Exploring new ways to add mass. Hgh? Slin? Breast milk?

[luki7788]

I have to disagree brother

not about competitors not taking it, i believe that to be true

But about losing muscle i can’t speak for anyone elses reactions to it, but I’ve never lost any. I take a standard dose of hormones as you know lol

i thought it could be useful but not necessary by any means. He’s already lean enough but stressing about being a chonker again. For him to lose even more fat, i think mentally he’d be in a better place to go full swing into gaining

of course i defer to your judgement here, you train people and I don’t

@skylarr123 - take my recommendation of DNP off the table

you haven't lost muscle because it's possible that despite dnp you can train hard - unfortunately most people can't do it because they feel like shit

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I have to disagree brother

not about competitors not taking it, i believe that to be true

But about losing muscle i can’t speak for anyone elses reactions to it, but I’ve never lost any. I take a standard dose of hormones as you know lol

i thought it could be useful but not necessary by any means. He’s already lean enough but stressing about being a chonker again. For him to lose even more fat, i think mentally he’d be in a better place to go full swing into gaining

of course i defer to your judgement here, you train people and I don’t

@skylarr123 - take my recommendation of DNP off the table

You hit the nail on the head indirectly with the mental aspect comment for me I find I get very OCD over stuff being or getting fat primarily one of them. Cliche as it is I suppose I must trust the process. I’ve never actually attempted a bodybuilding off-season before so maybe my skewed perception of getting fat whenever I push food will be altered for the better.

DNP is somewhat popular with some well respected UK coaches for 4 week mini cut/re-sensitisation/tidy ups to just try and pull as much bodyfat off and re-sensitise insulin etc now don’t quote me on the effectiveness of this I’ve no idea if it works just that it’s practice for some

 

[Deleted member 226465]

You answered your own question in the last paragraph. Many guys neglect abs. I personally hit them every other day. You can never have too tight of a midsection in bodybuilding.

Is that what you think it is? I’ve started training them twice a week now. The fact I’ve seen people in genuine show condition with no real abs made me think it was a development or genetic thing as opposed to bodyfat and the fact I’ve seen powerlifters who are upwards of 20% fat with full abs albeit blocky

 

[SouthernMuscle]

you haven't lost muscle because it's possible that despite dnp you can train hard - unfortunately most people can't do it because they feel like shit

Lol, idk

i’d definitely rather him listen to you, the only person i know how to train is myself

 

[Doitagain]

You hit the nail on the head indirectly with the mental aspect comment for me I find I get very OCD over stuff being or getting fat primarily one of them.

Then try at all costs to keep water retention always in check when gaining. Your mind can play bad tricks and excessive subQ water can make your schedule go belly-up because you start panicking.

 

[bbxtreme]

Is that what you think it is? I’ve started training them twice a week now. The fact I’ve seen people in genuine show condition with no real abs made me think it was a development or genetic thing as opposed to bodyfat and the fact I’ve seen powerlifters who are upwards of 20% fat with full abs albeit blocky

Genetics can play a role, but I personally believe you have to work your abs. Over the years I’ve developed very deep abs by training them every other day- def was not always the case with me.

They play a stabilization role for sure, but you can and should absolutely work on the development of them.

For me I do 15-25 rep range though and focus on the contraction. “How” you train them IMO is important as well. You want a defined midsection- not a thick one in bodybuilding so isn’t about how much weight you can crunch. Just my opinion and experience.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

You hit the nail on the head indirectly with the mental aspect comment for me I find I get very OCD over stuff being or getting fat primarily one of them. Cliche as it is I suppose I must trust the process. I’ve never actually attempted a bodybuilding off-season before so maybe my skewed perception of getting fat whenever I push food will be altered for the better.

DNP is somewhat popular with some well respected UK coaches for 4 week mini cut/re-sensitisation/tidy ups to just try and pull as much bodyfat off and re-sensitise insulin etc now don’t quote me on the effectiveness of this I’ve no idea if it works just that it’s practice for some

Well GH can be a sort of safety net that allows you to bulk a little more aggressively (within reason) without gaining massive amounts of fat

i will say this though, when i’m using insulin and bulking, the look is more watery and can be confused with gaining fat tissue

once you nail down your personal gaining process, you’ll have the fear of getting fat disappear. Yesterday was my rest day and those are the days I eat whatever the hell i want. Huuuge amount of lasagna for dinner, tortilla chips w a taco meat + cheese dip for a snack after that, ice cream for second snack. Woke up lighter

