Good read on "Extreme stretching"

[rAJJIN]

I was doing some research on Doggcrap style stretching
and came across this article. thought some of you may want to read it as well.
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**broken link removed**

 

[PHIL HERNON]

My opinion

I grew way more after I stopped stretching. The people who wrote this article, were they ever as big as Ronnie Coleman? Dorian Yates? VIctor Richards? Did these men incorporate stretching? In theory, it is a good idea. In reality, it hindered my workouts. Remember now, this is just me. I get a great stretch each repetition, and personally, I think that is enough.

 

[MAINEVENT]

Phil

Not that Im debating what works for ya, but Dorian was a big
believer in stretching and how bout Jay......he's big into it.

But I will state that previous litereture states
stretching does not decrease your chance of injuries.
But we're not talking about injuries so its moot!

Interesting though that it was hindering you!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Dorian

Was this written about him or did you see him do it when he trained?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Factors

I have seen amny instances however where a guy takes a long layoff and never gets back to his original size. Wouldn't this blow the theory? I mean, there are other factors way more improtant than stretching the fascia. I want to see pictures of a small guy on steroids who never lifts weights, but just stretches. By this theory, he will still grow, correct? There are limiting factors yes, but fascia expansion isnt one in my opinion. John Parillo was never a big man, and Dennis Newman was huge before John got ahold of him. I trained with Dennis, and we never stretched. Remember, this is just what I have observed with myself and other bodybuilders, not scientific evidence for or against stretching. The muscles get stretched each rep, and how far that range needs to be is still under significant debate. Curtis Leoffler, a great friend of mine and a genius when it came to training and supplementation, told me to stay in a zone, meaning no full extension or full contraction. I believe Michael Zumpano (another genius) came up with this idea and Curtis Blew up!! To each his own I guess, and stick with whatever you feel comfortable with.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Re: Factors

Curtis Leoffler, a great friend of mine and a genius when it came to training and supplementation, told me to stay in a zone, meaning no full extension or full contraction. I believe Michael Zumpano (another genius) came up with this idea and Curtis Blew up!! To each his own I guess, and stick with whatever you feel comfortable with.

I've heard this also! As most of you know, my shoulders are pretty shot. If I do ANY shoulder exercises using "full" extension and contraction (extension more than contraction), it KILLS my shoulders. I can work them adequately "in the zone"

xcel

 

[rAJJIN]

PHIL

Thanks for your input.
I HIGHLY respect your opinion on any topic when I know your serious. I honestly havnt tried it yet but am-was considering it.
Thanks again,
rAJJ

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Xcel and Rajjin

I need your opinion on this. An orthapedic surgeon told me NEVER to bring the bar on bench press to my chest, but a fist (3-4 inches) away. I have tried it and it is supposed to save the shoulder joint. He also told me that the muscle will grow the same if not more. Do you do this? I have always gone for maximum stretch on the bench, even bringing it to my neck. I am having shoulder problems now so I am going to try it. How do you guys bench? Or do you?

 

[rAJJIN]

`

I may give it a try for a few weeks to a month.
Ill post my opinion as well, Im no Phil but just as he said
differant guys find what works on them. what could it hurt?
My stiff ass needs to stretch more anyhow,lol

also curious?? even though you dont do the extreme weighted stretches do you stretch at all? Or just Lift and not bother
with the stretching between sets? thanks again for your advice.

 

[rAJJIN]

No way

Myself I ALWAYS go to the chest, even touch it a bit.
Eats me up when I see the towel bench or guys doing Partials.
Im sure it has its place but not for me.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Honestly

Anyone who has ever worked out with me knows that I never stretch, before or after. I warm up however, very well with light weights. Then again, I am a Leo Costa (Bulgarian burst) follower.

 

[MAINEVENT]

Phil

About Dorian: He stated it in his books and they show him stretching on his video "Blood and Guts"....I dunno take it for what its worth.

As far as not bring it down to your chest, I have to say textbook and scientific literature say that it will put abnormal stress on your AC joints & glenohumoral joints. But I have to say, everyone's joints, ligaments, tendons, etc. are designed differently. However, if your shoulders are bothering you, why not try it (3-4 inches from chest) and see if it helps.

Just to verify, I do not think Im an expert. However, I am a chiropractor which specializes sports chiro. and rehabilitation (mainly of the spine). I just wanted to pass along this info.

