EQ and Heart Problems?

[Chris288]

Hey guys.. i recently read some info about EQ/Boldenone related to premature death and heart problems. Is there any truth to this? I love EQ almost more than any other roid for me.. but I am more concerned about my heart. I quit taking Tren because of reading some enlarged heart problems with it. So anybody have any info on which steroids are related to heart problems, heart valve prob. or enlarged hearts causing heart attacks??? Is there any valid truth to EQ causing this? Thanks

 

[maldorf]

Hey guys.. i recently read some info about EQ/Boldenone related to premature death and heart problems. Is there any truth to this? I love EQ almost more than any other roid for me.. but I am more concerned about my heart. I quit taking Tren because of reading some enlarged heart problems with it. So anybody have any info on which steroids are related to heart problems, heart valve prob. or enlarged hearts causing heart attacks??? Is there any valid truth to EQ causing this? Thanks

Most any steroid can lead to the problems you mentioned, but I think EQ is singled out because it has a greater effect on raising erythorocyte count, RBC. If the blood becomes too thick the heart has to work harder to pump the blood, this leads to tachycardia and high blood pressure. Many users experience this.

 

[terryd5150]

I dunno....

I haven't seen any credible studies that would indicate EQ or Tren as being any worse in those regards than any other AAS, mostly because neither of those drugs are approved for human use so they couldn't be legally precribed for any purpose, study or not.


I can tell you this, weightlifting in general has been shown to increase heart size, although not to the point that it would cause a problem.

Bump Maldorf on the increase in RBCs from EQ being a potential long-term problem, though.

 

[sammarbella]

Hey guys.. i recently read some info about EQ/Boldenone related to premature death and heart problems. Is there any truth to this? I love EQ almost more than any other roid for me.. but I am more concerned about my heart. I quit taking Tren because of reading some enlarged heart problems with it. So anybody have any info on which steroids are related to heart problems, heart valve prob. or enlarged hearts causing heart attacks??? Is there any valid truth to EQ causing this? Thanks

To read is good...but don't believe all that you read at least untill you found some concrete proof on yourself.

The main "proofs" are easy to found:

- Watch your BP closely.(this is very important.High BP is the "silent killer"...)

- Do bloodworks to see values of liver, kidneys, heart, RBC...

- Do a PT test

If your RBC is too high donate some blood, is good for you and for others.

 

[Chris288]

Great info guys, because they are vet roids its hard to find a lot of articles on the health issues, of course after cycling off EQ wouldnt those issues that were mentioned go back to normal anyways? With exception of enlargement of the heart?

 

[sammarbella]

Normally yes.

High RBC will last for at least one month untill excessive red blood cells die.

 

[km2000]

have any of you tested your rbc's while on eq? if not lets not burn a witch here...

i have tested my rbc count on eq and it has a minimal effect on it, you'll be lucky if it raises a 1% from eq.....

your crit would have to be in the high 50's to even begin to experience sides... for a heart attack? it would have to be in the 60's probably not gonna happen( actually its not gonna happen) from eq.....

all aas will increase your hematocrit to some degree....

 

[terryd5150]

Two answers for ya...

have any of you tested your rbc's while on eq? if not lets not burn a witch here...


all aas will increase your hematocrit to some degree....

Yes, saw significant increase while on EQ. Started feeling like shit while on, so had a full panel done.


All AAS, yes. EQ moreso than others.

 

[AlphaMale]

It usually takes three+ months for RBC to return to normal ...and of note; personally when only running test at around 600mg and Masteron around 400mg my counts are never out of range.

