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FIRST CYCLE; WHAT DO I DO WIT TEST!!

TonyFlags

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STATS: 20yrs 3tyr of serious training 188lbs at 5'8 10%BF?
already look like im juicing

im goin to run 300mg of QV DECA (maybe 200mg?) for 10 weeks with 15 to 20mg of DBOLS for 3 to 5 weeks; but the thing is i dont know what to do about TEST? All i could get right now Duratest (sus) shouild i run it at 250mg a week all the way through or should i up it to 500mg (is this really necesary for a 20yrar old) OR should i run 250mg of Sus and 200mg of Ethanate later on, can someone outline a good cycle for me cause i have no idea what to do abt test.
MY GOALS OR TO GAIN MASS BUT NOT THE BLOTE I KEEP HEARING SO MUCH ABT, IS MORE A MATTER OF DIET OR DRUGS. i WILL KEEP CARBS LOW (70-150G IS ALL MY BODY NEEDS AND CAN REALLY HANDLE) HIGH PROTIEN AND MOD.FAT
..
ANY INFO WOULD BE GREATLY APPREACIEATED
 

xcelbeyond

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I'll let others comment on cycle.

Generally speaking bloat isn't bad - it's simply water weight. You can gain a lot of strength from it. I don't like it 'cause it raises my BP too high and I don't like the Pillsbury Doughboy Look :eek:

What you need to realize with bloat (which the sustanon or d-bol can do) is that you'll gain size fast - BUT, it goes away about as fast after the cycle. Aromatase inhibitors such as letrozole (my preference) or anastrozole really reduces bloat in most people. I'm also very prone e-related gyno and these help prevent that. On my first cycle, I had STRONG signs of gyno when I hit 400 mg test :(

xcel
 

Tadger

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Personally, I say scrap the nandrolone. Your cycle should be test based. I am not a nandrolone fan at all... the stuff will cause all kinds of problems, and there's little point in fuckin with all that when a nice simple test/dbol cycle will get the job done.

As for the anti-aromatases... never do a cycle without em. Fuck, gyno protection and water retention are only a very small part of the equation. There are many benefits to using an anti-aromatase, even on low dose cycles, and the fact that they're dirt fuckin cheap now makes it even better. There's no excuse not to use em.

Run some anastrozole or letrozole all the way through the cycle and recovery. Run that test at 500mg/wk. Frontload with a couple grams or so (I'd almost recommend more) over the first two weeks... then run it 500mg/wk straight through. Start your dbol so that you're still usin it for a good 3 weeks or longer after your last injection. This will keep nitrogen retention and protein synthesis up while that test is startin to peter off. Then drop the dbol, hit the clomid and you're good to go.
 

smallsparrow

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I agree with what everyone else has said other than the frontload of 2 grams.......why slam your system like that and risk your system not being able to ever recover post-cycle? You wouldn't turn the volume up full blast on your stereo system then turn it on would you? no.....it would blow your speakers to hell, so you ease the volume up as you go...right??!!! if you want to kick start your system, run the orals for a week or so then add in the test at a moderate dose........i'm no expert, but that makes more sense to me, and is much safer on your system......peace and stay safe all....ss.
 

Dave_19

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smallsparrow said:
I agree with what everyone else has said other than the frontload of 2 grams.......why slam your system like that and risk your system not being able to ever recover post-cycle? You wouldn't turn the volume up full blast on your stereo system then turn it on would you? no.....it would blow your speakers to hell, so you ease the volume up as you go...right??!!! if you want to kick start your system, run the orals for a week or so then add in the test at a moderate dose........i'm no expert, but that makes more sense to me, and is much safer on your system......peace and stay safe all....ss.
stereos and human bodys are much different, this is like ronnie coleman trying to explain muscle memory with the metaphore of leaving a car in a garage for a long time:p
 

smallsparrow

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so your saying on his first cycle he should stick 2 grams in him right off the bat? what about easing into his cycle and adjust it as his body reacts to the substance he is putting into it?? lets use not abuse!!!
 

Winston

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Dave_19 said:


stereos and human bodys are much different, this is like ronnie coleman trying to explain muscle memory with the metaphore of leaving a car in a garage for a long time:p
Is that a quote Dave ?

Winston
 

xcelbeyond

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Dave_19 said:
.. adex/letro inhibit gains, decrease IGF-1. he will probably see less gains while on if he uses this, I wouldnt touch any anti-e's while on that little begginer cycles especially advanced ones unless problems occur, i do think its smart to have novla on hand because its dirt cheap, but letro/adex is not "dirt" cheap 5x the price of novla.
I think you've got the IGF-1 thing mixed up in you head bro.

