Heart health and hdl

[Black Beard]

Cardio is king, there is probably no single other thing with a stronger protective effects against heart disease.

 

[MethodAir]

Are you on 500 mg test per week year round or just a cycle?

Low HDL intermittently (Cycling) is not dangerous, but chronic/long-term may have a negative effect on endothelial health.

Skewed lipids may be associated with decreased vasodilation, but where is the objective data which proves that skewed lipid profiles cause coronary artery lesions?

Coronary artery disease always develops faster when coronary artery lesions are present.

But many people with normal blood pressure, low hdls and no coronary lesions, never develop severe coronary artery disease.

 

[nothuman]

What ratio from cholesterol do we want to pay attention to again?

Triglycerides:HDL is a big one

 

[Black Beard]

Skewed lipids may be associated with decreased vasodilation, but where is the objective data which proves that skewed lipid profiles cause coronary artery lesions?

Coronary artery disease always develops faster when coronary artery lesions are present.

But many people with normal blood pressure, low hdls and no coronary lesions, never develop severe coronary artery disease.

This is from this year, so it's current. Dated 1/3/2019:

"Furthermore, we describe many beneficial properties of HDL that antagonize atherosclerosis and how HDL dysfunction may promote cardiometabolic disease."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK343489/


HDL has anti-atherogenic properties.


A wise man once said, always be careful with the word always.

 

[MethodAir]

This is from this year, so it's current. Dated 1/3/2019:

"Furthermore, we describe many beneficial properties of HDL that antagonize atherosclerosis and how HDL dysfunction may promote cardiometabolic disease."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK343489/


HDL has anti-atherogenic properties.


A wise man once said, always be careful with the word always.

The article supports the fact that lesioned coronary tissue is ALWAYS more susceptible to coronary artery disease development. It does not however, prove your idea that skewed lipid profiles cause the onset of these very coronary lesions.

 

[Black Beard]

The article supports the fact that lesioned coronary tissue is ALWAYS more susceptible to coronary artery disease development. It does not however, prove your idea that skewed lipid profiles cause the onset of these very coronary lesions.

No offense brother, you're hopeless. I don't even know what you are arguing about anymore, i'm just sharing information.

 

[MethodAir]

No offense brother, you're hopeless. I don't even know what you are arguing about anymore, i'm just sharing information.

You're sharing misinformation and you got exposed accordingly. You had an opportunity to respond w facts, but given your lack thereof, predictably resorted to trolling.

 

[old timer]

What ratio from cholesterol do we want to pay attention to again?

I can't seem to keep up with what's considered pertinent or valid and what's not. BUT not too long ago I understood the Total/HDL was one of if not the best predictor of a cardiovascular event with a ratio of 5 being average and 3.4 is half the average risk and 9.6 is 2X the average risk.

With that noted, extremely high HDL has been shown to INCREASE your chance of all-cause mortality (https://www.healio.com/primary-care...sterol-levels-linked-to-excessive-mortality): Both extreme high and low concentrations of HDL were associated with high all-cause mortality. Men with extremely high and very high HDL concentrations had a 106% and 36%, respectively, higher mortality rate than those with normal concentrations.

 

[Black Beard]

You're sharing misinformation and you got exposed accordingly. You had an opportunity to respond w facts, but given your lack thereof, predictably resorted to trolling.

You are literally insane. Seriously.

 

[MethodAir]

You are literally insane. Seriously.

..

 

[whacked]

I think a lot of it is horeshit drummed up by big pharma. Is it any coincidence that cholesterol meds are the most prescribed med in the world? $$$$

IMHO controlling systemic inflammation and preserving insulin sensitivity by and in large ....is everting.

Perhaps a grossly simplified overstatement but from everything I read, these are always at the root or involved of so many diseases.

Mitigation of stress, exercising, eradicating processed foods and drinks and shit sugars will always result in a healthier heart and CV systems and thus lowered risk of CVD. If anti-inflammatory supplements (curcumin etc) and healthy lipids are added (fish/krill and EVOO etc)...even more of a chance of lowering risk.

That said, learning WHAT causes increases in inflammation for you the individual is your own journey and need for discovery and that includes type of diet as well.

I can't seem to keep up with what's considered pertinent or valid and what's not. BUT not too long ago I understood the Total/HDL was one of if not the best predictor of a cardiovascular event with a ratio of 5 being average and 3.4 is half the average risk and 9.6 is 2X the average risk.

With that noted, extremely high HDL has been shown to INCREASE your chance of all-cause mortality (https://www.healio.com/primary-care...sterol-levels-linked-to-excessive-mortality): Both extreme high and low concentrations of HDL were associated with high all-cause mortality. Men with extremely high and very high HDL concentrations had a 106% and 36%, respectively, higher mortality rate than those with normal concentrations.

 

[Big A]

Create problem and label lipoproteins "good and bad" (cholesterol phobia).

Create solution (Statins/PCSK9i/RNAi-[AKCEA-APO(a)-LRx]).

So, if HDL turns rouge loosing it's hypothesized function--capability to facilitate RCT/antioxidant capacity. Do we label it "bad" now that it's dysfunctional

And yet everyone glazed right by your post..

 

[Black Beard]

And yet everyone glazed right by your post..

Stewie is the GOAT

I think a lot of it is horeshit drummed up by big pharma. Is it any coincidence that cholesterol meds are the most prescribed med in the world? $$$$

IMHO controlling systemic inflammation and preserving insulin sensitivity by and in large ....is everting.

Perhaps a grossly simplified overstatement but from everything I read, these are always at the root or involved of so many diseases.