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Well GH can be a sort of safety net that allows you to bulk a little more aggressively (within reason) without gaining massive amounts of fat

i will say this though, when i’m using insulin and bulking, the look is more watery and can be confused with gaining fat tissue

once you nail down your personal gaining process, you’ll have the fear of getting fat disappear. Yesterday was my rest day and those are the days I eat whatever the hell i want. Huuuge amount of lasagna for dinner, tortilla chips w a taco meat + cheese dip for a snack after that, ice cream for second snack. Woke up lighter

Very much what I was thinking to some things I’ve put forward that may be of use for me to stay leaner whilst pushing food

Gh
Lowish dose T3
Periods of lower dose tren
Carb cycling
Cardio most days
8-10k steps a day
Training 6x per week IF I can progress and recover

Insulin I think the potential benefits of the size it could help add in conjunction with GH and AAS when the time is right make it a worthwhile tool just have to keep in mind the water weight it may bring about

That sounds amazing and also mentally horrific for me but no I definitely think you’re right it is a mental game. It’s funny my coach is the total opposite of me a real hard gainer who can easily drop 1-2lbs per day if he just drops some food but struggles to add size. I’m hoping if I can avoid getting fat my genetics will allow me to get freaky big

 

[Elvia1023]

How much bigger do you want to be?
Why 10iu of gh?
Why add slin, are you pounding that much food that you need it?
Do you believe everything random people on this board that you've never seen a pic of say?
Would Jay Cutler come here or Nick Walker and ask a bunch of random guys (most they have never even seen what the guy looks like) question on how to get big?

FUCK DUDE YOU SHOULD BE THE ONE ON THIS BOARD GIVING ADVICE! YOU SHOULD HAVE A Q&A THREAD GOING, YOUR WAAAYYYY MORE ADVANCED THAN 98% OF THIS ACTIVE BOARD.

Just wanted to comment on this but in a general sense and not about anyone in particular. Firstly I completely agree and it seems almost strange that someone as advanced as the OP would be asking these questions and you have people answering that are nowhere near his level. You don't really get that in many industries but you do in bodybuilding. Fact is if people were to do what the OP has done they would get much better results. At the same time just because someone is small and not well developed it doesn't mean they can't offer great advice. I think this shows just how simple bodybuilding can be and 90% of it is doing the basics consistently over time.

You have guys on here who overthink and concentrate on that other 10% of the equation without doing the basics. They spend hours researching peptides and dose them at specific times. They pulse hgh with ghrp. They could tell you what supplements to take for various issues. They design cycles based on hormone type and conversion. They spend hours designing training templates. They do all those minor things and get lost in the detail whilst skipping meals constantly and training like a pussy. Bodybuilding is so simple and whilst we can optimize every area at the end of the day if you eat meat and rice x times per day never skipping a meal and you train hard 4-5 days per week and take a basic cycle progressing in all areas over time you will end up looking better than most of this forum.

Regardless the OP has never even used GH until recently and he has kept it very simple until now so I am sure he can learn a thing or 2 even from people who are nowhere as developed as him. A lot of the best bodybuilders of all time had basic knowledge at best. Half of them can't even pronounce drug names and couldn't tell you what nolvadex does scientifically but they do all the important things and that's what got them where they are/were. It still doesn't mean they can learn from a guy who is an expert in hormones but can't diet to save his life.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Just wanted to comment on this but in a general sense and not about anyone in particular. Firstly I completely agree and it seems almost strange that someone as advanced as the OP would be asking these questions and you have people answering that are nowhere near his level. You don't really get that in many industries but you do in bodybuilding. Fact is if people were to do what the OP has done they would get much better results. At the same time just because someone is small and not well developed it doesn't mean they can't offer great advice. I think this shows just how simple bodybuilding can be and 90% of it is doing the basics consistently over time.

You have guys on here who overthink and concentrate on that other 10% of the equation without doing the basics. They spend hours researching peptides and dose them at specific times. They pulse hgh with ghrp. They could tell you what supplements to take for various issues. They design cycles based on hormone type and conversion. They spend hours designing training templates. They do all those minor things and get lost in the detail whilst skipping meals constantly and training like a pussy. Bodybuilding is so simple and whilst we can optimize every area at the end of the day if you eat meat and rice x times per day never skipping a meal and you train hard 4-5 days per week and take a basic cycle progressing in all areas over time you will end up looking better than most of this forum.