Letrozole substantially increases IGF-1 (plenty of studies to back this up). Anastrozole increases it somewhat. Nolva substantially DECREASES IGF-1.

I can get liquid anastrozole MUCH cheaper than nolva - so you need check out other sources :)

xcel
 

MikeS

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God what a bunch of conflicting info! Thats OK... heres some more. :D
Crazy to front load 2g wk for a 1st timer. Does anyone remember their 1st cycle, 7-10days it hits you and just keeps getting up from there? I love to front load but for a newbie this is not needed. Deca is best thing on earth for joints. Yes it shuts down HPTA but its not that horrible a drug overall-I use 300-400mg wk always for the joint lube effect. IGF1 is INCREASED with Animidex or Letrozole. But the lack of water weight gain will reduce overall size and strength some. I say with 250-500mg sust, Id get some Arimidex or nolv (which DOES reduce IGF1) and keep it handy-just use if any signs of gyno or extreme (not likely at all) bloat. Otherwise save it for a future cycle.

So my suggestion: 500mg sust - 200mg deca run through. Keep anti estros on hand in case of problems. If you can get some Winny and run the last 3wks of cycle with test/deca-then keep it coing for another 3wks after test/deca ends (total 6wks winny).
 

xcelbeyond

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MikeS said:
So my suggestion: 500mg sust - 200mg deca run through. Keep anti estros on hand in case of problems. If you can get some Winny and run the last 3wks of cycle with test/deca-then keep it coing for another 3wks after test/deca ends (total 6wks winny).
Also - by doing what MikeS suggests will allow you to begin post-cycle clomid therapy next day after quitting winny. Otherwise, you must wait 2-3 weeks for sust to clear and in that amount of time can loose a lot of gains.

xcel
 
M

Mr Pickels

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my first cycle.

400mg Test enathate per week
75mg Tren EOD
1 IP arimidex EOD

I took 1 IP arimidex EOD once the bloat started i recommend doing it right from the start.

i ran it for 10 weeks.... i gained 30lbs... hope this helps you..
 

Dave_19

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Winston said:


Is that a quote Dave ?

Winston
i said its like him trying to EXPLAIN, did i put quotations smart ass, if i did it would make him look 10x dumber i think it goes something like this "i kinda like too like 2-3 months off training, i figure u know i be training 20 somethin 20 someodd years now, ya know is like a car, u know u can build a car, and just cuz u dont drive it u could kinda like keep it in da garage for awhile and its still gonna be just as good" --Battle For olympia 99

so ya I could have posted that much dumber version, im sure im off a couple words ive only seen it 3x's but thats about how he explains it.
 

Dave_19

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xcelbeyond said:

I think you've got the IGF-1 thing mixed up in you head bro.

Letrozole substantially increases IGF-1 (plenty of studies to back this up). Anastrozole increases it somewhat. Nolva substantially DECREASES IGF-1.

I can get liquid anastrozole MUCH cheaper than nolva - so you need check out other sources :)

xcel
yes ur right letro does increase it, im thinking of nolva/clomid, thanks for not being a dick about it, so u say check out other sources, so what should I drop our sponser bec thats who im going through....
 

Tadger

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Dave_19,

I'm not saying that nandrolone won't put the meat on. It is good at that... the sides are annoying as shit though.

Nandrolone has been showed to desensitize the leydig cells to pituitary hormones. This is the main reason that nandrolone is so hard to recover from. Even though GnRH, FSH and LH levels may be up, the leydig cells just don't produce test. This is why HCG does absolutely jack shit after a cycle containing deca. This desensitization typically persists for several months post cycle. If you don't believe me... go ahead and get a full blood panel done before and several times post cycle.

Next, nandrolone metabolites are present in the body well after your cycle ends. This accounts for the inordinate detection times associated with nandrolone use (13 months... give or take). These metabolites have, in some studies, been showed to be biologically active, and may well contribute to the test suppression exibited post cycle.

Additionally, nandrolone is not good for the joints as most people say it is. The relief you feel has nothing to do with more water retention in the joints or anything like that. Nandrolone simply binds to the glucocorticoid receptor and interferes with the action of real corticoids. Corticoids are responsible for the inflammation and discomfort you'll feel if you've got a damaged or overworked joint/tendon/ligament. That pain is there for a reason. If you disable that mechanism, you're more prone to injury than you were before. The nandrolone will satiate the pain, then you'll resume your heavy lifting... and because you're on cycle you'll probably lift even heavier. This will only cause further damage.