So the moral is, whatever you want a study to say....it will be out there. I've found going by personal experience and treating each person idividually works much better.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Re: Phil

About Dorian: He stated it in his books and they show him stretching on his video "Blood and Guts"....I dunno take it for what its worth.

As far as not bring it down to your chest, I have to say textbook and scientific literature say that it will put abnormal stress on your AC joints & glenohumoral joints. But I have to say, everyone's joints, ligaments, tendons, etc. are designed differently. However, if your shoulders are bothering you, why not try it (3-4 inches from chest) and see if it helps.

Just to verify, I do not think Im an expert. However, I am a chiropractor which specializes sports chiro. and rehabilitation (mainly of the spine). I just wanted to pass along this info.

So the moral is, whatever you want a study to say....it will be out there. I've found going by personal experience and treating each person idividually works much better.

NOW THATS GOOD ADVICE!!!!!

 

[PUMPED]

Re: Xcel and Rajjin

I need your opinion on this. An orthapedic surgeon told me NEVER to bring the bar on bench press to my chest, but a fist (3-4 inches) away. I have tried it and it is supposed to save the shoulder joint. He also told me that the muscle will grow the same if not more. Do you do this? I have always gone for maximum stretch on the bench, even bringing it to my neck. I am having shoulder problems now so I am going to try it. How do you guys bench? Or do you?

Being 6' bench is just out of the question for me. just to risky for my long arms. I have allways though bench was just a ego lift anyway, but that just me

 

[xcelbeyond]

I learned and follow bench press technique as follows:
Use shoulder-width grip on bar
Upon lowering the bar, keep elbows in (a)
Have an extreme arch in back but keep butt on bench (b)
While lowering bar, squeeze lats
Lower the bar to lower part of chest (c)
Use lats to assist in raising bar

(a) Keeping elbows in forces use of more tricep and less shoulder. A "WIDE-GRIP" shortens the distance to chest (and many argue they can use more weight - not me) but it places a LOT of stress onto the shoulder.
(b) I believe this what PL'ers call Spring Technique
(c) Keeping elbows in will naturally have you bring the bar lower on your chest - just try this movement without a bar - you'll see what I mean

Because I've probably worked on my bench press "form" more than any other excercise, it's quite good if I may say so

Since learning and applying this technique, the amount of weight and size of chcest have improved noticeably.

xcel

 

[xcelbeyond]

Also:
Since applying this technique, which was somewhat after my right shoulder reconstructive surgery, the amount of weight I bench has FAAAAR EXCEEDED what I was doing pre-surgery!

xcel

 

[massmonster32]

I dont really bench much any more maybe one set in between incline bench but I always stop about a fist away as well. I go lower with the lighter weights seems to not stress the shoulders as much. I do stretch between sets but not extreme just touch toes couple knee bends like lunges etc just a couple. If I am gona try to stretch the facia some how its gona be with site injects. MM

 

[Swolecows]

If your chest is big enough, going to the chest is not very far. I touch my chest and my elbow is at a nice 90'. I dont feel a stretch at all with the bar on my chest. I know ronnie uses a more short stroke, keeping tension on the muscle with out locking or squeezing. I still like to squeeze on arms, but with compound motions and heavy weight, the body will naturally shift to the joints at full extension/contraction.

 

[Dad]

Depth varies by exercize

One thing I've found works well for me, now that I'm am older guy, is to vary the depth on various chest or pressing exercizes.

I'll still go to the chest on the flat bench, but use more of a powerlifting style where the bar touches my chest below the nipples, and no wide grip stuff. On the incline and overhead press, I only bring the bar down to my chin, NOT to the chest. This seems to be much easier on my shoulders. I also don't quite lockout of any of the pressing stuff - sort of that "stay in the zone" that Phil described.

I should add that because I'm only 5' 7" I don't have real long arms like a taller guy would, so this may be an advantage, too.

 

[Dad]

Mid range

One more quick thought:
I've noticed on the training tapes I've watched of some of the pros - Battle for the Olympia, Flex Wheeler, Melvin Anthony - that most of them seem to neither go for big stretches nor lockout.

What most people think of as "full-range" of motion is NOT what a lot of these guys do. They seem to work the mid 65-80% of the range with non-stop, continuous, motion. This is pretty much the opposite of what I generally see in the gym, where everyone tries fo full stretch, lockout, and the one-rep-at-a-time type cadence.