Regardless the OP has never even used GH until recently and he has kept it very simple until now so I am sure he can learn a thing or 2 even from people who are nowhere as developed as him. A lot of the best bodybuilders of all time had basic knowledge at best. Half of them can't even pronounce drug names and couldn't tell you what nolvadex does scientifically but they do all the important things and that's what got them where they are/were. It still doesn't mean they can learn from a guy who is an expert in hormones but can't diet to save his life.

Very well said and I appreciate the kind words!

And you’re correct pretty much all I’ve done up until now is the basics (trained hard, eat a relatively normal diet either way in excess or deficit and took AAS off and on) and even those were often done incorrectly (minus training) but consistency over the years is the true key ideally doing things correctly

 

[Elvia1023]

I assure everyone that 90% of competitors do not touch DNP

dnp is popular with gymbros but not with competitors precisely because you feel like shit and can't train hard = you lose muscle because you don't have enough training stimulus = muscle loss even if you take 2g trenbolone and 30iu gh

I love you but I completely disagree with this. Although I understand why you state it. In many competitive circles DNP is still almost demonized so it's not used. Dave Palumbo talks like it could kill you if you take a few caps. Although a lot of coaches/competitors use it fairly frequently.

It's definitely popular with gymbros though. SouthernMuscle recommended 200mg and that is a very different dose to 400mg+ for example. I am fairly sensitive to DNP but I barely feel 200mg per day and I can still train like an animal on 200mg per day. Most people are fine with that amount. Plus he recommended it just for a few weeks so it's not like someone would be using it for long periods (highly counter-productive). Muscle could be maintained on the person's standard cruise dose nevermind blast doses. DNP is fairly muscle sparing and on 200mg as long as protein is kept high no muscle is going to be lost over a few weeks. Now if someone takes a high dose and barely eats that is very different.

I am not pushing DNP on the OP because he doesn't need it but I do understand why SM recommended it because it would be a perfect time to use it combined with a high protein low carb/fat diet for 2 weeks to get that last bit of fat off before gradually increasing everything and growing. In fact he could even just keep things similar (lower carbs but nothing excessive) and add it in and that would be enough but as it's usage would be kept fairly short a PSMF diet does make sense. It would really prime his body for future growth. Although he doesn't even need the DNP and could just do the diet with some anabolics in place and that would have a similar (just less pronounced) effect.

Just wanted to comment because those posts stood out to me. In regards to the thread and Skylaar as others have stated just keep doing what you are doing. You are obviously a hard worker and committed and you have great genetics so the sky is the limit. You're advanced but the world of all these drugs etc is very new to you and it's easy to get carried away. Although as you know if you want to go far you are probably going to have it take a bunch of different things. You just started HGH so just keep to the plan. Insulin well that's a whole other subject but just start low and listen to your coach and keep it simple. It's good to want to learn all the details but just listen to your coach. It's a long distance run and not a sprint. Try not to overcomplicate the journey because you are already on the right path it just takes time.

 

[b-boy]

Just wanted to comment on this but in a general sense and not about anyone in particular. Firstly I completely agree and it seems almost strange that someone as advanced as the OP would be asking these questions and you have people answering that are nowhere near his level. You don't really get that in many industries but you do in bodybuilding. Fact is if people were to do what the OP has done they would get much better results. At the same time just because someone is small and not well developed it doesn't mean they can't offer great advice. I think this shows just how simple bodybuilding can be and 90% of it is doing the basics consistently over time.

You have guys on here who overthink and concentrate on that other 10% of the equation without doing the basics. They spend hours researching peptides and dose them at specific times. They pulse hgh with ghrp. They could tell you what supplements to take for various issues. They design cycles based on hormone type and conversion. They spend hours designing training templates. They do all those minor things and get lost in the detail whilst skipping meals constantly and training like a pussy. Bodybuilding is so simple and whilst we can optimize every area at the end of the day if you eat meat and rice x times per day never skipping a meal and you train hard 4-5 days per week and take a basic cycle progressing in all areas over time you will end up looking better than most of this forum.

