effects if taken over a long period of time . i think they were testing it for 6 month or so . i wish Homonunculus could chime in , because he was the one who posted it .
my point is that many are misunderstanding ephedrine hcl . they think , because the stimulation is gone , that the stuff stopped burning fat . i don't think so . sorry for getting a bit off topic here.

wake

For what ever reason, I still enjoy the feeling of Ma Huang Extract(Ephedra) over ephedrine hcl.

 

[The Wolf]

I dunno bro, mau huang is good but the ephedrine I get is the real pharmacetical one used to treat asthma, 50mg a tab and only 50 cents for a box of 20. The shit is like speed, and when I take it, after a workout I cant stop talking thats how hyper I get,lol.

 

[wakejump4me]

there was a study , and i'm still looking for it , that was saying that supplementing with ephedrine hcl did not stop its fat burning effects if taken over a long period of time .

wake

My understanding is that ephedra cannot legally be included in a product promoted for weight loss. Ephedrine is an OTC asthma medication.

OTOH, its the stimulatory, but NOT the thermogenic effects of ephedrine that seem to dissipate over time:

1. Astrup A, Madsen J, Holst JJ, and Christensen NJ. The effect of chronic ephedrine treatment on substrate utilization, the sympathoadrenal activity, and energy expenditure during glucose-induced thermogenesis in man. Metabolism 35: 260-265, 1986.

Chronic ephedrine treatment of man has recently been found to enhance the thermogenic response to an acute dose of ephedrine. Conceivably, this sensitization to beta-adrenergic stimulation might also affect the facultative component of diet-induced thermogenesis. The glucose-induced thermogenesis (GIT) was studied in five healthy female subjects after 3 months of chronic peroral ephedrine treatment. Similar experiments 3 months after cessation of treatment served as controls. During chronic ephedrine treatment a sustained 10% elevation of the metabolic rate was found compared to that in the control study. Plasma epinephrine levels were increased 87% during treatment. These increases tended to be positively correlated (r = 0.54, P less than 0.07). GIT expressed as a percentage of the ingested energy load was unaltered during chronic ephedrine treatment compared with that in the control study (9.0% v 8.9%). The respiratory quotient (RQ) indicate that relatively more lipid was oxidized during chronic ephedrine treatment than in the control study. This change was observed in the fasting state as well as after glucose administration. Certain effects of ephedrine seems to be appropriate to a thermogenic drug for the treatment of obesity: A single dose of ephedrine stimulates thermogenesis, an effect that is enhanced during chronic treatment; Chronic treatment elevates the metabolic rate; and The substrate utilization is changed in favor of lipid oxidation

----------------

1. Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, and Christensen NJ. Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man. Am J ClinNutr 42: 83-94, 1985.

The thermogenic effect of a single oral dose of ephedrine (1 mg/kg body weight) was studied by indirect calorimetry in five women with 14% overweight before, during and 2 mo after 3 mo of chronic ephedrine treatment (20 mg, perorally, three times daily). Before treatment and 2 mo after its cessation a similar thermogenic response to ephedrine was observed. The total extra consumption of oxygen was 1.3 1 before and 1.2 1 after cessation of the chronic treatment. After 4 and 12 wk of treatment ephedrine elicited a more sustained response, the extra oxygen consumption in the 3 h following ephedrine intake being 7.0 and 6.9 1, respectively. The ratio of serum T3 to T4 increased significantly after 4 wk of treatment (15.6 +/- 1.3 vs 19.4 +/- 2.4; p less than 0.05), but decreased below the initial value after 12 wk treatment. The mean body weight was significantly reduced after 4 and 12 wk of treatment (2.5 and 5.5 kg, respectively). An improved capacity for beta-adrenergic induced thermogenesis may be useful in the treatment of obesity

----------------


1. Daly PA, Krieger DR, Dulloo AG, Young JB, and Landsberg L. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. IntJ ObesRelatMetabDisord 17 Suppl 1: S73-S78, 1993.

The safety and efficacy of a mixture of ephedrine (75-150mg), caffeine (150mg) and aspirin (330mg), in divided premeal doses, were investigated in 24 obese humans (mean BMI 37.0) in a randomized double blind placebo-controlled trial. Energy intake was not restricted. Overall weight loss over 8 weeks was 2.2kg for ECA vs. 0.7 kg for placebo (p < 0.05). 8 of 13 placebo subjects returned 5 months later and received ECA in an unblinded crossover. After 8 weeks, mean weight loss with ECA was 3.2 kg vs 1.3 kg for placebo (p = 0.036). 6 subjects continued on ECA for 7 to 26 months. After 5 months on ECA, average weight loss in 5 of these was 5.2 kg compared to 0.03 kg gained during 5 months between studies with no intervention (p = 0.03). The sixth subject lost 66 kg over 13 months by self-imposed caloric restriction. In all studies, no significant changes in heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, insulin, and cholesterol levels, and no differences in the frequency of side effects were found. ECA in these doses is thus well tolerated in otherwise healthy obese subjects, and supports modest, sustained weight loss even without prescribed caloric restriction, and may be more effective in conjunction with restriction of energy intake Dept of Medicine Harvard Medical School Boston
-----------------

thanks Homonunculus .

wake

 

[Tyrone]

Thanks for searching for the info. I can always appreiciate some dumbing down in them Anyways, I think the reason Ephedra continues to work is that it does not saturate the beta-2 receptors like clen does(Prob. the reason clen seems to lose effectiveness over time w/out a good break).

