High Fructose corn syrup is not like sugar...

[MR. BMJ]

A poison is always dependant on the amount it is dosed at....or in this case consumed.

Sugar/HFCS is not a "poison/toxin" or harmful at certain intakes, excessive amounts can lead to some concerns. Lustig totally overlooks this by infering that HFCS/fructose in any amount is harmful and a toxin. I don't think you will find anybody stating that soda in excessive amounts is not a "FACTOR" in the obesity epidemic, but infering that it is "THE" sole reason for such happenings is misleading. As the following suggests:

Here’s the latest from the USDA Economic Research Service (ERS), which tracked the percent of total daily calories of the range of food groups from 1970-2007. The actual spreadsheet of the following figures can be downloaded here, click on the “Percents” tab at the bottom [1]:

Meats, eggs, and nut kcals decreased 4%.
Dairy kcals decreased 3%.
Percentage of fruit kcals stayed the same.
Percentage of vegetable kcals stayed the same.
Flour and cereal product kcals increased 3%.
Added fat kcals are up 7%,
Added sugars kcals decreased 1%
Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.

Taking a hard look at the data above, it appears that the rise in obesity is due in large part to an increase in caloric intake across the board, rather than an increase in carbohydrate in particular.

Now, i'll agree with bigguns, that sodas can be addictive, and because they are calorically dense, they add a LOT of calories with a small amount ingested, so there is some concerns to be had, especially since they are so easy to consume. It take 20 seconds to suck down a can of soda (maybe not literally for most) or a cup of juice, etc.....but again, this also becomes a concern for overconsumption of calories moreso than HFCS being a toxin.

A person at Dusty Hanshaw's condition sucking down strawberry sodas post-workout, will have a much different outcome than somebody consuming an overconsumption of calories every day, and a bodyfat of 20+%.

A soda or two a day isn't going to kill anybody, especially if the person is active, lean, and isn't eating a bunch of other shit food bringing his calories way above maintenance day-in-and-day-out.

This is why so many people preach "dosage and context" of any food or drug or food.

I'm not pro or con HFCS, and I do not promote people, especially kids, to go out and suck down a billion ounces each day, but moderation every now and then is fine. Obesity is multi-factoral, and blame can never be placed on just one factor of the equation.


BMJ

 

[Nssca]

A poison is always dependant on the amount it is dosed at....or in this case consumed.

Sugar/HFCS is not a "poison/toxin" or harmful at certain intakes, excessive amounts can lead to some concerns. Lustig totally overlooks this by infering that HFCS/fructose in any amount is harmful and a toxin. I don't think you will find anybody stating that soda in excessive amounts is not a "FACTOR" in the obesity epidemic, but infering that it is "THE" sole reason for such happenings is misleading. As the following suggests:




Now, i'll agree with bigguns, that sodas can be addictive, and because they are calorically dense, they add a LOT of calories with a small amount ingested, so there is some concerns to be had, especially since they are so easy to consume. It take 20 seconds to suck down a can of soda (maybe not literally for most) or a cup of juice, etc.....but again, this also becomes a concern for overconsumption of calories moreso than HFCS being a toxin.

A person at Dusty Hanshaw's condition sucking down strawberry sodas post-workout, will have a much different outcome than somebody consuming an overconsumption of calories every day, and a bodyfat of 20+%.

A soda or two a day isn't going to kill anybody, especially if the person is active, lean, and isn't eating a bunch of other shit food bringing his calories way above maintenance day-in-and-day-out.

This is why so many people preach "dosage and context" of any food or drug or food.

I'm not pro or con HFCS, and I do not promote people, especially kids, to go out and suck down a billion ounces each day, but moderation every now and then is fine. Obesity is multi-factoral, and blame can never be placed on just one factor of the equation.


BMJ

I can see some of you didn't take the time to watch and listen to the original post's video...sugar and HFCS ( is "NOT" Fructose) are not the same or anywhere similar.
Watch the video.. then comment.

 

[infinity1]

I can see some of you didn't take the time to watch and listen to the original post's video...sugar and HFCS ( is "NOT" Fructose) are not the same or anywhere similar.
Watch the video.. then comment.

