• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
worldofroids
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
mckee
PHARMAHGH1
Bruce Labs Store banner
gd
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
roids-210x65-48kb-1
granabolic123
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
PM-Ace-Labs
advertise1
kinglab
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Heart Failure - Road to Recovery

[email protected]

Active member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
550
Hello all,
so after talking quite a bit to @maldorf who also shared his story about his heart attack etc. he mentioned that it would be a good idea if i also did
something similarely.
So here I am starting my thread.
First a bit in general about me:
- 31 years old. Started working out in Octobre 2009. I was naturally the guy you would call "skinny fat", i had zero muscles but was quite chubby. @20 years old, ive looked like
a skinny fat 13year old. I was weighting 68kg @ 172cm but i had tons of fat, dont ask me how this is even possible..
- started some prohormone shit like 4-androstendiol in 2014. In 2015, ive took a course of epistane for 8 weeks and later this year halodrol for 8 weeks. Moderate dosages.
Heart issues run in my fathers side of the family and during 2015, ive discovered that i have high blood pressure. During this time, i also had a appointment at my cardiologist and EF was measured @ something like 49%.
in 2017, ive decided to check my test values after being off for half a year (i did pct for the epi and the halo) and it was pretty low, around 140 on a range from 340 to 950
It took around 3 andrologist visits and 1 endrocrinologist appointsments to get on trt and ive decided for gel trt. THis put me at a value of arund 600
Follow up appointments at my cardiologist showed EF back up to around 55%.
in spring 2020, ive added HGH to my trt at 2x 1,5iu daily. Everything was great.
in December 2020, ive decided to blast (which was stupid). I took 100mg T prop daily and gradually incrased my HGH up to 12ius daily (which was stupid again)
in March 2021, I had heart issues (bad breathing, easy out of breath et..) and went to my cardiologist. He found out EF was back down below 40% (around 38%).
Ive decided to REDUCE (again, stupid) my cycle to 50mg test p EOD, 50mg Primo E EOD and 3 IUs HGH.
It went way better but, being stupid and ive thought the culprit was the high test dosage, ive increased the HGH back to 6iu.
Problems arised again.
on the 5th May during the night, ive woke up and could absolutely not breath lying down. I made sounds breathing (water in lungs) and decided i have to go to hospital. I could not even go up 5 steps of stairs then without taking a break.
in the Hospital, they first thought i have pneumonia and gave me 2 days high-dosed antibiotics. Ive told them it is my heart and i need diuretics ASAP but they did not really care. I couldnt lie down, couldnt breath and was miserable.
on Friday the 7th ive finally got an ECHO (and you cant believe how hard it was simply lying down and putting my hand behind my head, it was harder than a leg workout 2 weeks prior) and the diagnosis is following (according to my letter)
- heart insufficiency with highly restricted EF (around 16%)
- Non-Compaction Cardiomyopathy (?) --> they assume but couldnt say 100% sure
- drastic mitral insufficiency ( vena contracta 5mm) --> according to my research, this is not drastic but more like moderate but i guess they know better=
- intense pulmonary arterial hypertension (85mmHg)
some measurements: septum 12mm, LVEDD 71mm, LVESD 63mm, heart wall 14mm, Aorta 28mm, LA 54mm
some blood values at my arrival: Quick INR 1,37, D-Dimere 0,73, CRP 0,41, Troponin I 69,10pg/ml, NT-ProBNP 833, TSH 0,00, FT3 3,42 (3,4 - 6,1), FT4 10,27 (9,8-18,8)

I was sent home on tuesday 11th with a Lifevest (external defibrillator). Follow up Blood work on 26th May. Follow up ECHO on 11.06.
if no improvement --> heart catether on 14.06. If then no improvement 8 weeks later implanted defibrillator.

I really hope that this is an acute heart failure. In March I had an infection and didnt recover long enough. Maybe it is something like a myocarditis. Also, the onset of the symptoms was pretty fast (i am talking i could train on monday intensely and on tuesday evening, i was not even able to walk upstairs..)

