Front loading?

[xxsuprman22xx]

i've heard so many opinions on this. so tell me from experience, does it work. looks great on paper - but we all know that can be misleading.

I've never tried. will be running a gram a week, which equates to roughly 150mg in your blood ed when shot 500mg mon/thursday. now on paper a single inject of 1250 will get you to 150mg right away then 500mg mon/thursday will keep it stable. btw estrogen is not a problem as i always have plent of ai, and would adjust accordingly.

heres what it looks like on paper

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

btw im refrencing test enanthate

 

[617ricky]

How did you come up with that chart? I'm not sure how a single injection of 1250 can get you at the 150mg/day level, whereas the 500mg on Mon/Thurs will take a month to get there?

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

as you can see the amount of test in your system with 1250 starts right at 150mg where as it takes 4 weeks with not frontloading. like i said looks good on paper but would love to hear your guys opinions

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

How did you come up with that chart? I'm not sure how a single injection of 1250 can get you at the 150mg/day level, whereas the 500mg on Mon/Thurs will take a month to get there?

roid calc gave me the numbers. i typed them into excel and made the double line graph.

and it does make sense if you think about it 500mg gives about 60mg

1250 is about 2.5 x that and that gives you 150mg

 

[PharmGrown]

I'm really thinking that chart is not accurate but I could be wrong..... I don't see how your getting 150mg every day? Its not a time release drug. The reason for frequent injections is because the blood levels will pyramid up and down and with frequent injections they will overlap and create a stable level. Or at least thats what I thought..

 

[abolish the weak]

I never liked frontloading long acting esters, it made me kind of sick feeling

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

I'm really thinking that chart is not accurate but I could be wrong..... I don't see how your getting 150mg every day? Its not a time release drug. The reason for frequent injections is because the blood levels will pyramid up and down and with frequent injections they will overlap and create a stable level. Or at least thats what I thought..

" Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation."

from my understanding, the ester(enathate) control hows much of the steroid (testosterone) is released into blood circulation. so i guess it is like time release.

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

btw

there are peaks and valleys, the chart is not detailed enough.

it goes as high as 160mg after injection and to as low as 120mg before the next inject.

i just showed blood levels on a weekly basis not daily. didnt feel like entering 100 cells worth of data.

 

[617ricky]

Theoretically it's like a time-release, but that's not exactly how it ends up working out in the body.. If it were so cut and dry, everyone would just do Enan. every 10 days, but if you did that you wouldn't have even hormone levels, even tho on paper it would seem you should..

I'm gonna be starting a cycle next month, and it's gonna be 1cc of Enan. every 3 days.. But at the beginning instead of front-loading a larger dose of Enan. like that, I'm gonna be doing 50mg Prop. EOD for like 2 wks.

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

Theoretically it's like a time-release, but that's not exactly how it ends up working out in the body.. If it were so cut and dry, everyone would just do Enan. every 10 days, but if you did that you wouldn't have even hormone levels, even tho on paper it would seem you should..

I'm gonna be starting a cycle next month, and it's gonna be 1cc of Enan. every 3 days.. But at the beginning instead of front-loading a larger dose of Enan. like that, I'm gonna be doing 50mg Prop. EOD for like 2 wks.

yes it is that cut and dry. you inject 1250mg enanthate, it forms a depot and the enanthate ester will release 154mg worth of testosterone within the first 24 hrs, the next it has released 134, next 116, etc

its not an even time release and thats why the injects are mon/th to keep levels as stable as possible but they still do peak as high as 164 and as low as 118.

you dont inject 250mg of testosterone and have 250mg in circulation and have bits become inactive . it doesnt go from 250, to 240, 230. testosterone itself has a very very short half life and the ester is what controls how much is in circulation at one time.

 

[PharmGrown]

I was under the assumption that the ester controlled the entire release of the hormone. For example, the enanthate ester would hold to the test for several days before being broken away and the entire hormone would be released instead of the body slowly breaking away small amounts of the hormone. That doesn't make sense to me. If the body could break away 150mg of test from the ester why not break away all of the hormone at that time?

 

[617ricky]

yes it is that cut and dry. you inject 1250mg enanthate, it forms a depot and the enanthate ester will release 154mg worth of testosterone within the first 24 hrs, the next it has released 134, next 116, etc

How are you throwing out exact numbers like that? That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say it's not cut and dry like that - for example Enan. is active for 10 days - but you're not getting exactly 10% of it each day, that's not how it ends up working out.. Enan. peaks on the 2nd or 3rd day after injecting and then declines.. If it WERE as cut and dry as getting a tidy exact dosage each day, then you'd only have to inject it every 10 days.. I know how the esterification system works, but things don't pan out exactly as they hypothetically should.

 

[b-boy]

damn this thread is entertaining to say the least :st:r-wars

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

I was under the assumption that the ester controlled the entire release of the hormone. For example, the enanthate ester would hold to the test for several days before being broken away and the entire hormone would be released instead of the body slowly breaking away small amounts of the hormone. That doesn't make sense to me. If the body could break away 150mg of test from the ester why not break away all of the hormone at that time?

the ester does control the entire release of the hormone. and it gives you roughly 12% of whats available.

so you inject 500mg of test e

within the first 24hrs you are given roughly 12% which is 61mg

nextday you are down to 439mg test and you are given over the course of the day roughly 12% which will bring you down to 54mg test.

then your left with 385 and you lose another 12% which brings you to 47mg being released thoughou the day and so on and so forth

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

How are you throwing out exact numbers like that? That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say it's not cut and dry like that - for example Enan. is active for 10 days - but you're not getting exactly 10% of it each day, that's not how it ends up working out.. Enan. peaks on the 2nd or 3rd day after injecting and then declines.. If it WERE as cut and dry as getting a tidy exact dosage each day, then you'd only have to inject it every 10 days.. I know how the esterification system works, but things don't pan out exactly as they hypothetically should.

as addressed before it is not a steady release. 100mg over 10 days would not equate to 10mg released each day. you use the 12%(rough # at best) released over a period of 24 hrs.

day 1 12mg
day 2 11mg
day 3 09mg

etc get it? btw i know it doesnt equal 100mg exactly, thats why the 12% is rough

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

the enanthate ester would hold to the test for several days before being broken away and the entire hormone would be released instead of the body slowly breaking away small amounts of the hormone.

so you're under the assumption that at one point your body has 250mg of active testosterone?

testosterone only has an active life of hrs once released from the enanthate ester. just some food for thought.

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

all data came from roid calc. i trust 'em

so if you are calling the figures wrong, you're calling roidcalc wrong.

 

[vgrande]

i've read the science about the concept of frontloading on another board before and it made perfect sense to me, considering i have a chemistry background.

basically if you were to inject without a frontload, you'd have to build up the amount of test in the body to the point where the amount of test being used up by the body is equal to the amounts being introduced, as shown in the graph above. with a frontload, you skip the whole building up thing by introducing a large amount of test and then simply maintaining that amount.

personally i've used the frontload approach and i've felt the elevated effects of T and seen gains come to me within a week.

 

[Crom]

I allways frontload with long esters. Why wait 3-4 weeks for a slow build up when you can get your levels up from first shot!?