Gauging Insulin Dosages?

[thedorkyd1]

So I wanted to do a few blood glucose readings to try and figure out how insulin and hgh are working in my body. Below is the following timings and readings of the short test I did. Note I am currently taking 12iu HGH/day:


10:55pm - Blood glucose before meal 4: 114
11:00pm - Inject 3iu HGH
11:20pm - Blood glucose: 140
11:25pm - Inject 8iu Humalog
11:45pm - Blood glucose: 103
11:50pm - Eat meal - 60p/40c/2f (carb source: sweet potato)

Taking this into account, is there a blood glucose reading one should aim to be at before consuming a meal? So for this specific scenario should I have taken more insulin to lower blood glucose further? Or was this an adequate amount? Im currently 1.5 hours post meal and feeling completely fine, 0 hypo symptoms etc.

Im trying to understand when using insulin, how are you meant to know if you've used enough or not enough and for maximum results, should amount of IU's go up with the same carb intake?

Thanks for reading guys

 

[Gunsmith]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by doing this??
Just keeping blood sugar low??

 

[Kaladryn]

I know this, when you are super sensitive to slin (as you probably aren't) 2iu can have the effect of 10iu. I feel like everyone using higher amounts has significant insulin resistance. Not necessarily that important to your situation, just a word of caution for everyone.

 

[saudades]

So I wanted to do a few blood glucose readings to try and figure out how insulin and hgh are working in my body. Below is the following timings and readings of the short test I did. Note I am currently taking 12iu HGH/day:


10:55pm - Blood glucose before meal 4: 114
11:00pm - Inject 3iu HGH
11:20pm - Blood glucose: 140
11:25pm - Inject 8iu Humalog
11:45pm - Blood glucose: 103
11:50pm - Eat meal - 60p/40c/2f (carb source: sweet potato)

Taking this into account, is there a blood glucose reading one should aim to be at before consuming a meal? So for this specific scenario should I have taken more insulin to lower blood glucose further? Or was this an adequate amount? Im currently 1.5 hours post meal and feeling completely fine, 0 hypo symptoms etc.

Im trying to understand when using insulin, how are you meant to know if you've used enough or not enough and for maximum results, should amount of IU's go up with the same carb intake?

Thanks for reading guys

For your first question, your glucose reading can be from 80 - 120 before a meal as a "normal" range. In your scenario, you should be testing glucose again at 2 hours post meal. Feeling symptom free isn't really a good measurement to go by. You can be "symptom free" and have a glucose number that is bad in either direction. You'd want to check what your number is 2 hours after eating that meal. If it's above 130 at that point, then you have a problem because that number is in the diabetic range and if below 70, you're hypoglycemic and need to bring it up. As someone with reactive hypoglycemia, I had to learn to check at various points because sometimes I do "feel fine" yet my number can be in the 60s which is bad. The only way to check if your dosage was adequate is to measure frequently and at the right times.

For your last question if I understand what you're trying to get at, the answer is actually that you don't know. There's a reason that they measure glucose before a glucose test when you're fasting and after 1 hour and 2 hours after. That's to establish a baseline as to how your body reacts with your own insulin. You're not really going to be able to predict your real numbers when you test your own glucose after a day of activity, eating, exercising, etc., because there are too many factors that affect it to know what that number should be after taking whatever doses of HGH or insulin. Secondly, when you take either HGH or insulin, you have to allow for those substances to peak and exert their effect within their window. In your example, the number you get after taking the 8iu Humalog only 20 minutes after is not a number that tells you any useful information because it's still exerting its effect and will for 4 hours. I hate to say it, but if you really want to basically try to predict the numbers, you'll have to get used to testing a number of times, knowing the exact number of carbs (and their glycemic index because not all carbs absorb at the same rate), dosage of insulin, etc., graph them until you've done it enough times to get an average statistical number. Even then, something external can still cause numbers to deviate so the process won't be perfect. You have to get used to how your body responds and measure, measure, measure.

 

[thedorkyd1]

I know this, when you are super sensitive to slin (as you probably aren't) 2iu can have the effect of 10iu. I feel like everyone using higher amounts has significant insulin resistance. Not necessarily that important to your situation, just a word of caution for everyone.

I thought it was pretty crazy as if been on 12iu for less than a month. My BS readings havr gone from 72 to 91 fasted with the same diet and havr actually added 1 hour liss fasted since starting the GH. Ive heard you can also push insulin higher when using with GH due to the increase in blood sugar from FFA dumping into the blood stream.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by doing this??
Just keeping blood sugar low??

