Heart Failure, 5 days in Hospital...

[swervedriver]

Here is my question: If in fact they have not found a diagnosis for your problem after ruling out all of the usual suspects, then why did they feel that aas use alone was the culprit? I am not being a smartass in any way!! I just would like to know... I mean in other words how did the use of steriods cause the problem when in fact they cannot determine why the heart is not emptying as it is supposed to? What explanation did the cardiologist provide?

 

[littlemack]

Very sorry to hear of your health problems pekkerwood. I really am... I'm not going to pretend to diagnosis the cause of your troubles as I'm not a physician nor have I read your charts.. I just want to say how sorry I am to see a fellow brother of iron having troubles. Best wishes!

 

[jayuk]

I think the wider point is a little different

We are seeing a trend of people coming forward now who have had an experience which, in all honesty will more than have likely been pushed along with the use of Steroids. However, as I always say.....Give a stupid person any drug and expect a stupid reaction. Lack of knowledge kills in this game!! And dont let anyone tell you different!

This is so true for Anabolic Steroids! Anabolic Steroids dont kill, people taking anabolic steroids kill! They abuse them, dont have regular bloods done, dont get MRI's done, and arent in touch with there bodies. I mean these arent smarties that we take They are growth inducing chemicals of which many dnt care which tissue the drug attaches to!

But this wont stop here! Look around! Various boards! You have stupid ill educated people, all under 28 taking over 1.5g of test, 10iu of HGH, 150mcg of IGF and they look like theve either had too many Chicken Curry's and fights with the wifes Foundation; or they simpy cant even get good enough size with what they have taken so far!!

I really dread to think what will happen in the next 5 odd years with all these people getting trigger happy with the new emerging BB related drugs, Peptides, high dose test, high dose chinese HGH.......!!!

Thats it!

J

 

[LATS]

guys. i have said it before.. going up to 1.5 grams is high.. especially for years on end sometimes.. the issue is not gear.. everything is dose related.. baldnazi was doing some pretty high dosages of some fairly "toxic" gear.. it caught up to him.. pekkerwood.. although not as high.. was doing some substantial amounts..
now pekkerwood has a doctor telling him that TEST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.. he has others say it that maybe USE / ABUSE OF HGH COULD HAVE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.. but, in essence.. WE / THEY DONT KNOW.. as i have said earlier, many people have issues with heart related problems at a early age.. could abuse of gear elevate these problems? .. yes.. but, the key word is ABUSE.. to pekkerwoods credit he admits to abuse..
the issue is we need to confront is the issue of irresponsible gear use.. not gear use in general.. we give the media way too much "cannon fodder" to use against us.. i will sound like a broken record but, i have said this before.. we very rarely see on the boards people saying "THIS IS HOW I SCREWED UP"... instead we see "THIS IS WHAT STEROIDS DID TO ME" (not pekkerwoods case .. just in general).. no they didnt.. no one.. and i mean no one would recommend cycles of high dose orals or high dose tren and test at all let alone without breaks ect.. but, we see it all the time.. whne i see some of these cycles posted, i just cringe.. they will get ill or sick and blame gear and the media will have a heyday.. we diffintley lose the media war without the help of the feds..
pekkerwood get better and keep us posted about what the docs say.. think positive..

 

[seymoor77]

Without a doubt steroids contributed - but more importantly than anything - weighing 265 has put a GIGANTIC stress on your heart - I don't care if your're under 10% year round - in terms of overall health is simply is not healthy - if this happened to me I would try to get down to a ripped 200 and have a chance at life - if you don't do anything - well you know the results - good luck.

 

[oldfella]

Hey PW, I am so sorry to hear of your trouble. I am 48 and reading things like this scares me, plain and simple. Now as for the cause, I will add my two cents to this. I neither agree or disagree that AAS use/abuse is the cause. I have had several PM's form a medical practioner that was actually asking me questions about dose, type and possible sides to certain AAS. Now I was asking myself the same questions most of you are askiong now "WTF is a GP asking me for advice on this shit for" So I asked him exactly the same question before I gave him my opinions and take on this matter. I was quite surprised by his reponse. It goes something like this. "AS doctors we do not know near as much about these compounds when used in the doses and manner that BBers use them. Our medical knowledge is restricted to the specific treatment of traumas, accident, burns and growth disorders. We only prescribe the recommended amounts only to treat the specific problem. The dose levels and length of time come no where near the levels you guys are using. It is most likely that you, as BBers have far more knowledge on their actions/reactions in the human body than most medical professionals outside of endocrinologists." So that was his response. It made a lot of sense to me and still does. So as they do not know the direct cause the easy answer is "Blame the steriods". The hard answer is "How about we do some more indepth and extensive testing to find out why and how". I am no doctor, I am just like the rest of us here. I try to be responsible for my use and take full responsibility for what I put into my body. Pekkerwood I hope you can get over this and win the fight bro. I am in there with everyone here in wishing you a safe and complete recovery from this!! We are strong, in body and spirit and we will be by your side. We are your brothers and sisters in iron!! Get well my friend and God Bless!

