Hgh muscle growth studies

[johnjuanb1]

I don't think you realize that muscle is mostly water. Believe what you want but facts are facts and you are incorrect.

Exactly correct!!!

The Skeletal Muscle

Muscles make up 30 to 40 percent of the human bodyweight. Their composition is 75-80 percent water, 15-20 percent proteins, 1 percent glycogen, 1 percent lipids, 1 percent mineral salts... There are two sorts of muscles : striated ( skeletal muscle, myocardium, etc ) and smooth muscle.

Guys get too obsessed with the idea of "real muscle."
In this sport of bodybuilding, what you see from these freak mass monsters is primarily intracellular water induced by HGH, insulin, AAS, and lots of food. Stop using them all and watch what happens. Stop lifting weights and muscle cells bleed water after day #9. Several months later you have Victor Martinez looking like a fitness trainer at best. Look at Ramy's legs now vs. sept. Much respect to Ramy for having the intelligence to give his body a break for health reasons. There is no legit freak anywhere without at a minimum lifting weights a few times a weeks. Stop weights, muscles bleed out intracellular water. Stop AAS, HGH, Slin, same thing. Even SEO's must be used at a minimum maintainence dose to retain size, unless you are talking PMMA which is similar to silicon implanted beads that muscles encapsulate causing permanence.

 

[Jizzmo]

Jm425 i hear you....and yes of course i understand THERE IS water in muscle, i just do not agree that its MOSTLY WATER like you stated. ....

you have absolutely no idea what your "muscle mass" looks like composition wise.
do you think just because your muscles are "hard" that theres no water in them? lol
not even ONE THIRD of your precious "muscle mass" is dry protein accretion. the rest is glycogen and water, which are hugely increased by GH.

look at IFBB pros who fuck up their carb loading / diuretics
they end up flat as a pancake. no water, no glycogen = MUCH LESS visible muscle mass, easy as that

edit: see johnjuans post above
not sure about that 1% glycogen number though

 

[nothuman]

I think HGH might have the most bro science attached to it out of anything. Let's go over all the "rules" people have said to follow when it comes to HGH over the years.

1. you must use it for a very long time (6 months+) for fat loss and gains
- How so? What makes the waiting period any different for this as opposed to anything else? Where is the proof that it doesn't work as well until long after you started using it?

2. Alongside AAS, HGH "works" better and is more "synergistic"
- Again, where is the proof? How does AAS all of a sudden magically become more effective when HGH is in the blood? There's no actual data about this as far as I know

I know one thing. I hold more water, but look bigger and fuller on HGH. I also know AAS works regardless of whether I am using HGH. I just look a little fuller when both are used together. That might not actually mean AAS "works" better with HGH.

 

[rmtt]

I can see a difference in leanness within a few weeks of starting gh without a change in diet regardless of what it's attributed to.

In the past I used to think I did well with lower doses of aas when using gh, but in reality I think I do just as well with lower doses of aas with or without gh as long as I'm healthy.

The biggest benefit to me with gh is recovery. I rest and recuperate so much better with it. But I only use 2-3iu's daily.


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[Liftordie4ever]

There is some great material on this onixxx is a smart mfer!

 

[Elvia1023]

you have absolutely no idea what your "muscle mass" looks like composition wise.
do you think just because your muscles are "hard" that theres no water in them? lol
not even ONE THIRD of your precious "muscle mass" is dry protein accretion. the rest is glycogen and water, which are hugely increased by GH.

look at IFBB pros who fuck up their carb loading / diuretics
they end up flat as a pancake. no water, no glycogen = MUCH LESS visible muscle mass, easy as that

edit: see johnjuans post above
not sure about that 1% glycogen number though

Both Jizzmo's posts and JJ's pretty much sum things up. I have nothing to add as they have pretty much covered everything important. The reason water levels can have such a pronounced effect on the way you look (think diuretic, hgh, mk-677, dbol etc) is becuase it makes up most of your body. As Jizzmo stated how else could a decent looking bodybuilder look completely different in a matter of days or even hours.

 

[rGrimes]

Exactly correct!!!

The Skeletal Muscle

Muscles make up 30 to 40 percent of the human bodyweight. Their composition is 75-80 percent water, 15-20 percent proteins, 1 percent glycogen, 1 percent lipids, 1 percent mineral salts... There are two sorts of muscles : striated ( skeletal muscle, myocardium, etc ) and smooth muscle.

Guys get too obsessed with the idea of "real muscle."
In this sport of bodybuilding, what you see from these freak mass monsters is primarily intracellular water induced by HGH, insulin, AAS, and lots of food. Stop using them all and watch what happens. Stop lifting weights and muscle cells bleed water after day #9. Several months later you have Victor Martinez looking like a fitness trainer at best. Look at Ramy's legs now vs. sept. Much respect to Ramy for having the intelligence to give his body a break for health reasons. There is no legit freak anywhere without at a minimum lifting weights a few times a weeks. Stop weights, muscles bleed out intracellular water. Stop AAS, HGH, Slin, same thing. Even SEO's must be used at a minimum maintainence dose to retain size, unless you are talking PMMA which is similar to silicon implanted beads that muscles encapsulate causing permanence.