I myself did not have an hour and a half to devote to watch the video. But from my schooling know that HFCS has been altered by an enzyme to make it similar to Fructose but do know that it is very unhealthy with regards to your balance of omega 3 and 6's. The fructose found in fruit is nothing like HFCS.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I can see some of you didn't take the time to watch and listen to the original post's video...sugar and HFCS ( is "NOT" Fructose) are not the same or anywhere similar.
Watch the video.. then comment.

There’s no evidence that a mix of free fructose & glucose causes any different metabolic effects than sucrose, if you have research showing otherwise, in humans, then i'd love to read it.

Furthermore, I did listen to Lustig's 9 videos of total alarmist bullshit. He was correct on a lot of things, but wrong on many as well, as pointed out by many in the links I provided inmy initial post. His appeal to authority did not do him very well inhis debate in the threads I provided....yes, the same guy in the videos.

James Krieger pretty much summed up the differences between HFCS and sucrose (aka sugar):

The only practical difference between sucrose and HFCS is in the bonding. The glucose & fructose in HFCS is mainly free and unbonded, while it is bonded in sucrose.

However, this makes no *meaningful* difference in regards to metabolism in the body. The bonds in sucrose are quickly broken when sucrose hits the acid environment of the stomach. This means that once sucrose hits the stomach, it’s no different from HFCS.

Once you get to the small intestine, metabolism is *exactly* the same.

This *little bit of difference* does not lead to the problems Dr. Lustig talks about. The fact is, HFCS and sucrose are identical as far as your body is concerned. The difference in bonding wouldn’t make a shred of difference in regards to your health.

BMJ

 

[Golgo13]

if i'm not mistaken the fructose in fruit is not the same as HFCS.

Right. Comparing the two is insane.

 

[Mr.Bungle]

I love how the industry tries to play it off like it's safe cause it comes from a plant. Crack and heroin are made from plants too.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I love how the industry tries to play it off like it's safe cause it comes from a plant. Crack and heroin are made from plants too.

Did you even read anything outside of the original link?

A bottle of aspirin can do major damage to a person but a few will not. This is the same when it comes to either sugar or HFCS. You are not figuring in the dose and context. Your statement is weak unless you have something to prove you are correct, that "it" is dangerous at all amounts consumed???

BMJ

 

[infinity1]

Did you even read anything outside of the original link?

A bottle of aspirin can do major damage to a person but a few will not. This is the same when it comes to either sugar or HFCS. You are not figuring in the dose and context. Your statement is weak unless you have something to prove you are correct, that "it" is dangerous at all amounts consumed???

BMJ

Mr BMJ, I agree-that HFCS in small quantities is probably not going to harm anyone-the problem is in the fact that the HFCS is in so many processed foods that Americans purchase today, as it is a cheaper alternative to using sugar and grass for our livestock for those who supply us our foods.

 

[Mr.Bungle]

Did you even read anything outside of the original link?

A bottle of aspirin can do major damage to a person but a few will not. This is the same when it comes to either sugar or HFCS. You are not figuring in the dose and context. Your statement is weak unless you have something to prove you are correct, that "it" is dangerous at all amounts consumed???

BMJ

How is it a weak statement. The cocaine analogy came from a link off another HFCS thread on this forum, a very interesting one, but obviously not up to your standards so I won't bother copying and pasting it here. The point is people are not consuming it in safe amounts because it is hidden in so many products. Instead of grabbing a soda people think they are being healthy grabbing a Powerade not realizing HFCS is the second ingredient after water. Comparing drugs to HFCS is just to point out that just cause it comes from a plant doesn't make it ok for everyday consumption.

 

[mjfit]

Maybe its just me but what I took from it was that sugar is the problem weather from hfcs or not. They put it wear it doesn't need to be and they take the fiber out. The argument is not over hfcs they just use that cause its cheaper.

 

[ChuteBoxer]

there is actually a push from the industry to change the name from HFCS to corn sugar

This is completely whack. "Lets trick individuals into unknowingly consuming our poisonous product." Pathetic

 

[Wonton]

I have started training under Phil for about 1.5 months now. Fruits and vegetables are my main carb source at every meal. No grains. I was skeptical at first, but turned a blind eye and followed what i was told. Zero, fat gain, leaner and stronger every week.

Guys that train with Phil will back me up on this.

In the land of the blind the person with one eye is king.