Here's a post I did on EQ on another site that fits nicely here: EQ can/does cause high blood pressure, it also increases Red Blood Cell (RBC) count more that any aas other than Anadrol that I am aware of. This raise in RBC is a good thing as far as endurance goes to a certain point and length of time; while a high RBC helps carry oxygen and improves endurance and is why endurance athletes try to increase it though various techniques and drugs; it also causes thick blood. Thick blood is the result of the high RBC causing more release of thrombin resulting in the higher production of a substance called soluble fibrin monomer (SFM). SFM is a sticky protein that increases blood viscosity (thickness) and results in the deposit of fibrin on the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels. when fibrin coats the walls of the capillaries, nutrient and oxygen delivery to muscle, nerve, bone and organ tissue is serverely compromised. The combination of an AI and EQ could have some very negative effects or at least enhance the bad ones of thick blood and vascular damage. AI's can compromise the endothelial cells lining the capillaries. Heparans are your body's natural blood thinners, and capillaries and viens are the source of heparans. When heparans are compromised by the lack of estrogen then blood cannot be thinned as easily by your body, and again the raise in RBC causes fibrin to coat those cells so that the heparans cannot be released, reducing the body's ability to dissolve the fibrin and in the long run.....causing thicker blood.....causing high blood pressure.....causing fatigue.....causing vascular issues/damage.
While these conditions are not unique to EQ, they are much more pronounced.

 

[terryd5150]

Good post.

...This raise in RBC is a good thing as far as endurance goes to a certain point and length of time; while a high RBC helps carry oxygen and improves endurance and is why endurance athletes try to increase it though various techniques and drugs...

For me I saw a profound DECREASE in cardiovascular performance, which ,to me, was the first signal something was wrong.

 

[km2000]

Yes, saw significant increase while on EQ. Started feeling like shit while on, so had a full panel done.


All AAS, yes. EQ moreso than others.

what was your base line crit? if you saw a "significant increase" you have to knw what your base line is.......like i said befor, if you were taking 1000mg a week of eq you would be lucky to increase your crit by a 1 %, i have extensive knowledge on this subject, and a lot of real life experience also.....

let me get this straight, you saw a significant increase in your rbc's and you experienced a PROFOUND decrease in your cardiovascular performance? i am i missing something here?

you guys are funny!
your getting your panties in a buch over this.....

alpha male, where do you get your info that these side effects are much more pronounced on eq... do you have a clinical study? i have done a ton of research on this and have never come across anything but a bunch of posts by people that claim to be experts on this topic......

 

[Massive G]

For me I saw a profound DECREASE in cardiovascular performance, which ,to me, was the first signal something was wrong.

I also experienced negative side effects from a higher than normal RBC-excessive cramping, high BP, extreme debillitating pumps. Mine got over 55 in 2000. To me it has no benefit in bb'ing as most carry a high level anyway I found it to be a deterrent to my gains.

More RBC's =more iron which high iron levels aren't great for you over time and more than a few cardiologists think that's one of the main reasons men have a higher herat attack rate than women who naturally lose iron once a month.

Went to a heamtologist, got phlebotomized and now keep it down to ~50 with regular blood donations. I still get extremely pumped almost too much off a 50 crit now-and am not going to be on high dosed cycles again and haven't for some time.

We are all wired differently of course-but for me increased blood thickness, higher iron level and pressure are bad news over time.

 

[Massive G]

As far as EQ goes I never really used it.
Deca and Test and anadrol seemed to raise it substantially the higher the dose the higher the hemato got real quick. Some other irritating symptoms of high hematorit were itching in the shower and excessive flushing.

 

[AlphaMale]

km2000, I feel that you don't know as much as you think you do and are being defensive. My post was about the effects of long-term high RBC and the negative effects that it causes. Dispute that if you wish and good luck. I tied EQ into it as it has been shown in published papers and empirical data to increase RBC more than almost any steroid other than Anadrol. So if EQ raises RBC and by raising RBC it causes X then I feel very comfortable in backing my post 100%

if you were taking 1000mg a week of eq you would be lucky to increase your crit by a 1 %, i have extensive knowledge on this subject, and a lot of real life experience also.....

I would love for you to share you extensive knowledge here, seems that you are just making up a number as Test at half that dose would cause a much higher increase than 1%. Do you get blood work done? I do.

let me get this straight, you saw a significant increase in your rbc's and you experienced a PROFOUND decrease in your cardiovascular performance? i am i missing something here?

