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How much protein do you eat and why.???

Kaladryn

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Hawkmoon, you are a bright guy with loads of experience and a great physique to
prove it.

Lowering your protein . . . you won't notice a thing. Guaranteed if you stay within
the RDA. (I know people who have gained muscle on lot less protein.) And you will
feel better too.

I also suspect you are not in a growing faze, maintaining what you have being a
priority. (Think age, health.)

Personally, I would just eat a 'normal' diet, don't stress the protein, it will be what
it will be. But do keep track of the overall calories, just don't get fat unless you need
to (too lean).

This high protein obsession (not saying you) is just that . . . an obsession with no
real science supporting i.e. anything beyond the RDA. Just follow the RDA and you
are good to go. As you lose and gain muscle just adjust you protein in accordance
to your weight. Easy peasy.

Just my opinion.
Those RDA numbers are just pulled out of someone's ass btw, for both macros and micros. For micros, they estimated what everyone needs at a minimum and just doubled it across the board #science

I eat about 35-40g per meal, 6 meals per day. I count all sources. Total is about 30% of calories.

If I tried to eat less, I'd have to eat too much fat and carbs, if I hate more, I wouldn't be able to eat enough carbs and fat (is basically how I look at it).

1586529886706.png
 

NEMSZ

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I don’t count.. Why? Because who cares unless you’re competing and have to dial things in to specifics..

I just make sure to have healthy whole meals with protein in them.. Whether it be a snack like Ezekiel bread and natural peanut/almond butter (yes that protein still counts, don’t care what you say) or mashed sweet potatoes and 4-5 poached whole eggs thrown in etc.. I just make sure my meals are healthy things I like to eat and have some source of protein.. I do eat lots of fruit too...

Only time I plan on getting more strict with my diet is the 2-3 weeks of PSMF I plan on doing in a few weeks and then after I plan on cutting our sugar/bullshit down significantly... My main issue is I’ll eat a whole healthy meal like sweet potatoes and eggs and have a banana, and then I’ll munch on some cookies or chocolate lol but I make sure to only eat that kind of shit once I’ve “earned” it with activity and all the healthy food first so I don’t have room to eat too much of it.. But I should probably cut it down to weekends only or something...
 

tren_plz

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"Not tracking" is exactly why 90% of ppl look the same year after year...if thats what you're going for..why take AAS at all?

Still doing the routine, still not tracking, still not dieting, still looking the same.

That shits not for me. /shrug
 

alfresco

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Those RDA numbers are just pulled out of someone's ass btw, for both macros and micros. For micros, they estimated what everyone needs at a minimum and just doubled it across the board #science

I eat about 35-40g per meal, 6 meals per day. I count all sources. Total is about 30% of calories.

If I tried to eat less, I'd have to eat too much fat and carbs, if I hate more, I wouldn't be able to eat enough carbs and fat (is basically how I look at it).

K, I really like your spreadsheet. Where did you get it or did you create it yourself?
 

NEMSZ

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"Not tracking" is exactly why 90% of ppl look the same year after year...if thats what you're going for..why take AAS at all?

Still doing the routine, still not tracking, still not dieting, still looking the same.

That shits not for me. /shrug

Not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder or be super huge... If that’s your thing where you have to do it and you eventually want to be a 300lb monster then cool for you...

I’m perfectly happy being 180-185lbs at 5’8 in single digits but with functional fitness.. I can run sprints, run 5-7 miles at a time, do a split, I can do multiple sets of 30 rep pull ups, I can do Turkish getups with 53lb kettlebells and do “advanced” kettlebell routines without dying anymore etc.. My goals relate to my actual fitness level while remaining lean/athletic...

Granted, at times I’ll slack off on the working out and the eating and gain some bodyfat etc, but it’s usually because there’s other goals that are taking up that time/attention.. Not because I’m on the couch watching Netflix, it’s more like I had multiple 12-16 hour days for weeks at a time in my business etc..

You don’t have to have your entire world revolve around diet/training to look really good... Again, bodybuilding and getting huge is a different story of course..
 

Kaladryn

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K, I really like your spreadsheet. Where did you get it or did you create it yourself?
It's my own, all formulas based on gram amounts. It's super easy to set up and modify, PM me if you want to copy it, I'll send a link.
 

tren_plz

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Not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder or be super huge... If that’s your thing where you have to do it and you eventually want to be a 300lb monster then cool for you...

I’m perfectly happy being 180-185lbs at 5’8 in single digits but with functional fitness.. I can run sprints, run 5-7 miles at a time, do a split, I can do multiple sets of 30 rep pull ups, I can do Turkish getups with 53lb kettlebells and do “advanced” kettlebell routines without dying anymore etc.. My goals relate to my actual fitness level while remaining lean/athletic...