Phil no doubt has more experience and knowledge then tons of us here. It's human nature to question...where people get into trouble is thinking their limited knowledge surpasses someone eles ..which is just ignorance.

Very smart man realizing the above.

I want to use phil also but I want more meat on me before I go there.

Well - I will def keep the wife away from syrup if I can..or at least have her cut back. Thanks for the informative post.

 

[Bionic]

My own experience with HFCS has been that even though I've been dieting steadily for a while, I've not been able to drop the BF beyond a certain point. While I'm hesitant and embarrassed to admit it, I drink quite a bit of caffeine-free, diet cola. That's the only dark horse in my diet. Calories (5-600<maintenance) /macros are in check and there's really no reason for me to be stuck... other than the HFCS in the cola.
While this is, by no means, the nail in the HFCS coffin I'm gonna cut that crap (diet soda) out and see if things start moving back towards my goals. I'll let you all know.

 

[Bammy]

My own experience with HFCS has been that even though I've been dieting steadily for a while, I've not been able to drop the BF beyond a certain point. While I'm hesitant and embarrassed to admit it, I drink quite a bit of caffeine-free, diet cola. That's the only dark horse in my diet. Calories (5-600<maintenance) /macros are in check and there's really no reason for me to be stuck... other than the HFCS in the cola.
While this is, by no means, the nail in the HFCS coffin I'm gonna cut that crap (diet soda) out and see if things start moving back towards my goals. I'll let you all know.

Diet sodas? They have artificial sweeteners, not HFCS... but cut out the diet sodas anyway

 

[Bionic]

Diet sodas? They have artificial sweeteners, not HFCS... but cut out the diet sodas anyway

D'oh!!! I'm an asshole! Thanks. But now I'm at a loss to WTF is going on with the old diet. Wonder if it's a ghrelin/leptin thing? Back to the drawing board. We now rejoin your regularly scheduled HFCS debate already in progress...

 

[Macdaddy]

The real issues is Fructose regardless if it comes from HFCS or Sucrose or any other possible form. Fructose has bad byproducts whereas Glucose can be metabolized completely by the liver with no issues. Go long enough building up the metabolized by products of Fructose and you WILL have some issues sooner or later.

 

[aesop]

wow people will believe anything. Sucrose is glucose and fructose. fructose is fine, anything to excess is bad. The cane/ beat sugar lobby is leading the way against HFCS everyone is trying to sell you something and if you believe they are telling you it's bad to protect your health you are a sheep.

If the gov cuts the tariff's on cane sugar the industry will stop using hfcs they really aren't that different from one another.

 

[Bammy]

People always try to simplify things. Like " oh fructose is ok in moderation." While the fructose content may be a concern, the real issue is that HFCS is made from GMO corn, and is extracted with harsh chemicals. It is a nasty, unhealthy product any way you look at it. Now, I know the dose determines the poison and all, but some things are just plain unhealthy no matter how you spin it. Sure I could eat a little of it and get away with it, but why not just stay away from shit products like this altogether? HFCS IS different from other sugars, and it IS bad for your health.

 

[Macdaddy]

The problem is that Fructose in its many forms is finding its way into a large % of our food. Most Americans don't eat like a bodybuilder. They are eating packaged food, fast food, breaded, deep fried etc. The food companies are putting Fructose (mainly HFCS due to cost) in much of the food they produce. This improves taste and to be perfectly honest, increases addiction to the food itself.

It may be true that a small amount of Fructose is ok. But lets face it, what average American is getting a small amount? Everyone is getting fructose in almost everything they eat. Fructose consumption is WAY up in the past 30 years.

I saw a commercial the other day promoting Nutella as a healthy choice to feed your kids in the morning. The stuff is basically super sweet chocolate with hazelnut flavor. WTF!!! Look at all the cereal ads. Frosted Flakes, Lucky Charms, Coco Pebbles, etc. We are getting addicted from an early age.

 

[Nssca]

Next time you go to the groceries store try to fill your cart with only foods that have no HFCS....
Unless you stay in the fresh produce/Meat sections you will not be able to fill your cart full...Guarantee
Everything from Peanut butter to bread has HFCS..everything!!!
HFCS is the reason for today's Obesity issues. If you don't think so then please tell us what is the problem...
And for those who still think HFCS is similar to fructose...
sense when is corn a fruit?