FERTILITY RECOVERY !SOS!

[provimed50]

5000 IUs 3x/week , thats overstimulating pure!

 

[muscle96ss]

Thats way too much HCG and unecessary Clomid, I'm on TRT, Clomid brings nothing than side effects!

Whether or not you achieve fertility obviously is something that is going to be life-changing and something that means a lot to you. At some point before you give up, please consider trying clomid. I know you don't believe it will work, but you truly have nothing to lose.

 

[Sides]

I ran 3 months now:

200 TEST C WEEK
500 HCG EOD
75 HMG EOD
50 PROVIRON ED
0.5 ARI WEEK

NOW(Since a week):
100 TEST C WEEK
500 HCG EOD
75 HMG ED
50 PROVIRON ED
0.5 ARI WEEK

Low FSH (it doesn't rise even with HMG) , low SHBG (16.4) , low sperm count, very high E2 (107!!)

The whole protocol isn't working, endo docs have no clue, no idea whats going wrong, our dream of having a child is already shattering.

I will do the protocol till end of february, if I've the same values in 3 weeks again I stop and start a geavy blast , 2022 I go back to stage.

I know 3 months is not long but NOTHING happens and values are worse than before!!

I hope @Sides and @bad rad can help me through DM, I'm lost!

Be patient. You have to give the process time to work, and stop changing your protocol! You have changed your protocol countless times since we have been talking about this.

As others have said, you have only been trying to restart your fertility for 3 months now. That's only one sperm cycle, and not enough time to get the testicles working again. Before that you were on 900mg Test and 600mg Deca per week, and you've been on steroids and shut down for years. It's going to take time to wake your body up from being shut down for so long.

A sperm cycle is 2.5 months in the body. It takes that long for the sperm to mature. Like I have told you, what you were doing in the beginning of November only shows up in your sperm count halfway through January. Right now, your semen analysis is only showing what you were doing in end of November/early December. What you are doing right now will only show up in your sperm count halfway through May.

I know it's hard, but you have to be patient, and give your body time to wake up and recover from your use and abuse of steroids for years.

Believe me, I'm not judging you, because I've been on steroids for almost 29 years myself, and I never took HCG or anything else to maintain fertility. So it took time for my body to wake up and recover and start producing sperm again.

At the beginning, I had a zero sperm count. For the first seven months, I was on Test + HCG, and seven months of that only got me to 7 million/ml. Then I added in HMG, and within 4 months I was at 31 million/ml, and my wife was pregnant. But it took eleven months to get there.

You will recover quicker than I did, because you are using HMG from the beginning. But you still have to give the process time to work. There's no way around that. Don't quit now, or everything you did so far has been a waste of time and money. Have faith in the process.

Be patient, be consistent, keep to your protocol, keep injecting HCG and HMG, and you will see a big improvement after a couple of sperm cycles. But you have to stick to the program to get there, and you have to give it time to work.

If I could show you a picture of my baby daughter smiling at me, or her pulling on my pants leg when she wants to go play with me, you will realize that all the effort is worth it.

It worked for me; it will work for you too. Have faith and pray to God. I will be praying to God for you.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I ran 3 months now:

200 TEST C WEEK
500 HCG EOD
75 HMG EOD
50 PROVIRON ED
0.5 ARI WEEK

NOW(Since a week):
100 TEST C WEEK
500 HCG EOD
75 HMG ED
50 PROVIRON ED
0.5 ARI WEEK

Low FSH (it doesn't rise even with HMG) , low SHBG (16.4) , low sperm count, very high E2 (107!!)

The whole protocol isn't working, endo docs have no clue, no idea whats going wrong, our dream of having a child is already shattering.

I will do the protocol till end of february, if I've the same values in 3 weeks again I stop and start a geavy blast , 2022 I go back to stage.

I know 3 months is not long but NOTHING happens and values are worse than before!!

I hope @Sides and @bad rad can help me through DM, I'm lost!

I understand you're frustrated dude but holy hell, relax. It takes time.
I'm in the same position as you and I'm desperately trying to chill and remind myself that this doesn't happen in weeks....it happens in months. 3 months is just not enough time.

I'm fuckin sitting around here at 290lbs ready to cut for a show...but this pregnancy shit is more important that blasting and trying to get on stage this year. You do whatever u want to do, but whatever u choose will show what your priorities are. My wife and I had this discussion, i had a great offseason BUT, this year is about getting her pregnant. That's the goal. Not winning my class. So if i have to look meh and soft for a little longer to have a baby, I'm fine with it.

 

[Sec-Training]

I would up the dose for HCG for some time to see if it will help you like 1000 or 1500 3 times a week

I just got a seaman test because my girlfriend can't get pregnant
depens on what the test says i will go on a HCG cycle, HMG is so expensice even with ug is cost a lot money.

