gh & water retention

[edge250]

anyway to control this????? help i'm floating. nutropin 5iu eod. thanks

 

[dr. livingstone]

I had a discussion on another board about what causes the water retention from HGH and what can be done about it. Doctor Speer thinks that it is caused by ADH and be controlled with Clonidine. "Rager 2500" thinks the water retention is caused by Renin Angiotenisen Aldesterone and can be controlled by using captopril in combination with a mild thiazide.


Originally Posted by dr. livingstone

Doctor David Speer thinks the water retention from HGH is caused by an increased release of ADH:

"The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary.
This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine's primary action is retarding ADH secretion."

**broken link removed**

"Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH."

**broken link removed**


Rager 2500:

I found his article as well when I was searching. The thing is, he has no medical research behind it to support his theory. I found 3 articles to support the idea of Renin Angiotenisen Aldesterone is responsible for HGH water bloat. They general idea was to take a blood pressure medication like clonidine, diovan, etc to ensure the blockage of the Angiotensin receptor. The only problem is, blood pressure meds are classified differently such as clonidine and diovan being ARB blockers and captopril being an ACE blocker. Well, it works out that we need the ACE blocker which blocks the Angiotensin Converting Enzyme. Anyways the studies show that you need an ACE blocker with something that blocks the aldesterone pathway like a thiazide dierutic. We had clonidine on hand first, but couldnt figure out why it wasnt working. Thats when we did a further search and found what I posted above. I've tried dostinex (prolactin), clonidine, diovan, and cozzar(all ARB blockers). The only thing that has dried my training partner and I are the captopril with a mild thiazide. I dont try to come off as a HGH guru, just trying to help some bros out here that have been experiencing the problems. Dr. Speer was on the right track, just never did any studies to back it up. Hope this helps Livingstone. I always loved Jins cause of the price and quality, but never wanted to deal with the water bloat.

 

[Qwert]

Does anyone know what the proper dosage would be while taking GH?

 

[dr. livingstone]

Posted by Rager 2500:

Livingstone- Captopril was used at 25mg at first, then increased to 50mg where we found it worked around 4-6IU's. Dr. prescribed a thiazide that was NOT potassium sparing because of the HGH, again you have excess to get rid of and if you don't, and have too much build up of potassium, well you know what happens. Heart attack. Thiazide was given at 25mg. In the study I found, they used Aldactone at mild dosages, but Aldactone is also proven to lower androgen levels by a significant amount. They actually use it for testicular cancer patietns because of its effectiveness to lower androgens in the body. That means even on gear, its still bad.

 

[hardkor]

why 5 iu's EOD? never heard of EOD day method but maybe try 2-3 everyday. Seems to be the typical dosing. I use about 4 a day 5 days per week and don't have the retention problem.

 

[ag-guys]

anyway to control this????? help i'm floating. nutropin 5iu eod. thanks

how about a little lasix ?


AG
www.ag-guys.com

 

[edge250]

why 5 iu's EOD? never heard of EOD day method but maybe try 2-3 everyday. Seems to be the typical dosing. I use about 4 a day 5 days per week and don't have the retention problem.

eod dosing keeps me from getting carpal tunnel, i have experimented with different dosing protocols and this personally has given me the best results and fewer sides. i have had water retention problems with gh no matter what though. i guess it the same as asking why are you taking 2 days off

 

[edge250]

ag-guy i have some lasix laying around i was just worried about it maybe being to harsh, might give it a try though. thanks for all the replies guys

 

[Fullybuilt]

I think a big part of the bloat comes from raised prolactin levels, which HGH does cause. I take .5mg Cabergoline every 3rd or 4th day and it helped my bloat back when I took 4iu's of GH. ALso, I bloated bad the first 2months of GH, but after a while it seemed like my body got used to it, and the bloat slowly subsided. I got a blood test done on 4iu's HGH a while back and still have the results. I got tested for a ton of crap CBC,prolactin,etc.... What would tell if your potassium levels are high/low so I can look at the results? Thanks

 

[Fullybuilt]

SO what if your on GH and your bloodpressure isnt too high. Pretty normal, but your still bloated. There has to be a way for us to figure out how to rid the bloat, doses at 4iu+ causes.

 

[edge250]

gonna see what my doc says about clonidine.

 

[MikeS]

I dont think that gh raises prolactin levels that much...
If the condition is already present wouldnt any mild dieuretic work?
I can see using Captopril to nip the problem in the bud.
Interesting stuff, good info.

 

[Magnum]

gonna see what my doc says about clonidine.

Yo biguy. If it's just your BP that your concerned with your doc will recommend Atacand. I was using clonidine at .5 twice daily but it made me really tired. If its just the water retention I don't think that there is anything you can do about it short of lowering your dose which is defeating the purpose. Although there is more water held by the body while using GH, I'm not convinced that the carpel tunnel complaints I here are specifically from water retention.

 

[edge250]

thanks magnum. might come see ya this week

 

[Fullybuilt]

So what do you guys think, go with clonidine or go with the captopril/mild thiazide?

 

[LEX]

I been at 3 ius eod and on the day I use I have a little bit of swelling in my hands.
Interested if the above suggestions help out.

 

[Fullybuilt]

Is it harmful to take small doses of diuretics to help this. Like say, a very small amount of lasix or aldactone all the time?

 

[Massive G]

Please don't self medicate diuretics or BP meds it's dangerous.
I hate to see boards littered with people adding in more dugs to counter the sides of others.
Juicers are speical cases and for the most part have thickened blood which diuretics and some BP meds can complicate the situation further by reducing blood or fluid volume further=thicker blood=clots strokes and death worse case scenario.
PEACE