My understanding is that ephedra cannot legally be included in a product promoted for weight loss. Ephedrine is an OTC asthma medication.

OTOH, its the stimulatory, but NOT the thermogenic effects of ephedrine that seem to dissipate over time:

1. Astrup A, Madsen J, Holst JJ, and Christensen NJ. The effect of chronic ephedrine treatment on substrate utilization, the sympathoadrenal activity, and energy expenditure during glucose-induced thermogenesis in man. Metabolism 35: 260-265, 1986.

Chronic ephedrine treatment of man has recently been found to enhance the thermogenic response to an acute dose of ephedrine. Conceivably, this sensitization to beta-adrenergic stimulation might also affect the facultative component of diet-induced thermogenesis. The glucose-induced thermogenesis (GIT) was studied in five healthy female subjects after 3 months of chronic peroral ephedrine treatment. Similar experiments 3 months after cessation of treatment served as controls. During chronic ephedrine treatment a sustained 10% elevation of the metabolic rate was found compared to that in the control study. Plasma epinephrine levels were increased 87% during treatment. These increases tended to be positively correlated (r = 0.54, P less than 0.07). GIT expressed as a percentage of the ingested energy load was unaltered during chronic ephedrine treatment compared with that in the control study (9.0% v 8.9%). The respiratory quotient (RQ) indicate that relatively more lipid was oxidized during chronic ephedrine treatment than in the control study. This change was observed in the fasting state as well as after glucose administration. Certain effects of ephedrine seems to be appropriate to a thermogenic drug for the treatment of obesity: A single dose of ephedrine stimulates thermogenesis, an effect that is enhanced during chronic treatment; Chronic treatment elevates the metabolic rate; and The substrate utilization is changed in favor of lipid oxidation

----------------

1. Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, and Christensen NJ. Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man. Am J ClinNutr 42: 83-94, 1985.

The thermogenic effect of a single oral dose of ephedrine (1 mg/kg body weight) was studied by indirect calorimetry in five women with 14% overweight before, during and 2 mo after 3 mo of chronic ephedrine treatment (20 mg, perorally, three times daily). Before treatment and 2 mo after its cessation a similar thermogenic response to ephedrine was observed. The total extra consumption of oxygen was 1.3 1 before and 1.2 1 after cessation of the chronic treatment. After 4 and 12 wk of treatment ephedrine elicited a more sustained response, the extra oxygen consumption in the 3 h following ephedrine intake being 7.0 and 6.9 1, respectively. The ratio of serum T3 to T4 increased significantly after 4 wk of treatment (15.6 +/- 1.3 vs 19.4 +/- 2.4; p less than 0.05), but decreased below the initial value after 12 wk treatment. The mean body weight was significantly reduced after 4 and 12 wk of treatment (2.5 and 5.5 kg, respectively). An improved capacity for beta-adrenergic induced thermogenesis may be useful in the treatment of obesity

----------------


1. Daly PA, Krieger DR, Dulloo AG, Young JB, and Landsberg L. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. IntJ ObesRelatMetabDisord 17 Suppl 1: S73-S78, 1993.

The safety and efficacy of a mixture of ephedrine (75-150mg), caffeine (150mg) and aspirin (330mg), in divided premeal doses, were investigated in 24 obese humans (mean BMI 37.0) in a randomized double blind placebo-controlled trial. Energy intake was not restricted. Overall weight loss over 8 weeks was 2.2kg for ECA vs. 0.7 kg for placebo (p < 0.05). 8 of 13 placebo subjects returned 5 months later and received ECA in an unblinded crossover. After 8 weeks, mean weight loss with ECA was 3.2 kg vs 1.3 kg for placebo (p = 0.036). 6 subjects continued on ECA for 7 to 26 months. After 5 months on ECA, average weight loss in 5 of these was 5.2 kg compared to 0.03 kg gained during 5 months between studies with no intervention (p = 0.03). The sixth subject lost 66 kg over 13 months by self-imposed caloric restriction. In all studies, no significant changes in heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, insulin, and cholesterol levels, and no differences in the frequency of side effects were found. ECA in these doses is thus well tolerated in otherwise healthy obese subjects, and supports modest, sustained weight loss even without prescribed caloric restriction, and may be more effective in conjunction with restriction of energy intake Dept of Medicine Harvard Medical School Boston
-----------------

thanks Homonunculus .

wake

 

[wakejump4me]

yeah man , i only remembered that post and even if it does not , completely , match the topic , i thought it would be nice anyways o drop this info because ephedra /ephedrine is very misunderstood . cheers

wake

 

[sammarbella]

wakejump4me thanks to share this info.

Very intersting!

The data (last study) about no increase blood preasure and heart rate on 75-150 mgs of ephedrine is hard to believe...They must be dead to don't experiment change in these values with such high dosages!

Nevermind...

Tyrone:

I think Clenbuterol hits this receptors harder AND for more time due to his lonnnnnnger halflife.

Ephedrine is not so specific to the receptor and his halflife is more "normal".
The only nasty side while on ECA for weeks is the loss of sex drive.
Dick is almost dead.