I will start with HCG and some nolva

 

[provimed50]

I would up the dose for HCG for some time to see if it will help you like 1000 or 1500 3 times a week

I just got a seaman test because my girlfriend can't get pregnant
depens on what the test says i will go on a HCG cycle, HMG is so expensice even with ug is cost a lot money.

I will start with HCG and some nolva

Yes and I use pharma grade, already bought HMG for £4.200 !!

@Sec-Training
TRT100/WK + HCG 1000X3 + 20 TAMOX ED ?

 

[Sec-Training]

Yes and I use pharma grade, already bought HMG for £4.200 !!

@Sec-Training
TRT100/WK + HCG 1000X3 + 20 TAMOX ED ?

I have Been off everthing for 1 year now.
Yeah i would start at a hugger dose for the first 3 Weeks 1-3 3x2500iu a week
Week 4-10 3x1000 a week this can chance.

Yeah 20mg nolva dont know for how Long yet

 

[Sec-Training]

@provimed50
Just be openminded, people just wanna help you.
I know this is hard i am in the same place as you.

 

[Alistair*]

This thread has been very informative. After 3 years of TRT with some blasts, my sperm came back zero. After one full year of 5000 iu a week of HCG (1,666, M, W, F,) my sperm is only up to 1.8 million. I have not exceeded 200mg of TRT a week during this time.

I have FSH on the way (Follistim) 75iu. 6 vials. Can anyone tell me if it’s better to pin it sub q or IM?

 

[beast405]

If trying to raise sperm count. Hmg is the key in my opinion !

 

[beast405]

About 3-4 months of hmg,hcg, clomid my sperm count went from 2 million to close to 30 million

 

[Gizmo2]

Was on TRT for almost a decade and ran a bunch of cycles also before and during TRT. My sperm count is normal now after almost 2 years and taking Clomid. It just takes more time for some than others.

 

[Alistair*]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I’m just going to pin the FSH (Follistim) intramuscular. 75 IU EOD opposite days of HCG injection. Since Clomid won’t hurt I’ll thrown in a low dose of 25mg EOD.

 

[Sec-Training]

I have Been off everthing for 1 year now.
Yeah i would start at a hugger dose for the first 3 Weeks 1-3 3x2500iu a week
Week 4-10 3x1000 a week this can chance.

Yeah 20mg nolva dont know for how Long yet

last cycle was 1,5 years from 1,5 grams to 250mg pr week after 1 year with no pct, my sperm count was normal and i am 41 years old

 

[Sec-Training]

Hi guys, I'm 36 (soon 37) yrs old, 177cm tall and my actual weight is bout 119kgs, low bf, I think 10-12%.

Whatever, I have a beautiful 5 year old daughter and months ago my wife and Idecided that we want a second child before we get too old, she is 32, me 36.

My cycles:

I run gear since many years, I think 11, in the beginning mostly just low dose Test. but then I started with comp's and my dosages rised and rised.
Test E., Susta, Deca, Tren, Mesterolone and Masterone were my main roids, HGH only 2 12month runs, last one ended 1 month ago (5 IUs Jintropin).

But since my daughter is born I stopped running "hard" gear but I run 900 Sust and 450 Deca all year round (!) together with 50mg Proviron, HGH as mentioned above.

Actually I run "only" 900 Sust together with 50 Proviron. (Sust: Mo / We / Fr)

Five years ago I dropped Test to 200mg Cyp weekly with 100mg Provimed and 3x250IU HCG, after 4 months my mrs. got pregnant!
I did only bloods at this time and they come back good except my LH / FSH which was below 0.2, but I was fertile. No idea why!

I found already so many fertility protocols in the net that I'm not sure whats wrong or right.

First I checked out Dave P's. protocol , damn very hars, not sure if I need it. Fertility doc. gives mostly bad or not succesful advice, I talked already with 2, one told me I should do a Clomid only therapy, thanks - but defo no!

Next week I'll do bloods and sperm check, I'll let u guys know the result!

I prepared a few options:

1. Running gear as I actually do, 900 Sust and 50mg Proviron and stack low dose HCG (3x250IU or 500IU week), if that is an option for how long should I try this option? (But to be honest, I don't think it will work, so much test will make fertility impossible I think)
2. Running 200mg Cypionat and 50mg Proviron and stack low dose HCG (3x250IU or 500IU week), if that is an option for how long should I try this option? (But to be honest, I don't think it will work, so much test will make fertility impossible I think)
3. Doing a PCT like: 1 week after last pin 1000IU HCG eod for a total of 3 weeks (One week HCG only 2 weeks with PCT). 2 weeks after last pin PCT: Clomid 100mg (after 2 weeks drop to 50 for 4 weeks more) , 40mg Tamox (after 2 weeks drop to 20 for 4 weeks more) and Aro (as needed, I think 25mg eod should be fine), Proviron needed too? Furthermore:1000mcg B12 injection, 2g Vit C daily, Vit E and D daily, Tribulus and then I hope system recovers, if not, so what? HCG low dose only? or directly option 4:
4. Super harsh: 1000-2000 HCG eod, 75IU HMG twice week, 50 Clomid for a total of 12 weeks, but if wife isn't pregnant till end of this hardcore run, so what? (To be honest for me this option is an overkill but heard it already from few competition guys that they had succes with this option! But no idea if these guys had luck or a good recovery system!