right now:
- situation improving daily. After getting out of hospital, ive started low impact walks on the outside as long as the weather allowed me to.
Ive started with 2500 steps daily and right now, i am at between 10 and 12k daily.
- no weightlifting. I stretch a bit 1-2 times a week and use my massage gun.
Until yesterday, i was off everything. After talking to my cardiologist on the phone, he recommended to get back on Gel trt at half the dosage ive used before and gradually increase to my full dosage over a week (not easy with the gel)
- coffee is allowed, no other stimulants
- I am trying to lose a good amount of weight now. Ive went to hospital with 102kg @ 172cm and right now i am down to 96. Trying to get down to around 88 in the first step.
- Doing IF (18/6). Mainly doing 2 larger meals a day. 250g protein, 125g carbs, 40g fats. I take a maximum of 3,5g sodium daily. I know kcals are very low for my body weight but i really NEED to drop it down..
- medication:
16mg candesartan daily, should be gradually increased to 24mg
15mg torasemid (diuretic)
25mg epleronone
125µ T4/12,5µ T3
-supplement stack:
8g D-Ribose + 2g creatine + 2g Taurine x3 Daily
400mg Kaneka Ubiquinol
1300mg Curcumin bcm95
100mg pycnogenol
Black garlic, Arjuna, Bromelain, VitD3, Zinc, Magnesium, Green tea extract,...

I will update regularely
 

Bio

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Registered
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
6,629
Very sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope you recover well and enjoy a long life! I don't know if you have a wife and kids. If you do, they don't care if you have less muscle, they just care that you're around to be a good husband and father! Enjoy those gifts in your life and the pure love of lifting weights when you can!!
 

Dugbet

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,376
This is surprising, you are too young and no much gear use to have such serious health problems.

How was your diet and your body fat % all that time?

I guess your genetics are totally unfavorable. Good luck
 

[email protected]

Active member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
550
thanks all
@Dugbet: yes, my genetics for heart health are not really good. Also, if the "maybe diagnosis" Non-compaction cardiomyophaty is correct then this is a genetic issue.
I almost never cheated on my diet. Clean foods. Body fat between 8% and 16% over the year usually
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
24,709
Continue with your plan, sounds good. You were talking about using some PED s after this is all over, and I hope you have changed your mind about that now. It's not worth the risk. Just use that gel trt and be happy with that. No other steroids or hgh.

I sure hope you recover. Sounds like you had this happen one other time and you recovered. You may not get a 3rd chance.

When you have cardiomyopathy, a lot ofblood is left in the ventricles after a contraction and it can form clots. If you have arrhythmias, they can make the risk even higher. A clot could form and get pumped to your lungs (right ventricle) or to your brain ( left ventricle). That would be very bad indeed.

Do they have you on any kind of anticoagulation like coumadin or Eliquis?
 

[email protected]

Active member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
550
I dont ever plan to hop on gear again apart from stuff i discuss with my cardiologist.
I said in my last post my WISH would be to add 1,5iu HGH daily for anti-aging purposes but only if my cardiologist would say it is okay or we try and check echo every 2 weeks or whatever. I guess i got misunderstood, i will not add stuff on my own again apart from natural supplements (i wont ask him if creatine is okay..)

No, i do not have any anticoagulation agents right now. They have told me due to my HCT and HB which are always on the lower end (even back when i blasted the test P) i do not need them. Do you think they would be helpful?
my doc prescribed stuff is this
- medication:
16mg candesartan daily, should be gradually increased to 24mg
15mg torasemid (diuretic)
25mg epleronone
125µ T4/12,5µ T3
+ the gel

Sometimes i feel like the docs are always a bit "rushed" and have no time for patients.
They gave me the lifevest and then it was like "byebye, see you in 4 weeks, take it slow during that time".
No specific information about activity level, no information about nutrition/water, nothing... which is a bit disappointing
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
24,709
I dont ever plan to hop on gear again apart from stuff i discuss with my cardiologist.
I said in my last post my WISH would be to add 1,5iu HGH daily for anti-aging purposes but only if my cardiologist would say it is okay or we try and check echo every 2 weeks or whatever. I guess i got misunderstood, i will not add stuff on my own again apart from natural supplements (i wont ask him if creatine is okay..)

No, i do not have any anticoagulation agents right now. They have told me due to my HCT and HB which are always on the lower end (even back when i blasted the test P) i do not need them. Do you think they would be helpful?
my doc prescribed stuff is this
- medication:
16mg candesartan daily, should be gradually increased to 24mg
15mg torasemid (diuretic)
25mg epleronone
125µ T4/12,5µ T3
+ the gel

Sometimes i feel like the docs are always a bit "rushed" and have no time for patients.
They gave me the lifevest and then it was like "byebye, see you in 4 weeks, take it slow during that time".
No specific information about activity level, no information about nutrition/water, nothing... which is a bit disappointing
Im no healthcare professional, so not sure about the anticoagulant. I just know that if you have an arrhythmia like a fib or v tach that your chances of a clot are higher and they usually put you on an anticoagulant. Im assuming having a low EF might be dangerous too because most of the blood in the ventricle ends up not being pushed out of the heart with each beat. When I had cardiomyopathy with an EF of 35% they did not put me on one. It sounds like they only prescribe them if you have an arrhythmia. Put your trust in them. You could always call the doctor's nurse and ask about it. Thats what I do. Most of them are knowledgeable, and will ask the doctor if they dont know the answer. Some folks take just a baby aspirin a day too, but dont do anything without approval from your cardiologist.
 