 

[Putin]

Without a doubt steroids contributed - but more importantly than anything - weighing 265 has put a GIGANTIC stress on your heart - I don't care if your're under 10% year round - in terms of overall health is simply is not healthy - if this happened to me I would try to get down to a ripped 200 and have a chance at life - if you don't do anything - well you know the results - good luck.

You obviously have not read all the posts in this thread. Your statement of "without a doubt" is factly idiotic to say. Especially when the doctors dont even know how his heart muscle weakend or there maybe a lot more to it than that.

There is no POINT to even DRAW a conclution because there is little that even the doctors know about what's going on. So lets stop guessing because we're getting nowhere. This is pointless!

He could have weakened heart muscle from high blood pressure (hypertension) that has been long standing.

 

[Putin]

OMG This is so pointless and retarted. You can see there are plenty of people who live their lives UNHEALTHY and make it past 65yrs old without a heart attack. While at the same time, the healthiest are not. It goes both ways. Everything you eat, the air you breath, all the drugs you take, it all takes a LITTLE but goes a long way.


You can have an enlarged heart from increased workload, if you're a weight lifter or a runner or if you have high blood pressure. Having a slightly enlarged heart isnt going to kill you. I dont get why this thread was even started, it's like PARANOIA is back...ooooohh,...steroids kill.

You're more likely to get killed in a car accident or by a drunk driver than FROM STEROID USE.

 

[BIG DUB]

You obviously have not read all the posts in this thread. Your statement of "without a doubt" is factly idiotic to say. Especially when the doctors dont even know how his heart muscle weakend or there maybe a lot more to it than that.

There is no POINT to even DRAW a conclution because there is little that even the doctors know about what's going on. So lets stop guessing because we're getting nowhere. This is pointless!

He could have weakened heart muscle from high blood pressure (hypertension) that has been long standing.

Same thing I was thinking, Or could be bacterial infection, how is the health of your teeth? Low grade infections such as from gum infections can effect the heart.

 

[Putin]

Same thing I was thinking, Or could be bacterial infection, how is the health of your teeth? Low grade infections such as from gum infections can effect the heart.

Consumption of access of certain vitamins can also affect the heart in a negative way.

 

[IronMike]

...

To generalise, in my non-medical opinion steroids have zero to do with 99.9% of users' health problems and are a zero health risk to nearly anyone. Caveat being that if you are stupid enough to abuse them to a point where your health will be significantly put at risk (excluding those who are deliberately pushing limits but in with as much control as possible) then you're probably the same type of person who was going to find excess control issues with alcohol, substances, speed behind the wheel etc etc. You can't stop some people risking their own selves by pushing ANYTHING too far. For fuck's sake, I know people that have had problems from taking too many paracetamol over the years, or have developed anxiety disorders by pushing their careers too far, or have fucked their lives (or died) through drink and drug abuse.

A significant proportion of men, especially those over 30, will experience heart problems, cancer, blood pressure or other health issues. Is the proportion of men using steroids who also suffer health issues any higher? I bet not and if there is statistical data to prove me wrong, so be I'll believe it when I see it. Until then every time a bodybuilder has a health problem I'd prefer to see it blamed on the biggest causal risk factors - being alive, male, over 30 etc - than on an unfounded and probably very low risk factor, steroids.

Steroids contribute to a very very small proportion of health problems in the male population, and put in context with alcohol, drugs, poor diet, poor lifestyle, stress, family breakdowns, relationship issues, mental health, freak accidents of nature and so on they are an insignificant risk to anyone sensible.

IronMike

 

[Jarconis]

whats that saying, eat right, excercise daily, die anyway.

 

[seymoor77]

I'd be willing to bet my life if he never took juice and did not weigh 265 that this would not happen - and I believe he said he was taking like a gram a week or more for like a decade now - come on - maybe he has some sort of predisposition but this shit certainly aggravated the situation at the least - some people will tell themselves their wife is not cheating on them when she carries condoms in her pockets because it's what they want to believe.