Regardless the OP has never even used GH until recently and he has kept it very simple until now so I am sure he can learn a thing or 2 even from people who are nowhere as developed as him. A lot of the best bodybuilders of all time had basic knowledge at best. Half of them can't even pronounce drug names and couldn't tell you what nolvadex does scientifically but they do all the important things and that's what got them where they are/were. It still doesn't mean they can learn from a guy who is an expert in hormones but can't diet to save his life.

Well let's just say this, look back through time on this board at the really knowledgeable people examples...
John meadows
Ken skip hill
Matt Porter
Zilla
Magnum
Shelby Starnes
Just a few examples ^^
Show me one that didn't have a pretty fucking good ass physique. The true geeks of this sport are immersed in it, they execute the stuff they talk about, they got their knowledge from trial and error. There is hardly anyone that post now a days that could beat any of those guys in a physique contest and NONE of those guys are genetic elite guys (hell no)

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I love you but I completely disagree with this. Although I understand why you state it. In many competitive circles DNP is still almost demonized so it's not used. Dave Palumbo talks like it could kill you if you take a few caps. Although a lot of coaches/competitors use it fairly frequently.

It's definitely popular with gymbros though. SouthernMuscle recommended 200mg and that is a very different dose to 400mg+ for example. I am fairly sensitive to DNP but I barely feel 200mg per day and I can still train like an animal on 200mg per day. Most people are fine with that amount. Plus he recommended it just for a few weeks so it's not like someone would be using it for long periods (highly counter-productive). Muscle could be maintained on the person's standard cruise dose nevermind blast doses. DNP is fairly muscle sparing and on 200mg as long as protein is kept high no muscle is going to be lost over a few weeks. Now if someone takes a high dose and barely eats that is very different.

I am not pushing DNP on the OP because he doesn't need it but I do understand why SM recommended it because it would be a perfect time to use it combined with a high protein low carb/fat diet for 2 weeks to get that last bit of fat off before gradually increasing everything and growing. In fact he could even just keep things similar (lower carbs but nothing excessive) and add it in and that would be enough but as it's usage would be kept fairly short a PSMF diet does make sense. It would really prime his body for future growth. Although he doesn't even need the DNP and could just do the diet with some anabolics in place and that would have a similar (just less pronounced) effect.

Just wanted to comment because those posts stood out to me. In regards to the thread and Skylaar as others have stated just keep doing what you are doing. You are obviously a hard worker and committed and you have great genetics so the sky is the limit. You're advanced but the world of all these drugs etc is very new to you and it's easy to get carried away. Although as you know if you want to go far you are probably going to have it take a bunch of different things. You just started HGH so just keep to the plan. Insulin well that's a whole other subject but just start low and listen to your coach and keep it simple. It's good to want to learn all the details but just listen to your coach. It's a long distance run and not a sprint. Try not to overcomplicate the journey because you are already on the right path it just takes time.

Extremely interesting post mate I appreciate the contribution I genuinely have no knowledge with DNP but some of the stuff you’ve said and I’ve heard others say make it sound like it definitely could have it’s uses at certain periods of times and may well be worth looking into for future use.

In regards to your last bit I appreciate that and it’s amazing to hear people think I have great genetics I remember very early on someone I really looked upto as a teenager getting into training told me I had bad genetics and could never build a pro physique and I guess maybe even un subconsciously it stuck with me until now! And you’re right it’s all quite new to me in terms of actually picking compounds and what not to grow its very easy to get fixated on the 10% when it’s the 90% that really counts. Think im just concerned now at 30 years old and just properly starting out I may have a lot of catching up to do in a short space of time to get anywhere near pro level size if my genetics allow

 

[Elvia1023]

Well let's just say this, look back through time on this board at the really knowledgeable people examples...
John meadows
Ken skip hill
Matt Porter
Zilla
Magnum
Shelby Starnes
Just a few examples ^^
Show me one that didn't have a pretty fucking good ass physique. The true geeks of this sport are immersed in it, they execute the stuff they talk about, they got their knowledge from trial and error. There is hardly anyone that post now a days that could beat any of those guys in a physique contest and NONE of those guys are genetic elite guys (hell no)

Of course. They are examples of knowledgeable people who had great physiques. There are lot's of guys who have posted on here who are a wealth of information who didn't look anywhere near as good as the OP. A lot of them never even posted a pic but I would guess 90% of them probably looked athletic at best. There are a few guys now who post on here who are experts is various fields and I have never seen them but I would bet my life they look nowhere as good as Skylaar.