Granted, at times I’ll slack off on the working out and the eating and gain some bodyfat etc, but it’s usually because there’s other goals that are taking up that time/attention.. Not because I’m on the couch watching Netflix, it’s more like I had multiple 12-16 hour days for weeks at a time in my business etc..

You don’t have to have your entire world revolve around diet/training to look really good... Again, bodybuilding and getting huge is a different story of course..

Completely agree. I'd say 7/10 here identify themselves as a Bodybuilder.

I'll eventually transition back into running. I want to do Triathlons/Marathons once i'm done competitively bodybuilding. I loved running in the Marines, aka they brainwashed me into it. I cant run for shit right now at 260. For those taking BB serious, i genuinely believe ppl dont progress because they 'wing it'.

If you plan your day to be successful you're already ahead of the game. I take that same attitude with everything I do personally.
 

beverast

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When I started working out about 16 years ago I started following the advice from the muscle magazines and obsessed over my intake, always making sure to get at least 2.2g/kg of total body mass (about 1g/lb). About to go to bed but only had around 2g/kg? Better down another protein shake or eat another bar before I go catabolic and lose all my muscle over night. With gear use and lecture of pertinent online boards came more and more dissenting voices saying you don't really need as much protein with PED use so I started eating 1-1.5g/kg maximum a day while eating more carbs and fat. Well, at the time I would've told everyone "don't worry too much about protein, I'm eating way less than before and I don't notice a difference.".

For the past 2 years I have now gotten back to 2.5-3g/kg during hypercaloric eating and 3+g/kg while dieting. Right now I'm cutting and eating 320-350g a day (at 6'5, 230lbs, 10-11% bf). Personally I think I'm looking the best I ever have and I feel way better in general.

So in short: 2.5-3.5g/kg bodyweight, depending on whether im cutting or not.
 

graybass

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I trained clients based on the Parrillo Nutrition Method for years. They said that when cutting or bulking the best way to calculate your protein is to use your lean muscle weight as the ruler. In other words if you weigh 250 at 15% body fat your lean parts would weight would be 212.5lbs. So approximately 212 grams of protein a day would be maintenance. 1 gram per lean lb. To gain you would go up to approximately 318 grams per day. 1.5 grams per lean lbs. daily. Of course everyone is different. Again not based on BW but muscle weight. The whole pre-contest diet was a lot more complex of course. We decreased the carbs every 2 weeks approx. 50 grams according to bodyweight, target BF %, length of diet required, etc.
I've worked with many champions over the years with this basic diet.
 

beverast

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Not to forget to mention that in the context of a hypocaloric diet (with the goal of shedding body fat while preserving muscle protein), higher protein has a number of other advantages:
1. Out of the macronutrients, it has the largest effect on satiety
2. It provides the highest thermic effect of food to the tune of about 25% of its calories
3. It's a lot harder to overeat on high protein foods

Of course fats and carbs bring a number of advantages to the table as well, with fat providing flavour, "mouth feel", and especially in the case of poly unsaturated fatty acids a positive effect on fat metabolism. Carbohydrates, via liver glyocgen, have an effect on hunger etc.
Generally speaking, while dieting I'd always aim for high protein. Past that, whether you do better on moderate carbs/low fat, or moderate fat/high carbs, or moderate everything, depends mostly on individual factors (insulin sensitivity would be an example).
 

Kaladryn

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2. It provides the highest thermic effect of food to the tune of about 25% of its calories

This is already calculated in the calorie count of protein, protein has well over 5 calories per gram.
 

hawkmoon

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I was listening to Fouad's podcast with Jay Cutler yesterday.
Jay was convinced that his lower consumption of protein than others was at least partly responsible for his lack of a distended stomach.
He felt that too much protein slowed digestion and kept the abdomen full all the time.

I cannot say I disagree.
Besides my SIBO causing issues, I have always kept protein pretty high over the past several years - the same years that I have struggled with distention.
 

Gunsmith

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This is already calculated in the calorie count of protein, protein has well over 5 calories per gram.

When you work up a diet you use more than 4 calories per gram of protein??

I always thought that protein was actually less calories per gram due to it being hard to digest than carbs.
 

Kaladryn

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When you work up a diet you use more than 4 calories per gram of protein??

I always thought that protein was actually less calories per gram due to it being hard to digest than carbs.
No, 4 calories is what I use, but protein has around 5 to 5.5 calories per gram in it, but because it takes around 20-25% of those calories to digest, we count it as 4 calories per gram. So yes protein burns calories to digest, but that is already calculated in the calorie count.