If you've got winny in the cycle, or you're runnin high doses of test, then you're gonna do even more damage. Winny causes overstimulation of collagenase, while test causes suppression. That is what accounts for the sore joints while using winny or high doses of test. The interference leaves the joints not just sore, but less elastic, more brittle and prone to injury. It's not just the joints that are at risk, but all connective tissues...

Anyway... um... I'd add more but I'm short on time at the moment. Some people swear by the stuff... but personally, I am not a fan at all.
 

TonyFlags

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whats really good, just to let you's know what im doin wit my cycle; this is the advice from a man WHOS KNOWS HIS SHIT AND WAA NATIONAL COMPATATOR, HE AINT KNOW REULAR JOE FROM DA BLOCK, SO i really respect his words:
25 mg of d-bol for 4 weeks
300mg of Deca for 10 weeks
200mg of test ethanate (maybe 400mg if i really think it necessary) for 10 weeks
DIET: low carb, 88-150gms
PROTIEN: 200gms
FAT: 40-80gms
AND 3 CARDIO SESIONS FOR 30 MIN
HE SAID THIS IS GOIN TO GET ME HARD AND "LOOK" HUGE CAUSE IM GOI TO GAIN MUSCLE WITH SOME ADDED DEFINITION CAUSE OF LOW WATER RETETION DUE TO MY LOW CARB DIET AND CARDIO, SO WHAT TO YOU'S THINK, IS THIS SOUND ADVICE????
P.S I KNOW ALL YOU'S OR GOIN TO SAY, 200 GMS OF PROTIEN ARE U FUKIN KIDDEN ME!!!!! WELL THIS FRIEND TURNED GURU, HAS A CUZ WHO IS A VERY FAMOUS BODYBUILDER RIGHT NOW HE'S A MONSTER AND ONLY EATS 200GMS OF PROTIEN DURING THE OFFSEASON AND 300 WHEN HE'S GETTING READY FOR A SHOW. SO IM GOIN TO C WHAT HAPPENS
 

xcelbeyond

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TonyFlags said:
AND 3 CARDIO SESIONS FOR 30 MIN
HE SAID THIS IS GOIN TO GET ME HARD AND "LOOK" HUGE CAUSE IM GOI TO GAIN MUSCLE WITH SOME ADDED DEFINITION CAUSE OF LOW WATER RETETION DUE TO MY LOW CARB DIET AND CARDIO, SO WHAT TO YOU'S THINK, IS THIS SOUND ADVICE????
P.S I KNOW ALL YOU'S OR GOIN TO SAY, 200 GMS OF PROTIEN ARE U FUKIN KIDDEN ME!!!!! WELL THIS FRIEND TURNED GURU, HAS A CUZ WHO IS A VERY FAMOUS BODYBUILDER RIGHT NOW HE'S A MONSTER
Well - Why do you even ask for our advice if you have a "guru" to guide you!?!?!?! Haven't you read the posts here about following "one's" advice through 'til the end?!?!?

For me, 150g carbs IS NOT "low." Is that 3 cardio sessions a day? Do you realize that you'll only be eating ~2100 calories a day?

This "monster" is probably a genetic freak (lucky bastard). These guys can do "anything" and make gains. Since this is your "virgin" cycle (which is your BEST opportunity to make gains), everyone here is only trying to help you optimize that. Even if you do blow-up, your frind doesn't have a very good post-cycle plan (or did you just fail to mention it?).

My prediction is (unless you're a genetic freak) you'll lose muscle following this routine. I take that back. Since this is your first cycle you'll gain very little or nothing. You will find out that 200mg test is not enough, so you'll bump it up to 400mg - when the real problem is your diet, not how much gear (read my signature!)

xcel
 

xcelbeyond

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Since you're 20 (no slam about your age), unless you're a serious ecto, you haven't come near close to your natural peak. My suggestion is to figure out your diet before you get onto juice (I did) and take adavantage of everything at your dispose BEFORE you do juice.

Apparently you're not a genetic freak given your strong desire to get bigger - the supposedly "quick" way.

xcel
 

Tadger

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xcelbeyond said:
My suggestion is to figure out your diet before you get onto juice (I did) and take adavantage of everything at your dispose BEFORE you do juice.
Wise words.
 

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