 

[bigheinz]

Sorry to hear about your big problem.
I hope you get strong soon.

 

[joeshow5]

OMG This is so pointless and retarted. You can see there are plenty of people who live their lives UNHEALTHY and make it past 65yrs old without a heart attack. While at the same time, the healthiest are not. It goes both ways. Everything you eat, the air you breath, all the drugs you take, it all takes a LITTLE but goes a long way.


You can have an enlarged heart from increased workload, if you're a weight lifter or a runner or if you have high blood pressure. Having a slightly enlarged heart isnt going to kill you. I dont get why this thread was even started, it's like PARANOIA is back...ooooohh,...steroids kill.

You're more likely to get killed in a car accident or by a drunk driver than FROM STEROID USE.

this thread was started so people have a place to debate this OTHER than in the "heart failure, 5 days in the hospital" thread. That thread looked to have been started out of a need help and support. I just thought it would be better to discuss this outside of his thread. No need to be defensive, I wasn't trying to start problems.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

I had a 17 year old student die working cattle.

Slender, mild mannered, quiet, young, no drugs or alcohol. Walking around with his dad and he simply died. Heart failure.

I dont know if we can blame this on hormone use.

I am sorry you are sick Pekkerwood.

 

[Putin]

I'd be willing to bet my life if he never took juice and did not weigh 265 that this would not happen - and I believe he said he was taking like a gram a week or more for like a decade now - come on - maybe he has some sort of predisposition but this shit certainly aggravated the situation at the least - some people will tell themselves their wife is not cheating on them when she carries condoms in her pockets because it's what they want to believe.

Guess you're dead. WITHOUT knowing his history or anything else about the guy but that he took steroids....you're assuming based on that that it was steroids that did it? You're not very smart. Oh yeah, and you're life is over, you're dead.

 

[Putin]

To generalise, in my non-medical opinion steroids have zero to do with 99.9% of users' health problems and are a zero health risk to nearly anyone. Caveat being that if you are stupid enough to abuse them to a point where your health will be significantly put at risk (excluding those who are deliberately pushing limits but in with as much control as possible) then you're probably the same type of person who was going to find excess control issues with alcohol, substances, speed behind the wheel etc etc. You can't stop some people risking their own selves by pushing ANYTHING too far. For fuck's sake, I know people that have had problems from taking too many paracetamol over the years, or have developed anxiety disorders by pushing their careers too far, or have fucked their lives (or died) through drink and drug abuse.

A significant proportion of men, especially those over 30, will experience heart problems, cancer, blood pressure or other health issues. Is the proportion of men using steroids who also suffer health issues any higher? I bet not and if there is statistical data to prove me wrong, so be I'll believe it when I see it. Until then every time a bodybuilder has a health problem I'd prefer to see it blamed on the biggest causal risk factors - being alive, male, over 30 etc - than on an unfounded and probably very low risk factor, steroids.

Steroids contribute to a very very small proportion of health problems in the male population, and put in context with alcohol, drugs, poor diet, poor lifestyle, stress, family breakdowns, relationship issues, mental health, freak accidents of nature and so on they are an insignificant risk to anyone sensible.

IronMike

You get a cookie. You're absolutely on the dime. For example, if a bodybuilder dies, everyone jumps to conclusion that it was Steroids. Not see that it could have been: genetic predisposition, excess vitamins, rec drug abuse, alcohol abuse, shitty lifestyle, etc. People are soooooo CLOSE MINDED.

 

[Goldberg]

Putin, can you please elaborate alittle on what you mean about having excess vitamins.
I haven't heard this before, and would like to know more.

 

[Moen]

The problem in my opinion is that a lot of bodybuilders who do steroids, and this is a direct extension of what mike said, are abusers & somewhat or completely fucked up in the head to begin with.

Most of the time they do not just do steroids, they will do (a lot) of other drugs as well because of their need for highs

If you want visible proof: I just watched an episode of 'MD after dark' or something like that from an Arnold classic afterparty.

I saw John Romano and Mike Morris CLEARLY on something, my guess being either mdma or ampethamines, at the party.

These are then just two guys who did (a lot) of steroids and when they are at a party, HEY WHY NOT POP SOME PILLS TO HAVE SOME MORE FUN ?

I bet when they wake up the next day, fuck what a headache, let's at least pop some painkillers before we take our pre-workout ephedrine