Im trying to get the most I can out of slin. For example will I havr better results if I did 10iu?, 15iu? Or maybe even 6iu for that meal? If we are trying to maximize anabolism and minimize fat gains then is it good to push our blood sugar lower and keep it there over the active window...or do we want it higher etc.

For your first question, your glucose reading can be from 80 - 120 before a meal as a "normal" range. In your scenario, you should be testing glucose again at 2 hours post meal. Feeling symptom free isn't really a good measurement to go by. You can be "symptom free" and have a glucose number that is bad in either direction. You'd want to check what your number is 2 hours after eating that meal. If it's above 130 at that point, then you have a problem because that number is in the diabetic range and if below 70, you're hypoglycemic and need to bring it up. As someone with reactive hypoglycemia, I had to learn to check at various points because sometimes I do "feel fine" yet my number can be in the 60s which is bad. The only way to check if your dosage was adequate is to measure frequently and at the right times.

For your last question if I understand what you're trying to get at, the answer is actually that you don't know. There's a reason that they measure glucose before a glucose test when you're fasting and after 1 hour and 2 hours after. That's to establish a baseline as to how your body reacts with your own insulin. You're not really going to be able to predict your real numbers when you test your own glucose after a day of activity, eating, exercising, etc., because there are too many factors that affect it to know what that number should be after taking whatever doses of HGH or insulin. Secondly, when you take either HGH or insulin, you have to allow for those substances to peak and exert their effect within their window. In your example, the number you get after taking the 8iu Humalog only 20 minutes after is not a number that tells you any useful information because it's still exerting its effect and will for 4 hours. I hate to say it, but if you really want to basically try to predict the numbers, you'll have to get used to testing a number of times, knowing the exact number of carbs (and their glycemic index because not all carbs absorb at the same rate), dosage of insulin, etc., graph them until you've done it enough times to get an average statistical number. Even then, something external can still cause numbers to deviate so the process won't be perfect. You have to get used to how your body responds and measure, measure, measure.

Thank you for such an in depth and detailed reply. For my second question im trying to find out what should I be aiming to achieve (BS levels wise) for maximum anabolism and minimim fat gain. Should i be trying to drivr blood sugar down and keep it low through the active window, or am i trying to drive it low then elevate it really high, or drive it low then keep it moderate etc.

Also if for example my blood sugar is above 130, 2 hours post meal, but I have done my usual dosage of 3iu GH in this window, is this still a cause for concern? Because as seen with my readings above. Within 20 minutes my blood sugar jumped around 25 points and in this example, 2 hours post meal is around the time GH should have hit peak levels, assuming this is when my blood sugar should be highest

 

[saudades]

Thank you for such an in depth and detailed reply. For my second question im trying to find out what should I be aiming to achieve (BS levels wise) for maximum anabolism and minimim fat gain. Should i be trying to drivr blood sugar down and keep it low through the active window, or am i trying to drive it low then elevate it really high, or drive it low then keep it moderate etc.

Also if for example my blood sugar is above 130, 2 hours post meal, but I have done my usual dosage of 3iu GH in this window, is this still a cause for concern? Because as seen with my readings above. Within 20 minutes my blood sugar jumped around 25 points and in this example, 2 hours post meal is around the time GH should have hit peak levels, assuming this is when my blood sugar should be highest

Having a high blood sugar measurement is not an indicator of anabolism. Whatever the levels jump to after a meal, you want them to come back down below 120, preferably around 90-100 as my doc has always told me. If for your example, you are at 130 after 2 hours, then you're too high although that number is technically borderline high. It should come down below 120. The problem is that blood sugar levels really don't indicate how well you've pushed nutrients into the muscles. The number can't tell you what went into the muscle and what went into fat, but I'd concede that if you're looking for max anabolism, minimum fat gain—if your number is high, then you haven't done enough. This is because whatever that difference between the high level and a normal level is, that's a percentage of some potential glycogen that *could* theoretically still be pushed into the muscle. In your example of a reading of 130, that 30 point difference to say a level of 100 then, a percentage of that could still be pushed into the muscle. And what percent? We don't know and probably can't know, but it's still a percentage that you're missing. Does that make sense?

So for maximum effect and to keep yourself out of diabetic blood sugar levels, it's best to always drive levels to that 90-100 range IMO. For minimum fat gain, I'd venture to say that's more a function of diet, i.e., macro percentages of carbs, protein, and fat. That's something else entirely here that I won't go into.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

^ good answer

but I think its even simpler

you use the insulin so your blood sugar WON'T stay high...the insulin disposes of the carbs/aminos into the muscle while you've pumped it up during a workout. If you dose the insulin and time the carbs correctly then you won't have sky high blood sugar levels...