How does the water effect the strength, and quickness of the contraction? Is strenght more of a sign of protiens, and water size? I somewhat understand the role of intramuscular water in training, the question is more related to, does GH provide additional intramuscular water which intern increase protien because of the added effect of this water?

Having a tough time putting this into words! But, shouldnt protien increase due to this extra water, and hang around a bit once the water bleeds?

 

[addams29]

Johnj and Jizzmo i have a better understanding of what you are saying now, and its because the way you relayed the information. Thanks for that.

 

[addams29]

Elvia i agree with you too.
Onixx NOTHING PERSONAL here brother, we just had some disagreements, but i will give it to you.....your smart and you know your shit. Im still using HGH daily, and as soon as i can afford it, will work my way up to 12iu/day

 

[Jizzmo]

Johnj and Jizzmo i have a better understanding of what you are saying now, and its because the way you relayed the information. Thanks for that.

sorry for getting a bit heated up in the way i worded that. i always put my heart into these kind of discussions

How does the water effect the strength, and quickness of the contraction? Is strenght more of a sign of protiens, and water size? I somewhat understand the role of intramuscular water in training, the question is more related to, does GH provide additional intramuscular water which intern increase protien because of the added effect of this water?

Having a tough time putting this into words! But, shouldnt protien increase due to this extra water, and hang around a bit once the water bleeds?

for me strength correlates with WEIGHT at least as much as with actual muscle mass.
when im my heaviest im always my strongest. thats because of water retention, not because of more muscle mass.
of course over time you get heavier with more muscle and less fat (but probably with a similar glycogen/water content in the muscle) and by then you should be stronger too from actual muscle tissue

for example 2 years ago i was much stronger at 200 lbs very bloated than when i weighted 180lbs in good condition (purely water weight).
but now im stronger at 180lbs than 2 years ago at 200 lbs (because of more actual lean muscle tissue).

you can put on 20lbs of water weight in 2 weeks, whereas it takes months/years to gain 20lbs of actual lean muscle tissue.
the strength gains will be pretty similar though

 

[bg091593]

Why are adams and jizzmo apologizing and making up? Shouldn't you two fight for like 4 more pages until one of you, if not both of you get banned?

 

[Jizzmo]

Why are adams and jizzmo apologizing and making up? Shouldn't you two fight for like 4 more pages until one of you, if not both of you get banned?

because this is promuscle not getbig
i try to focus my inappropriate behavior towards other pages than promuscle

 

[rGrimes]

sorry for getting a bit heated up in the way i worded that. i always put my heart into these kind of discussions



for me strength correlates with WEIGHT at least as much as with actual muscle mass.
when im my heaviest im always my strongest. thats because of water retention, not because of more muscle mass.
of course over time you get heavier with more muscle and less fat (but probably with a similar glycogen/water content in the muscle) and by then you should be stronger too from actual muscle tissue

for example 2 years ago i was much stronger at 200 lbs very bloated than when i weighted 180lbs in good condition (purely water weight).
but now im stronger at 180lbs than 2 years ago at 200 lbs (because of more actual lean muscle tissue).

you can put on 20lbs of water weight in 2 weeks, whereas it takes months/years to gain 20lbs of actual lean muscle tissue.
the strength gains will be pretty similar though

So increasing intramuscular water alone makes you stronger, interesting. I know off cycle reguardless of training, strenght goes away, didnt think it was due to the water.

Thanks

 

[onixxx]

Elvia i agree with you too.
Onixx NOTHING PERSONAL here brother, we just had some disagreements, but i will give it to you.....your smart and you know your shit. Im still using HGH daily, and as soon as i can afford it, will work my way up to 12iu/day

I'm not smart at all. I just read/research a lot and hope it's wrong. And I've used hgh for awhile, I still use so I don't get fat while over eating during bulk. Also I like looking lean and fuller.
But I discovered a good generic is no different. When off the the water comes off. The cosmetic look and weight comes off.

I wanna be wrong here! i want hgh to build the muscle bro science tells me it will. And 9iu pharma for awhile has me pissed That i wasnt using a good generic.
I'll say this though, I felt better on pharma which might explain better results in many. High dosages (even pharm) and you'll feel lethargic, but on generic I was badly lethagic.

 

[Ruger72]

I'm not smart at all. I just read/research a lot and hope it's wrong. And I've used hgh for awhile, I still use so I don't get fat while over eating during bulk. Also I like looking lean and fuller.

But I discovered a good generic is no different. When off the the water comes off. The cosmetic look and weight comes off.



I wanna be wrong here! i want hgh to build the muscle bro science tells me it will. And 9iu pharma for awhile has me pissed That i wasnt using a good generic.

I'll say this though, I felt better on pharma which might explain better results in many. High dosages (even pharm) and you'll feel lethargic, but on generic I was badly lethagic.

So generic = UG? Total noob here on gh, stuff scares me a bit.