Yes, appearantly. My post explained this very well I thought.

alpha male, where do you get your info that these side effects are much more pronounced on eq... do you have a clinical study? i have done a ton of research on this and have never come across anything but a bunch of posts by people that claim to be experts on this topic

Again my post explain that IF EQ raised RBC more than other steroid then yes. I simply explained the potential damage from long-term high RBC. Take what you want from that. If EQ magically defies physics, or does not raise RBC then I am wrong and am sorry.

I can post many studies and articles on the effects of high RBC, Thick Blood, high blood pressure, thrombin, soluble fibrin monomer, blood viscosity, capillaries, nutrient and oxygen delivery, endothelial cells, Heparans, estrogen, fatigue, etc. OR YOU CAN GOOGLE THEM and save us all time and come back with specifics, rather than disputing this without any backing and just saying that you've done all this research and know so much...know what? What was wrong with my post? Please let me know, so I can learn. In advance I apalagize if I am getting too defensice myself, I just feel that disputes should come with facts and not fingers.

 

[Magnum]

have any of you tested your rbc's while on eq? if not lets not burn a witch here...

i have tested my rbc count on eq and it has a minimal effect on it, you'll be lucky if it raises a 1% from eq.....

your crit would have to be in the high 50's to even begin to experience sides... for a heart attack? it would have to be in the 60's probably not gonna happen( actually its not gonna happen) from eq.....

all aas will increase your hematocrit to some degree....

I tend to agree. I am not convinced that this is the case at least for everyone and if so then I would like to see actual numbers.

OK, I don't always like to post personal stuff so lets just say that this is hypothetical. I just came off a short 6 weeks cycle.

test 200mg wk
EQ 700 to 800 wk
anavar 60mg daily.

My BP actually went down slightly. I was currently running about 121/65 with a resting HR rate of 67 while on. My BP is normally about 125/73 on average. So take it for what it's worth. Maybe I am the exception.

 

[AlphaMale]

I tend to agree. I am not convinced that this is the case at least for everyone and if so then I would like to see actual numbers.

OK, I don't always like to post personal stuff so lets just say that this is hypothetical. I just came off a short 6 weeks cycle.

test 200mg wk
EQ 700 to 800 wk
anavar 60mg daily.

My BP actually went down slightly. I was currently running about 121/65 with a resting HR rate of 67 while on. My BP is normally about 125/73 on average. So take it for what it's worth. Maybe I am the exception.

Before you start thinking that you are the exception, I feel that you should realize that you ran a 6 week cycle, while my guess would be that if EQ raise RBC (can't imagine that it doesn't) that it would take more than 6 weeks to reach peak/stable blood levels with EQ and another 12 weeks to start to see/notice any damage in most people - again, only if EQ raises RBC more than other steroids. It's also not the during the cycle hardships that we might be worried about, but rather the POTENTIAL long-term vascular damage that is quite likely and prudent IF eq raises RBC to supraphysiological levels.

 

[Magnum]

Before you start thinking that you are the exception, I feel that you should realize that you ran a 6 week cycle, while my guess would be that if EQ raise RBC (can't imagine that it doesn't) that it would take more than 6 weeks to reach peak/stable blood levels with EQ and another 12 weeks to start to see/notice any damage in most people - again, only if EQ raises RBC more than other steroids. It's also not the during the cycle hardships that we might be worried about, but rather the POTENTIAL long-term vascular damage that is quite likely and prudent IF eq raises RBC to supraphysiological levels.

This is going to seem like I am being a smartass and I am not!! I realize that you are not saying for sure that EQ raises RBC count, but if it does then how much does one have to take? Isn't 800mg a week a pretty good dose? I would think that most would think so. Also, you admittedly are guessing about how long it takes to raise one's RBC. I would guess too that by 6 weeks I would at least have some kind of increase and possibly some increase in my BP but it actually went down.

By the way, peak blood levels of a drug depends on how long you run a drug and how much you are taking combined with the ester involved. So there is a lot more too it than just time on. In my case EQ at 400 mg every Mon and Thur. I reached peak blood levels at approx. day 37 at 2018mg, again this is a close approximation. So my peak blood levels were reached even if I would have stayed on indefinately. To get techincal they would have been slightly higher, but negligable as far as adding to my RBC.

