Hormone fluctuations is more natural

[Kaladryn]

That's because you aromatize less I bet hence more TT and FT.

Only a tiny amount of testosterone aromatizes, like 2-3% if I remember correctly.

 

[BIG1512]

Even when cycling I do daily dosing, I get crazy free test numbers from doing daily and I feel I get better results for the dose. Also, TRT is often used between cycles even if you are going hard, I personally think going off completely if you can get some natty production going, or doing physiological TRT doses is a major key for recovering faster between cycles and can ultimately allow for less time off in the long run, since most people will eventually be limited by health factors.

Same here I daily dose everything. Idc what it is.

 

[ripriot]

used test ace as trt many times. ive posted details various times.
i find test ace to be a very smooth releasing test.
using trt dose one will certainly notice fluctuations. it all comes down to ester and admin schedule. i generally shoot trt ed i take one day off per week usually.
since im used to ed dosing i can tell pretty fast if a make a change and i make changes often to understand esters, depot dynamics and admin schedule.

the biggest thing i noticed with test ace is that even if i spaced out admins as far as e2 or 3 day the skin on my back was quite clear. acne on the back or varrying degrees of it is one thing i notice and atribute to mino hormone changes.

trt has a very different feel the cycle levels.
tu when looked at for trt actually has the least amount of conversion to est and pro. i have not used that alone enough to comment.

i LOVE Test Ace. Better then base. I really don't understand how it is not more popular then propionate.

 

[ripriot]

Gee thanks for the heads up on that.

When it’s used in the application of hormone levels it’s not literal, it’s not possible to have always steady hormone levels…..unless by steady you mean fluctuating at a relatively consistent degree or trying to mimic normal fluctuations.

If a person has a specific compound/ester that they inject or apply every day. Would that not imply that they have a steady dose of exogenous hormones being applied every day... To keep their hormones as stable as possible. The steady regulation of hormones comes from ones own capabilities not necessarily from the ester, test, or the hormone itself. It comes from self regulation.

 

[ripriot]

Only a tiny amount of testosterone aromatizes, like 2-3% if I remember correctly.

Depends on the individual!!!

 

[Zarati]

Depends on the individual!!!

Some people hyper aromatize for sure, specially people who have used gear for long

 

[heavyhitter]

I think daily dosing is best for trt/hormone replacement or even smaller cycles. But when we’re talking 1 plus grams of gear i honeslty doubt it matters. We’re trying to do something very unnatural to our bodies so our natural test rising and falling is kind of obsolete. And anyways, when you’re using that much oil you’re probably injecting 3-5 times weekly anyways

 

[Type-IIx]

Sometimes, and just sometimes, what we humans come up with is better for our purposes (growth, recomp) than what nature gave us. With testosterone this is true.

Same is even true for rhGH... it used to be argued that pulsatile hGH secretion is optimal b/c we naturally see that. It is a bit more surprising, hGH versus AAS, because with hGH we are dealing with an "evolutionarily optimized" molecule... e.g., hGH activates primate GH receptors better than primate/other mammals' GH, whereas primate/lower species' GH is inactive at human receptors...

Anyway, for growth, there is zero evidence that secretory endogenous release is best. In fact, the opposite is true for our purposes at higher (> endogenous) levels. The AR is, for example, upregulated rather than downregulated with exposure. "Stable levels" of androgens are good for growth, recomp, and FEELZ across the board.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Sometimes, and just sometimes, what we humans come up with is better for our purposes (growth, recomp) than what nature gave us. With testosterone this is true

That was my point earlier. If the opposite were true, assuming our body is producing normal testosterone levels, we'd have no need for testosterone (and/or analogues) at all. But when we switch from 'normal testosterone levels' to 'normal testosterone levels FOR OUR PURPOSES' the entire 'normal' paradigm changes from 'normal' to 'optimal'. And the general rule is the optimal amount is the very most we can take on a dose-respondent curve. How high on the curve we decide to go changes only because of our own limiting factors (our general health, growth, diminishing returns, financial limitations, etc). For some that amount = 'the LEAST I can take and make some gains and stay healthy'. For others, that amount = 'the MOST I can take and make crazy gains safely'. And finally, those whose epitaphs read "I just took everything I could get my hands on".

Anyway, for growth, there is zero evidence that secretory endogenous release is best. In fact, the opposite is true for our purposes at higher (> endogenous) levels. The AR is, for example, upregulated rather than downregulated with exposure. "Stable levels" of androgens are good for growth, recomp, and FEELZ across the board.