 

[addams29]

Jizzzmo its all good bro! Yes we all are guilty of getting heated in discusions.....after all we are after the same thing, truth and results!
Onnixx i get your point as well.... im not as dumb as i sound. I have been reading University stidies, LEF. org studies, Pubmed and medline studies, as well as i am building a library and phasing into anti-aging science.
One thing we must ALL realize, just because we read a study and interpret its results, does not make it 100% credible. There are docs and scientists who get grants to continue posting scewed and inaccurate data to fit A certain group's or organizations's agenda.
Hence the man made global warming myth... all in an effort to pass through the Senate the Waxman/Markey bill(Cap and trade)
We gotta be careful when interpreting these studies. So far LEF and Pubmed dont seem to entertain special interests.

 

[addams29]

NO bg091 i'm ot trying to get banned!

 

[Stewie]

Anabolic processes in human skeletal muscle: restoring the identities of growth hormone and testosterone. - PubMed - NCBI

Anabolic processes in human skeletal muscle: restoring the identities of growth hormone and testosterone.
West DW1, Phillips SM.
Author information

Abstract

Testosterone supplementation acts via numerous mechanisms as a highly potent anabolic agent to skeletal muscle. Although growth hormone (GH) strongly affects collagen synthesis and lipolysis, as well as increasing lean body mass, it is not anabolic toward the contractile (ie, myofibrillar) muscle tissue in healthy individuals. However, there is a persistent belief (both in scientific literature and among recreational weightlifters) that exercise-induced release of GH and testosterone underpins muscular hypertrophy with resistance training. This is a premature assumption because although pharmacological GH supplementation can increase muscle strength or size in individuals with clinical GH deficiency, there is no evidence that transient exercise-induced changes in GH have the same effects in individuals with normal GH levels. Exercise paradigms are designed based on the assumption (not necessarily evidenced-based mechanisms) that GH and testosterone facilitate anabolic processes that lead to skeletal muscle protein accretion and hypertrophy. Our recent work disputes this assumption. Instead, our data indicate that exercise-induced hormonal elevations do not enhance intracellular markers of anabolic signaling or the acute postexercise elevation of myofibrillar protein synthesis. Furthermore, data from our training study demonstrate that exercise-induced increases in GH and testosterone availability are not necessary for and do not enhance strength and hypertrophy adaptations. Instead, our data lead us to conclude that local mechanisms that are intrinsic to the skeletal muscle tissue performing the resistive contractions (ie, weightlifting) are predominant in stimulating anabolism. The purpose of this article is 1) to provide a brief overview of the mechanisms of action of testosterone and GH; 2) to discuss the inability of physiological exercise-induced elevations in these hormones to have a measurable impact on skeletal muscle anabolism; and 3) to describe factors that we believe are more important for stimulating hypertrophy in human skeletal muscle. Clarifying both the role of hormones in regulating muscle mass as well as the underlying basis for adaptation of skeletal muscle to resistance exercise will hopefully enhance and support the prescription of resistance exercise as an integral component of a healthy lifestyle.

Within this link you'll find several GH references.

http://www.cell.com/trends/endocrinology-metabolism/references/S1043-2760(11)00030-0

-Lastly. I'm asking those who keep claiming the increase of intracellular water in healthy non-dehydrated non-critically ill patients is the purposed mechinsim of action on both increased muscle mass and intramuscular water retention from GH. There's a world of differences in cell biology between inadequate and adequate fluid levels in body tissues; e.g, isotonic, hypertonic or hypotonic state. As well there's a world of difference between a pathophysiological state and a homeostatic state.

Intramuscular water is mainly controlled by extracellular fluid. As I pointed out before, Interstital fluid is one of the main osmotic regulators for intramuscular solution. Extracellular fluid is made up of three different components; Interstitial fluid, plasma and transcellular fluid. This is extremely easy information to find.

-Please cite these references, I'm not looking for hearsay. Please cite, as I'm undeniably interested in learning something new.

Thanks

 

[Jizzmo]

stewie whats your theory on the lean mass increase on GH? where does it come from? theres no doubt that GH and peptides increase "fullness" in the muscle, so therefore i guess everyone assumes it must be intramuscular water retention...
genuinely interested, i always love reading your stuff

 

[Stewie]

stewie whats your theory on the lean mass increase on GH? where does it come from? theres no doubt that GH and peptides increase "fullness" in the muscle, so therefore i guess everyone assumes it must be intramuscular water retention...
genuinely interested, i always love reading your stuff

Not my theory, as there's clinical data indicating that GH independently increases peripheral tissues conversion of T4 to T3. IGF1 acts independently on increasing circulation of fT3. These would be a few of the mediated actions on lipolysis working in concert, therefore increased LBM.

The increased water retention is intramuscular. Although the osmolarity is moreso favorable towards increased extracellular water.

Not that this is directed at you. I have a feeling some people confuse
subcutaneous water as one in the same as extracellular water. Although we're not discussing subq water, as that is also extracellular fluid.

Cells (intracellular and extracellular) are located in both areas of the muscle--- inter and intra.