Biggerp73

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
1,446
Hello all,
so after talking quite a bit to @maldorf who also shared his story about his heart attack etc. he mentioned that it would be a good idea if i also did
something similarely.
So here I am starting my thread.
First a bit in general about me:
- 31 years old. Started working out in Octobre 2009. I was naturally the guy you would call "skinny fat", i had zero muscles but was quite chubby. @20 years old, ive looked like
a skinny fat 13year old. I was weighting 68kg @ 172cm but i had tons of fat, dont ask me how this is even possible..
- started some prohormone shit like 4-androstendiol in 2014. In 2015, ive took a course of epistane for 8 weeks and later this year halodrol for 8 weeks. Moderate dosages.
Heart issues run in my fathers side of the family and during 2015, ive discovered that i have high blood pressure. During this time, i also had a appointment at my cardiologist and EF was measured @ something like 49%.
in 2017, ive decided to check my test values after being off for half a year (i did pct for the epi and the halo) and it was pretty low, around 140 on a range from 340 to 950
It took around 3 andrologist visits and 1 endrocrinologist appointsments to get on trt and ive decided for gel trt. THis put me at a value of arund 600
Follow up appointments at my cardiologist showed EF back up to around 55%.
in spring 2020, ive added HGH to my trt at 2x 1,5iu daily. Everything was great.
in December 2020, ive decided to blast (which was stupid). I took 100mg T prop daily and gradually incrased my HGH up to 12ius daily (which was stupid again)
in March 2021, I had heart issues (bad breathing, easy out of breath et..) and went to my cardiologist. He found out EF was back down below 40% (around 38%).
Ive decided to REDUCE (again, stupid) my cycle to 50mg test p EOD, 50mg Primo E EOD and 3 IUs HGH.
It went way better but, being stupid and ive thought the culprit was the high test dosage, ive increased the HGH back to 6iu.
Problems arised again.
on the 5th May during the night, ive woke up and could absolutely not breath lying down. I made sounds breathing (water in lungs) and decided i have to go to hospital. I could not even go up 5 steps of stairs then without taking a break.
in the Hospital, they first thought i have pneumonia and gave me 2 days high-dosed antibiotics. Ive told them it is my heart and i need diuretics ASAP but they did not really care. I couldnt lie down, couldnt breath and was miserable.
on Friday the 7th ive finally got an ECHO (and you cant believe how hard it was simply lying down and putting my hand behind my head, it was harder than a leg workout 2 weeks prior) and the diagnosis is following (according to my letter)
- heart insufficiency with highly restricted EF (around 16%)
- Non-Compaction Cardiomyopathy (?) --> they assume but couldnt say 100% sure
- drastic mitral insufficiency ( vena contracta 5mm) --> according to my research, this is not drastic but more like moderate but i guess they know better=
- intense pulmonary arterial hypertension (85mmHg)
some measurements: septum 12mm, LVEDD 71mm, LVESD 63mm, heart wall 14mm, Aorta 28mm, LA 54mm
some blood values at my arrival: Quick INR 1,37, D-Dimere 0,73, CRP 0,41, Troponin I 69,10pg/ml, NT-ProBNP 833, TSH 0,00, FT3 3,42 (3,4 - 6,1), FT4 10,27 (9,8-18,8)

I was sent home on tuesday 11th with a Lifevest (external defibrillator). Follow up Blood work on 26th May. Follow up ECHO on 11.06.
if no improvement --> heart catether on 14.06. If then no improvement 8 weeks later implanted defibrillator.