Zero evidence. And we can only do our best to spike our levels at optimal times which would be during training days and during recovery periods which pretty much = all the time. The harsh reality is quite simple: the more you take, the more you'll gain. If you're done growing, or done trying to grow, or maybe you want to maintain size and optimize health, all of that is all well and good if that's what you prefer. But it doesn't change the fact that once you throw out health and other limiting factors, the sheer amount of size, performance, and condition will always = 'more is better'.

Like Icarus in Greek Mythology, we all decide for ourselves how close to the sun we want to fly.

 

[hawkmoon]

I dose all injectables once a week, only increasing frequency of total doses increase as in prep. Always long esters or blends.

When in prep and dosing say EOD I can't see anything attributed specifically to the dosing protocol, more than amount and type of AAS. Incidentally early in the prep it's the same choices as off season.

I always did it this way and have no complaints or issues that I think could be rectified with daily dosing. It's not practical for me anyway.

To those of you who do daily and it works I think that's great, I'm not going to assume what's best for everyone based on my own limited experience. For me it makes no discernable difference.

 

[heavyhitter]

I dose all injectables once a week, only increasing frequency of total doses increase as in prep. Always long esters or blends.

When in prep and dosing say EOD I can't see anything attributed specifically to the dosing protocol, more than amount and type of AAS. Incidentally early in the prep it's the same choices as off season.

I always did it this way and have no complaints or issues that I think could be rectified with daily dosing. It's not practical for me anyway.

To those of you who do daily and it works I think that's great, I'm not going to assume what's best for everyone based on my own limited experience. For me it makes no discernable difference.

Long term daily or even eod is really gonna lead to scar tissue build up over the years too. I can’t hardly inject my delts anymore as pushing a pin through them takes a good amount of effort

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I dose all injectables once a week, only increasing frequency of total doses increase as in prep. Always long esters or blends.

When in prep and dosing say EOD I can't see anything attributed specifically to the dosing protocol, more than amount and type of AAS. Incidentally early in the prep it's the same choices as off season.

I always did it this way and have no complaints or issues that I think could be rectified with daily dosing. It's not practical for me anyway.

To those of you who do daily and it works I think that's great, I'm not going to assume what's best for everyone based on my own limited experience. For me it makes no discernable difference.

It's personal preference really. With long esterified compounds you're going to reach a steady-state plasma level anyway so it's preference. Myself, I hate injections. We have guys here filling a 5ml barrel until the plunger won't go back any further and other guys drawing to the 10 mark on a 100iu slin pin. No definitive rules in this endeavor.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Long term daily or even eod is really gonna lead to scar tissue build up over the years too. I can’t hardly inject my delts anymore as pushing a pin through them takes a good amount of effort

MCT oil gear and 31g slin pin. If you’re too fat for a short slin pin to reach inside your muscle through fascia, then go on a cut, ya fatass

 

[Kaladryn]

1. I think daily dosing may be optimal even for larger cycles, forget mimicking pulsatile natty release, that really isn't the point, just a possible side benefit when doing TRT doses. Daily seems to lead to high levels of free hormone.

2. Health is HUGE for maximizing size and growth! Perhaps the biggest factor! This is what allows you to keep pushing over the long term and what lets you use higher doses, recover, utilize food, etc. The healthier you are, the bigger you will get in the long run, EVEN IF YOUR GOAL IS PURE SIZE. The more you take the bigger you will get IF you can remain healthy. The second your health falters, all your gains are limited.

3. You can do even larger precontest cycles with 30g slin pins (even without backloading) to minimize scar tissue. You will get less scar tissue from 30g daily dosing than 25g anything for sure.

4. Daily dosing was common among pros in the 90s, lots of them talked about it, Dillet, Levrone, Milos (just to name a few) all talked about daily dosing.

5. In reference to testosterone aromatization above, sure activity level of non-testicular aromatase varies in individuals, but that doesn't change the fact that only a TINY fraction of total testosterone is ever aromatized to E2, even in hyper-aromatizing individuals.