You do not want your blood sugar to stay elevated for any substantive period of time at all...

 

[saudades]

^^ Exactly.

 

[thedorkyd1]

^ good answer

but I think its even simpler

you use the insulin so your blood sugar WON'T stay high...the insulin disposes of the carbs/aminos into the muscle while you've pumped it up during a workout. If you dose the insulin and time the carbs correctly then you won't have sky high blood sugar levels...

You do not want your blood sugar to stay elevated for any substantive period of time at all...

So if that's the case, every time I inject my 3 iu of GH (4 times per day) I should dose it with insulin (even if this is a bandaid solution) so blood sugars arent elevated for a substantive period of time?

 

[IronLion2]

So if that's the case, every time I inject my 3 iu of GH (4 times per day) I should dose it with insulin (even if this is a bandaid solution) so blood sugars arent elevated for a substantive period of time?

No because insulin is not stopping the negative effects of the GH, it's simply allowing for proper metabolism while under the GH curve. IMO you're better off to use the gh when blood sugar is already lower; upon wakeing, before bed, or in the workout window with minor to moderate dose of insulin. But hey, wtf do I know.

 

[Reno911]

[QUOTE=

10:55pm - Blood glucose before meal 4: 114
11:00pm - Inject 3iu HGH
11:20pm - Blood glucose: 140
11:25pm - Inject 8iu Humalog
11:45pm - Blood glucose: 103
11:50pm - Eat meal - 60p/40c/2f (carb source: sweet potato)


I'm confused here. What is the purpose of taking Log this late at night? Are you training at 12:30 or 12:45 AM? 8iu isn't any sort of a crazy dose but why would you want it in your system for 4 hours that late at night?

 

[saudades]

I was wondering the same thing, but I assumed he may be on a graveyard shift or something unless he meant am instead of pm.

 

[Kaladryn]

Remember, the current theory is that insulin resistance doesn't come from insulin, it comes from sugar. This is the opposite of the old theory. This is straight from the mouth of a great diabetic endo specialist.

 

[thedorkyd1]

No because insulin is not stopping the negative effects of the GH, it's simply allowing for proper metabolism while under the GH curve. IMO you're better off to use the gh when blood sugar is already lower; upon wakeing, before bed, or in the workout window with minor to moderate dose of insulin. But hey, wtf do I know.

Due to my schedule, my last meal is eaten pretty much 30 minutes before bed so blood sugars won't be low enough at night to take it then. In this case are you saying it's better to do 6iu before fasted cardio and then 6iu post workout/towards the middle/end of my workout? I thought splitting it 3iu every 4 or so hours would be more beneficial for fat loss and igf-1 levels. Even though I've researched the hell out of this topic there are so many differing opinions and ideas on what the best method is.

10:55pm - Blood glucose before meal 4: 114
11:00pm - Inject 3iu HGH
11:20pm - Blood glucose: 140
11:25pm - Inject 8iu Humalog
11:45pm - Blood glucose: 103
11:50pm - Eat meal - 60p/40c/2f (carb source: sweet potato)


I'm confused here. What is the purpose of taking Log this late at night? Are you training at 12:30 or 12:45 AM? 8iu isn't any sort of a crazy dose but why would you want it in your system for 4 hours that late at night?

Yeah I usually work overnight so this is only meal 4 out of 6 for me. Also I don't believe insulin is something that can only be utilized strictly around the workout window. You're talking in a tone that suggests this idea is so farfetched haha

Remember, the current theory is that insulin resistance doesn't come from insulin, it comes from sugar. This is the opposite of the old theory. This is straight from the mouth of a great diabetic endo specialist.

If this is the case and I have no simple carbs in my diet, doing fasted cardio every morning and training 3 on 1 off, carbs hang around 250-300 also, then I shouldn't have a problem with insulin resistance? Im thinking the use of GH in high doses changes this though.

 

[Kaladryn]

It doesn't' matter what kind of carbs you eat, that is why glycemic load is more important than glycemic index, too much time with elevated glucose makes cells less receptive to insulin (glut4 pathway I guess), and you have to eat carbs if you take slin to prevent hypoglycemia. Too low of glucose will also cause physiological insulin resistance as well (to save sugar for the brain).

 

[Reno911]

I'm not sure a "haha" is warranted in your explanation. If that's how you feel about insulin then why wouldn't you utilize Humalin R or Lantus?