Mitigation of stress, exercising, eradicating processed foods and drinks and shit sugars will always result in a healthier heart and CV systems and thus lowered risk of CVD. If anti-inflammatory supplements (curcumin etc) and healthy lipids are added (fish/krill and EVOO etc)...even more of a chance of lowering risk.

That said, learning WHAT causes increases in inflammation for you the individual is your own journey and need for discovery and that includes type of diet as well.

Agree x 1000

 

[MethodAir]

Stewie:

Create problem and label lipoproteins "good and bad" (cholesterol phobia).

Create solution (Statins/PCSK9i/RNAi-[AKCEA-APO(a)-LRx]).

So, if HDL turns rouge loosing it's hypothesized function--capability to facilitate RCT/antioxidant capacity. Do we label it "bad" now that it's dysfunctional ��

Big A:

And yet everyone glazed right by your post..

I read Stewie's post, and thus noted that misinformed people like Black Beard are effectively tools for big pharma, by perpetuating the cholesterol myth.

This is famously challenged by the cardiac surgeon Dr. Lundell, who stated with respect to the onset of coronary lesions, due to mechanical stress and inflammation (eg high blood sugar):

"Take a moment to visualize rubbing a stiff brush repeatedly over soft skin until it becomes quite red and nearly bleeding. you kept this up several times a day, every day for five years. If you could tolerate this painful brushing, you would have a bleeding, swollen infected area that became worse with each repeated injury. This is a good way to visualize the inflammatory process that could be going on in your body right now.

What are the biggest culprits of chronic inflammation? Quite simply, they are the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods.
"

If high levels of plaque floating around in the circulatory system merely caused blocked arteries, then you would expect all cardiac surfaces to become blocked, including heart valves. It's not the case. Heart valves typically become prematurely atherosclerotic only after lesions form on them (because of genetic factors, inflammation and mechanical stress etc).

 

[Black Beard]

Stewie:


Big A:

I read Stewie's post, and thus noted that misinformed people like Black Beard are effectively tools for big pharma, by perpetuating the cholesterol myth.

This is famously challenged by the cardiac surgeon Dr. Lundell, who stated with respect to the onset of coronary lesions, due to mechanical stress and inflammation (eg high blood sugar):

"Take a moment to visualize rubbing a stiff brush repeatedly over soft skin until it becomes quite red and nearly bleeding. you kept this up several times a day, every day for five years. If you could tolerate this painful brushing, you would have a bleeding, swollen infected area that became worse with each repeated injury. This is a good way to visualize the inflammatory process that could be going on in your body right now.

What are the biggest culprits of chronic inflammation? Quite simply, they are the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods.
"

If high levels of plaque floating around in the circulatory system merely caused blocked arteries, then you would expect all cardiac surfaces to become blocked, including heart valves. It's not the case. Heart valves typically become prematurely atherosclerotic only after lesions form on them (because of genetic factors, inflammation and mechanical stress etc).

Dude, what's your problem with me? There is zero misinformation coming from me anywhere on any thread. I'm actually against statin use. You're a nutcase brother.

 

[MethodAir]

Dude, what's your problem with me? There is zero misinformation coming from me anywhere on any thread. I'm actually against statin use. You're a nutcase brother.

Let's remind everybody that you attempted to make similar asinine claims, when you suggested that steroids cause the onset of coronary artery lesions, and said that cardiac changes cannot be seen in bloodwork:

Black Beard:

A lot of the nasty stuff that steroids can cause or worsen cannot be seen in blood work. Most of it actually (Arterial plaque/calcification, heart structural changes, ejection fraction, stenosis/narrowing, rhythm abnormalities, etc)

Bloodwork can show you acute liver stress/toxicity, suboptimal lipid levels, excessive erythrocytosis (high hct/hgb), and kidney function. That's about it.

As mynameisjeff noted, you are probably a nurse or nursing assistant at best, not the high level 'clinician' you purport to be.

 

[Black Beard]

Let's remind everybody that you attempted to make similar asinine claims, when you suggested that steroids cause the onset of coronary artery lesions, and said that cardiac changes are not reflected in bloodwork:

Black Beard:



As mynameisjeff noted, you are probably a nurse or nursing assistant at best, not the high level 'clinician' you purport to be.

Steroids can cause/increase plaque build up, heart structure changes, etc when abused and in susceptible people. Are you high?


Again, what's with the personal attacks? I must have hit a nerve at some point. You're just harassing me and not contributing to the conversation claiming i spread misinformation when i back everything up with data/science and logic.

 

[MethodAir]

Steroids can cause/increase plaque build up, heart structure changes, etc when abused and in susceptible people. Are you high?

Again, what's with the personal attacks? I must have hit a nerve at some point. You're just harassing me and not contributing to the conversation claiming i spread misinformation when i back everything up with data/science and logic.

It isn't personal as you falsely suggest. Anyone who makes bullshit claims should be called out. It's in everyone's interest. You were clearly more knowledgeable with respect to T4. When I recently raised minor criticisms regarding Dr. O'Connor in another thread with respect to the 'steroid epidemic' etc, the response was professional and objective, not unstable and asinine.

It's about the facts.

 

[Black Beard]

It isn't personal as you falsely suggest. Anyone who makes bullshit claims should be called out. You were clearly more knowledgeable with respect to T4. When I raised minor criticisms regarding Dr. O'Connor with respect to the 'steroid epidemic' etc, the response was professional and objective, not unstable and asinine.

It's about the facts.

Methodair,


I really want to apologize if i hurt your feelings at any point, i meant nothing by it and hope we can be friends and continue contributing to this great community we have here.

 

[MethodAir]

Methodair,


I really want to apologize if i hurt your feelings at any point, i meant nothing by it and hope we can be friends and continue contributing to this great community we have here.

For sure, right on Black Beard.