 

[km2000]

km2000, I feel that you don't know as much as you think you do and are being defensive. My post was about the effects of long-term high RBC and the negative effects that it causes. Dispute that if you wish and good luck. I tied EQ into it as it has been shown in published papers and empirical data to increase RBC more than almost any steroid other than Anadrol. So if EQ raises RBC and by raising RBC it causes X then I feel very comfortable in backing my post 100%


I would love for you to share you extensive knowledge here, seems that you are just making up a number as Test at half that dose would cause a much higher increase than 1%. Do you get blood work done? I do.


Yes, appearantly. My post explained this very well I thought.


Again my post explain that IF EQ raised RBC more than other steroid then yes. I simply explained the potential damage from long-term high RBC. Take what you want from that. If EQ magically defies physics, or does not raise RBC then I am wrong and am sorry.

I can post many studies and articles on the effects of high RBC, Thick Blood, high blood pressure, thrombin, soluble fibrin monomer, blood viscosity, capillaries, nutrient and oxygen delivery, endothelial cells, Heparans, estrogen, fatigue, etc. OR YOU CAN GOOGLE THEM and save us all time and come back with specifics, rather than disputing this without any backing and just saying that you've done all this research and know so much...know what? What was wrong with my post? Please let me know, so I can learn. In advance I apalagize if I am getting too defensice myself, I just feel that disputes should come with facts and not fingers.

your original post was directly saying that eq would lead to an increased rbc that would lead to all the problems you stated... you said "While these conditions are not unique to EQ, they are much more pronounced" i would strongly disagree with that statment... being on eq is not going to get your crit to a level that you would even have to worry about any of those problems, if you have studies that directly link eq to a high level rbc that causes this long list of problems i would love to read it.....

i may be defensive but i do have extensive knowledge on this topic.....i have posted a ton of info on epo on this site, and am very experienced in the use and effects of it.. this is where my extensive knowledge come from...i have a few studies you may be interested in reading also, a high rbc for an extended peroid of time is not going to put you 6 feet under..

yes i get blood work done regularly buddy, i have a centrifuge and a bp machine in my home i test on weekly, how often do you get your crit checked? i doubt more than me

epo will raise your crit to peak levels in 3 weeks, you experience the effects after maybe 2 weeks of the first shot.. mag at a dose of 800mg would have noticed this after 6 weeks, and if the effects last so long like you stated here "It usually takes three+ months for RBC to return to normal" mag would have noticed something....

the point i have been trying to convey is that eq will not raise your crit to a level that you will experience any of the sides you posted. i feel you have blown the sides of eq way out of proportion.. how many people have died from a eq related heart attrtack? ..... 0...... this is my point....

i am not interested in the long term effects of thick blood and increased crit levels and all viscous blood studies you can post, we can all pull studies about this in minutes... i want one linking eq directly to the sides you originaly posted...this is the problem i have with your original post.......

 

[KillerStack]

I tied EQ into it as it has been shown in published papers and empirical data to increase RBC more than almost any steroid other than Anadrol.

Could you please post the studies you are talking about. We were discussing this in another thread and I'd love to see the studies that show EQ to be much more potent than other steroids in this regard. Also if you know of any studies showing anadrol being more potent than, say, d-bol or any other oral in this regard.

If you have the studies this issue can quickly be put to rest.

I posted an article by Llewellyn in the other thread and he hadn't found any evidence for EQ being a superior RBC booster either.

 

[ironone1]

I've read many posts that have said decreased cardio as being a side affect of EQ, as is Tren. EQ is overrated i.m.o. It is a mild AAS that only gives you a little bit of veins from my experience, and sends your appetite through the roof, which is obviously counterproductive to dieting. There are better alternatives, such as masteron. They all have negative sides, you just have to watch your bp and bloodwork.Now some of the sources won't even send it cause its harder to get through customs. Just my opinion, I wouldn't be heartbroken if you couldn't do EQ anymore for the minimal results that it yields.