I hope u guys can help me, I'm really scared that I stay infertile. Wife wants to get pregnat as soon as possible, why so in hurry? Cause i can run this fertility program forever!

Thanks in advance guys!

Hey @provimed50

how is it going with you?

 

[Alistair*]

Just wanted to add that if anyone is having blood pressure issues on HCG like I did (despite AI use) switching from test cyp to test prop completely solved the problem.

 

[Needmassquick]

Nonsense. Please post some evidence/studies?

Estrogen is directly suppressive to steroli, leydig and germ cells in the testes. So thats why I suggest lowering exogenous Test when trying to conceive. Using more Test = more estrogen.

AI's dont work well with preventing testicular aromatase, so you're only hope really is to lower Test and use other fertility drugs like HCG, HMG and Clomid.

Could this be a reason to lower HCG? I've seen Dr. Rand McClain suggest 3000iu 3x per week, and in many studies they use 3000iu 3x per week but a huge caveat is that they only go that high if necessary to get testosterone up in a lot of the studies. Some specifically mentioning only going high enough on HCG to get testosterone into normal levels.

My endocrinologist told me "you can't increase HCG anymore because your testosterone is already normal". At the time I thought he was just being conservative, and perhaps bumping up my current 1000-1200iu 3x per week to 2000+iu 3x per week would be beneficial. But perhaps based on what you're saying it would actually be a negative? My estradiol is around 50. I started enclomiphene a month ago and have since dropped several pounds of water weight so it's clearly having anti-estrogenic properties but maybe there is still too much estrogen acting on the leydig and sertoli cells?

 

[Needmassquick]

Thanks for adding to this. I agree with what you said and it may be worth considering and something I will be implementing myself considering that HCG can actually down-regulate ERα expression so lower doses of HCG may be better than high doses. I have read that intra-testicular estrogen produced by the aromatization of intra-testicular testosterone is beneficial and a key component in fertility so up-regulating the ERα pathway may be beneficial to an overall pronounced effect.

"The regulation of ERα and ERβ expression by hCG was examined. hCG treatment (10 IU/mL) significantly attenuated the ERα (45%; P < 0.01) and ERβ (40%; P< 0.01) mRNA levels. The hCG-induced decrease in ERα and ERβ expression was mimicked by 8-bromo-cAMP (1 mmol/L) and forskolin (10μ mol/L) treatment."

Hormonal Regulation of Estrogen Receptor α and β Gene Expression in Human Granulosa-Luteal Cells in Vitro1

Estrogen is one of the major sex steroid hormones that is produced from the human ovary, and its actions are established to be a receptor-mediated process. Desp

academic.oup.com

Where did you see that intra-testiscular estrogen was important for fertility? I just saw Swifto say it is negative for fertility

I believe I’m using the same sponsors hmg, hcg as well. Just started 3 weeks ago. Have a script for clomid.
75iu hmg (eod)
2000iu hcg (eod)
50mg clomid (Ed)
Been trying for 2 years with just clomid and a little hcg and no aas at all so hopefully the hmg will do the trick. I’ve noticed definite increase in size of my jewels. I’ve also noticed much better erections and desire so I’m guessing it’s working. We a have a 7 years old together but didn’t start cycling until after he was born.
Ive also noticed in the last couple days that my nipples are starting to itch a bit. Do you guys think it would hurt to throw in 20mg of nolvadex every day?

How long did it take for the increase in testicle size? My libido is definitely bigger but no increase in size.

 

[Needmassquick]

I went through this but my infertility was not caused by AAS although the symptoms were identical.
MY doctor prescribed HCG 3x500 IU per week FSH 3 x per week( I don't remember the dose it was years ago) and clomid daily. I think it was 25 mg....FOR A YEAR before my sperm count went up. I have 2 amazing boys.
Hope this helps.

Were you at zero sperm along the way or did you notice it gradually going up over that time?

 

[John99Test]

I visited already 4 doc's, two had no clue about HMG or fertility and said only Clomid and going off will help, totally bullshit, one treated me like a junkie cause I use test, now only one helps me a bit and has knowledge, he checks my values regulary and prescribes me HCG and HMG but everytime I visit him he says "Still doesn't look good" - sucks!

Wasn’t able to DM you. Did you ever end up getting fertile?