I just mean I know plenty of people who have great knowledge on body mechanics and training and they aren't super jacked. I know plenty of experts on nutrition and they aren't huge and shredded. I know people who are extremely knowledgeable on hormones and they don't even train.

So yes it can be laughable at times when you have a guy who is 170 pounds and 14% bodyfat telling someone jacked how to dose his drugs or how to train but that doesn't mean they can't offer some good advice. The greatest bodybuilder to ever live sounds like an idiot when he is talking about nutrition and supplementation so looks doesn't always equate to knowledge and visa versa. Plus trust me I am usually on your side of the fence on this topic and it's why I ask people to post pics quite a lot because a pic and tell a thousand words but when it comes to actual knowledge it means very little.

 

[b-boy]

you haven't lost muscle because it's possible that despite dnp you can train hard - unfortunately most people can't do it because they feel like shit

Anyone that uses it wisely (say 200mg eod) can train just fine. Guys take way to much dnp and that's why they are lethargic and miserable.
Run it lower and a little longer and you feel just fine and still reap great fat loss benefits.

 

[b-boy]

Of course. They are examples of knowledgeable people who had great physiques. There are lot's of guys who have posted on here who are a wealth of information who didn't look anywhere near as good as the OP. A lot of them never even posted a pic but I would guess 90% of them probably looked athletic at best. There are a few guys now who post on here who are experts is various fields and I have never seen them but I would bet my life they look nowhere as good as Skylaar.

I just mean I know plenty of people who have great knowledge on body mechanics and training and they aren't super jacked. I know plenty of experts on nutrition and they aren't huge and shredded. I know people who are extremely knowledgeable on hormones and they don't even train.

So yes it can be laughable at times when you have a guy who is 170 pounds and 14% bodyfat telling someone jacked how to dose his drugs or how to train but that doesn't mean they can't offer some good advice. The greatest bodybuilder to ever live sounds like an idiot when he is talking about nutrition and supplementation so looks doesn't always equate to knowledge and visa versa. Plus trust me I am usually on your side of the fence on this topic and it's why I ask people to post pics quite a lot because a pic and tell a thousand words but when it comes to actual knowledge it means very little.

Rich self made people don't take financial advice from broke people

^^ I'm messing with you..LOL

 

[Elvia1023]

Extremely interesting post mate I appreciate the contribution I genuinely have no knowledge with DNP but some of the stuff you’ve said and I’ve heard others say make it sound like it definitely could have it’s uses at certain periods of times and may well be worth looking into for future use.

In regards to your last bit I appreciate that and it’s amazing to hear people think I have great genetics I remember very early on someone I really looked upto as a teenager getting into training told me I had bad genetics and could never build a pro physique and I guess maybe even un subconsciously it stuck with me until now! And you’re right it’s all quite new to me in terms of actually picking compounds and what not to grow its very easy to get fixated on the 10% when it’s the 90% that really counts. Think im just concerned now at 30 years old and just properly starting out I may have a lot of catching up to do in a short space of time to get anywhere near pro level size if my genetics allow

Certain topics were mentioned that stood out so I wanted to comment but I don't want to turn this thread into a DNP thread. It's very useful but by no means essential. It's just the notion that you can't train hard on 200mg per day is way off. 400mg or 600mg then sure it could be a major issue. SM was right though. In fact if you want to try DNP just let me know and I will send you some. As I posted it could finish off your diet very well but I don't want to step on the toes of your coach and perhaps he doesn't like it.

 

[Elvia1023]

Rich self made people don't take financial advice from broke people

^^ I'm messing with you..LOL

No I completely agree

Someone who has always been broke giving advice about being rich is funny. In the past even if I thought someone was knowledgeable I would never want to be trained by a guy who hadn't been there or done it himself. Even if the knowledge was there is was more so out of principle. In bodybuilding you only relate more to someone who has been in the same position. I also think unless you have been there (and taken x drug) you truly don't understand it.

 

[Elvia1023]

Why do I always write vice-versa as visa-versa

 

[luki7788]

Anyone that uses it wisely (say 200mg eod) can train just fine. Guys take way to much dnp and that's why they are lethargic and miserable.
Run it lower and a little longer and you feel just fine and still reap great fat loss benefits.

200mg e2d may not really be a dose that will give noticeable side effects - it could be used during the offseason minicut or at the beginning of the diet to burn most of the fat as soon as possible and then slowly continue the preparations