I really hope that this is an acute heart failure. In March I had an infection and didnt recover long enough. Maybe it is something like a myocarditis. Also, the onset of the symptoms was pretty fast (i am talking i could train on monday intensely and on tuesday evening, i was not even able to walk upstairs..)

right now:
- situation improving daily. After getting out of hospital, ive started low impact walks on the outside as long as the weather allowed me to.
Ive started with 2500 steps daily and right now, i am at between 10 and 12k daily.
- no weightlifting. I stretch a bit 1-2 times a week and use my massage gun.
Until yesterday, i was off everything. After talking to my cardiologist on the phone, he recommended to get back on Gel trt at half the dosage ive used before and gradually increase to my full dosage over a week (not easy with the gel)
- coffee is allowed, no other stimulants
- I am trying to lose a good amount of weight now. Ive went to hospital with 102kg @ 172cm and right now i am down to 96. Trying to get down to around 88 in the first step.
- Doing IF (18/6). Mainly doing 2 larger meals a day. 250g protein, 125g carbs, 40g fats. I take a maximum of 3,5g sodium daily. I know kcals are very low for my body weight but i really NEED to drop it down..
- medication:
16mg candesartan daily, should be gradually increased to 24mg
15mg torasemid (diuretic)
25mg epleronone
125µ T4/12,5µ T3
-supplement stack:
8g D-Ribose + 2g creatine + 2g Taurine x3 Daily
400mg Kaneka Ubiquinol
1300mg Curcumin bcm95
100mg pycnogenol
Black garlic, Arjuna, Bromelain, VitD3, Zinc, Magnesium, Green tea extract,...

I will update regularely
Very similar to me.

I'm 31 (almost 32). I started lifting in 2005 as a fat kid. Lost a ton of weight and got skinny, then started juicing in 2009. Stayed on AAS until 2014. Then in February 2019 I got back on AAS to get in shape for my 30th birthday. Starting August 2019 I began high dose HGH. By October I was using at least 15iu per day, but sometimes as much as 45iu per day. Went to the hospital in November with trouble breathing, they thought I had pneumonia and kept me on antibiotics for a week. Got out of the hospital and took a few weeks off the GH for money reasons. Then, in December, went back on the GH @ 30iu per day. The day after Christmas I went to the hospital with the same symptoms as November, but was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and an EF of around 20%. The doctor gave me losartan, carvedilol, and lasix. I messaged Dante and he advised apigenin, curcumin, ubiquinol, and pycnogenol. I've been using those since then. Although I dropped the lasix after a couple weeks. I haven't had my EF rechecked but my bpm and blood pressure are consistently low now. I definitely think the primary cause was the GH.
 

[email protected]

Active member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2017
Messages
550
true, sounds similar.
how is your situation now? how do you feel?
Do you workout at the moment? and I assume you are also clean right now?
yeah, my hr and esp bpm are very low too right now but this is due to the medications i am on. Blood pressure was 112/68 today.
Will you have follow up appointments?
 

Bleed

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
1,761
Do you remember what dosage of apigenin and pycnogenol dante recommended?

In your case, I think its safe to assume that those massive doses of gh are what did it to you. Most guys who have issues have touched some AAS but I dont remember anyone here hitting the gh as hard as you did. I cant imagine even someone with great heart health genetics would fare well on those doses.

When are you getting your EF checked again? How are you feeling these days? How about your workouts?

Very similar to me.

I'm 31 (almost 32). I started lifting in 2005 as a fat kid. Lost a ton of weight and got skinny, then started juicing in 2009. Stayed on AAS until 2014. Then in February 2019 I got back on AAS to get in shape for my 30th birthday. Starting August 2019 I began high dose HGH. By October I was using at least 15iu per day, but sometimes as much as 45iu per day. Went to the hospital in November with trouble breathing, they thought I had pneumonia and kept me on antibiotics for a week. Got out of the hospital and took a few weeks off the GH for money reasons. Then, in December, went back on the GH @ 30iu per day. The day after Christmas I went to the hospital with the same symptoms as November, but was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and an EF of around 20%. The doctor gave me losartan, carvedilol, and lasix. I messaged Dante and he advised apigenin, curcumin, ubiquinol, and pycnogenol. I've been using those since then. Although I dropped the lasix after a couple weeks. I haven't had my EF rechecked but my bpm and blood pressure are consistently low now. I definitely think the primary cause was the GH.
 

TheOtherOne55

Sponsor Rep
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
3,862
Very similar to me.