 

[LK3]

i LOVE Test Ace. Better then base. I really don't understand how it is not more popular then propionate.

idk how or why base and ace are even in the same sentence other then ryme?
ace is even less feely then cyp

 

[LK3]

It's personal preference really. With long esterified compounds you're going to reach a steady-state plasma level anyway so it's preference. Myself, I hate injections. We have guys here filling a 5ml barrel until the plunger won't go back any further and other guys drawing to the 10 mark on a 100iu slin pin. No definitive rules in this endeavor.

have you ever done a 5cc vs a 1/10cc?
5 cc sucks
slin pin injects the only issue is the time and wasting an entire pin for a drop of gear.

i find ed dosing only weird with mid range dosing. like up to a cc ed. once you hit 1.5 almost no matter where you put it its noticable.

then i think much better to get balance as in 1cc+ going bi lateral.

i notice heavily when i start spacing out lower doses.

there have been times when i used 20+cc wk. then multi peptides shot ed antiox etc... lol
i like pain.

 

[heavyhitter]

MCT oil gear and 31g slin pin. If you’re too fat for a short slin pin to reach inside your muscle through fascia, then go on a cut, ya fatass

It would take a long ass time to put 3 ml of gear through a 31 g slin pin regardless of the carrier oil. That said…I do like to spot inject smaller amounts of gear into my bis and tris with slin pins

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

It would take a long ass time to put 3 ml of gear through a 31 g slin pin regardless of the carrier oil. That said…I do like to spot inject smaller amounts of gear into my bis and tris with slin pins

It’s not so bad as you would think especially with homebrew MCT. I regularly do .5 - 1.0 ml depending on my primo dose and it only takes a few seconds for each .1 ml

Just IME though

PS does anybody else like to read @LK3 ramble on about injecting because I sure do

 

[heavyhitter]

It’s not so bad as you would think especially with homebrew MCT. I regularly do .5 - 1.0 ml depending on my primo dose and it only takes a few seconds for each .1 ml

Just IME though

PS does anybody else like to read @LK3 ramble on about injecting because I sure do

Ya I love lk3 posts. And I get what you’re saying but I’d never be able to stick to that long term. My current cycle is 2 3ml injections and 1 2ml injection weekly. This would take way too much time and too many slin pins to ever be worthwhile, and my hormone levels are so high that it will never make a difference if I do it daily. But like I did mention, I use slin pins for spot injecting arms and it’s made a very noticeable difference in my arm development. I suspect this to mostly be because I can feel the muscle while it’s a little sore from injections and I’m able to focus more on them while training. I think a little of it is from localized inflammation as well

 

[OuchThatHurts]

have you ever done a 5cc vs a 1/10cc?
5 cc sucks
slin pin injects the only issue is the time and wasting an entire pin for a drop of gear.

i find ed dosing only weird with mid range dosing. like up to a cc ed. once you hit 1.5 almost no matter where you put it its noticable.

then i think much better to get balance as in 1cc+ going bi lateral.

i notice heavily when i start spacing out lower doses.

there have been times when i used 20+cc wk. then multi peptides shot ed antiox etc... lol
i like pain.

I have not. But I've seen it done. I was pointing out extremes. The most I ever have done is 3cc's at a time. I think 5cc's in one reservoir would take too much time to dissipate causing possible problems.

That's just my opinion though as the medical community might disagree with me considering they're just fine with a Nebido 4cc one-time injection.

I use a method for amounts over 2cc's by doing half, then pulling the needle out to subq range and then moving my hand to go in at a different angle for the remainder. Usually it's 1cc at a time though for example 750mg test/wk will be 3 x 1cc 3 days a week. What other people do and how they do it is of no concern to me. Bilateral might be great if you're doing huge quantities of oils in a week. The most I've ever done is 10cc's oil in a week (4ml test, 3ml eq, 3ml tren) along with growth factors.

And for lesser amounts, 0.5ml, 0.25ml, I'll use a slin pin but I'm not going to religiously commit to slin pins only. Slin pins are simply not adequate for a deep intramuscular inj. I approach things medically, not BBing community bro-talk style.

I can do a 2 or 3cc deep glute inj and it's not very noticable to me if at all. Delts maybe bc those are more shallow. And I'm just fine with sesame or grapeseed oil. I notice more site inflammation with MCT and EO. Just bc the pin is 1.5" doesn't mean you have bury the needle. LOL. I go to the depth that I want.

FWIW, I have no trouble putting 1/10th cc HCG, GH, LR3IGF, or even test suspension into a forearm, medialis, or calf muscle. But only because it's water-based and a rather small amount. And I don't cry myself to sleep at night because of a little site post-inj soreness.