I'm 31 (almost 32). I started lifting in 2005 as a fat kid. Lost a ton of weight and got skinny, then started juicing in 2009. Stayed on AAS until 2014. Then in February 2019 I got back on AAS to get in shape for my 30th birthday. Starting August 2019 I began high dose HGH. By October I was using at least 15iu per day, but sometimes as much as 45iu per day. Went to the hospital in November with trouble breathing, they thought I had pneumonia and kept me on antibiotics for a week. Got out of the hospital and took a few weeks off the GH for money reasons. Then, in December, went back on the GH @ 30iu per day. The day after Christmas I went to the hospital with the same symptoms as November, but was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and an EF of around 20%. The doctor gave me losartan, carvedilol, and lasix. I messaged Dante and he advised apigenin, curcumin, ubiquinol, and pycnogenol. I've been using those since then. Although I dropped the lasix after a couple weeks. I haven't had my EF rechecked but my bpm and blood pressure are consistently low now. I definitely think the primary cause was the GH.
Real question and not trying to be a dick, just generally curious: what did you possibly think 30-45iu of GH was going to do you for you? You arent a pro BBer nor do I remember you ever talking about competitions before—so what was your thought process there?
 

Bleed

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
1,761
When I asked him before he mentioned how cheap he got it for and the idea at the time was "As much as you can afford" which is what he decided to take.

Btw, thats not a direct quote but the gist of the conversation. He can correct me if im wrong.

Real question and not trying to be a dick, just generally curious: what did you possibly think 30-45iu of GH was going to do you for you? You arent a pro BBer nor do I remember you ever talking about competitions before—so what was your thought process there?
 

Mr. Malice

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
102
Real question and not trying to be a dick, just generally curious: what did you possibly think 30-45iu of GH was going to do you for you? You arent a pro BBer nor do I remember you ever talking about competitions before—so what was your thought process there?

That whole ‘use as much GH as you can afford’ - a supposed quote of Jay Cutler

I feel like I distinctly remember him talking about going to the doctor every two weeks during a prep for the Olympia

I imagine most people who follow the GH advice aren’t finding themselves being so proactive on their health markers
 

Biggerp73

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
1,446
true, sounds similar.
how is your situation now? how do you feel?
Do you workout at the moment? and I assume you are also clean right now?
yeah, my hr and esp bpm are very low too right now but this is due to the medications i am on. Blood pressure was 112/68 today.
Will you have follow up appointments?
Fortunately my problem was acute. In fact one of the reasons I stopped the lasix after a few weeks is I started having bouts of super low blood pressure and it was pretty scary. I did try to keep going on low doses of AAS with zero GH for a while, but eventually I decided to just go completely natural so that's where I am at now. I feel perfectly fine and healthy and I am looking forward to getting my EF checked again to see what it looks like. Appointments are "as needed"
Do you remember what dosage of apigenin and pycnogenol dante recommended?

In your case, I think its safe to assume that those massive doses of gh are what did it to you. Most guys who have issues have touched some AAS but I dont remember anyone here hitting the gh as hard as you did. I cant imagine even someone with great heart health genetics would fare well on those doses.

When are you getting your EF checked again? How are you feeling these days? How about your workouts?
Yeah, it was definitely the GH. Apigenin was 200mg twice per day and pycnogenol was 100mg twice per day. I feel great. I'm not sure when I'm getting the EF rechecked. I'm basically just being lazy about it at this point because I could call my doctor and ask him to set it up to have it rechecked but I just haven't.
Real question and not trying to be a dick, just generally curious: what did you possibly think 30-45iu of GH was going to do you for you? You arent a pro BBer nor do I remember you ever talking about competitions before—so what was your thought process there?
Yeah so there were a few different things going on

(1) I wasn't competing, but my plan was to compete eventually, and I had no intention of getting beaten at a local show. I wanted to compete, but only with the kind of physique that was absolutely no doubt stage worthy (as in, look like a legit pro).

(2) I generally responded well to GH, and as a guy prone to put fat on easily, injecting it multiple times a day was a very easy way to keep fat off while eating for gains.

(3) I read a study online where the mg/of dosage of GH given to certain patients was equivalent to around 50iu/day for a guy at my size, so I figured it was safe, and that if GH was causing any organ growth, I would notice my penis growing too, and that would both be a signal to stop using GH and also a nice side benefit. I was wrong about the relevance of study, and about the penis growth. 😁

(4) I never liked leaving a reconditioned vial of GH in the fridge. Completely unscientific superstition, but I just felt like it would degrade. So I never did anything except inject an entire vial at once. Which meant when I was focusing on preventing fat gain and therefore wanted several doses per day, I was injecting several vials per day.

(5) I had a fridge full of dozens of kits
 

Staff online

  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub

Forum statistics

Total page views
513,344,681
Threads
126,146
Messages
2,473,303
Members
156,537
Latest member
Beachwood
Top