The amount of calories in a gram of carbohydrates varies a lot too, it isn't just 4, it's more like 3-4.5 depending on the carbohyrate.

Plus this all assumes that you are digesting most of it, if for some reason you can't digest it well enough, the numbers can be lower.
 

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No, 4 calories is what I use, but protein has around 5 to 5.5 calories per gram in it, but because it takes around 20-25% of those calories to digest, we count it as 4 calories per gram. So yes protein burns calories to digest, but that is already calculated in the calorie count.

The amount of calories in a gram of carbohydrates varies a lot too, it isn't just 4, it's more like 3-4.5 depending on the carbohyrate.

Plus this all assumes that you are digesting most of it, if for some reason you can't digest it well enough, the numbers can be lower.


Protein is closer to 3 calories per gram. This is from Martin Berkhans book, The Leangains Method,

DIT: Protein

"Protein leads the way in body weight regulation, producing the greatest satiety and highest diet-induced thermogenesis of any macronutrient: a staggering 20 to 35 percent.56 It’s a large enough number that any reasonable person might propose counting protein grams as 3 calories instead of 4. That’s exactly what Dr. Geoffrey Livesey, one of the world’s leading authorities on metabolism and human nutrition, did during the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) meeting of the United Nations in 2001.57 There, experts on human nutrition gathered to discuss and improve our understanding of dietary issues, including the energy content of food. We need to take into account all the considerable knowledge we’ve learned since 1889 and start applying it. —Dr. Geoffrey Livesey Livesey suggested the prevailing and outdated concept of metabolizable energy be replaced by net metabolizable energy, a model superior in every way that—among other things—accounts for DIT. While there were no academic objections to Dr Livesey’s proposal, the administrative headache of pushing this through must’ve seemed daunting. After deliberating for two years, the FAO decided to stay with ME. (ref. 11) Why didn’t they take strides to publicly update and recalculate calories per the evidence of current science? Cost to the food industry of changing labels. The FAO was attempting to harmonize regulations across agencies worldwide. Introducing NME and replacing the latter would have slowed, or even dismantled, that process.58 The delay ultimately came down to expenditure, timing, and special interests—an unfortunate trifecta. No surprise—but an impetus, I suppose, for this book. Why is the DIT of protein so high? In short, protein contains nitrogen, which needs to be removed before amino acids can be put to use. Once amino acids are freed, they’re used for energy-demanding processes such as protein synthesis and de novo gluconeogenesis (DNG). Studies looking at the latter found 20 to 33 percent of calories from ingested protein were lost, depending on the nutritional state of subjects—20 percent when fed, and 33 percent when glycogen depleted (ref. 1,12). Indeed, the two biggest factors that affect the DIT of protein are protein synthesis and DNG. Initially, protein synthesis is responsible for two-thirds of the increase in energy expenditure. DNG largely makes up the other third. With time, however, this shifts into a more even split, as protein synthesis cannot remain elevated indefinitely. While there are several minor contributors to the DIT of protein, it’s fair to say it’s mainly caused by protein synthesis and DNG (ref. 12,26). It’s also worth mentioning that the DIT of protein differs slightly depending on food source. High-quality sources like meat, eggs, or dairy provide a different DIT compared to lower-quality protein (e.g., vegetables and grain products). In this context, the amino acid profile of the aforementioned foods determines the protein quality. Meat contains an abundance of essential amino acids, making it high quality, while proteins in vegetable and grain products do not. High-quality proteins therefore yield a higher DIT, but this is of negligible consequence in a diet containing a mix of protein sources. Flank steak is the king of the grill, but can also be enjoyed on a frying pan like any other meat. Just make sure the cut is not too thick. Since the DIT of protein varies depending on the physicality and habitual diet of the consumer, it’s not far-fetched to think weight training, which affects protein synthesis positively, also affects DIT. But the extent thereof remains speculative until research proves otherwise.59 Along with being the most thermogenic nutrient, protein is also the most satiating (ref. 1). While attempts to draw a direct link between satiety and DIT, implying the former causes the latter, have been made in theory, they’ve failed in practice (ref. 13,14). Indeed, the “filling” properties of protein are largely explained by its impact on peptide YY (PYY), an appetite-regulating hormone (ref. 13,14,15)."
 

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Another good read is, "How Much Protein" by Brad Pilon. Basically exercise is what makes protein "anabolic" as well as hormones to a degree, but most studies have found, even with steroids, 70 to 120 grams of protein was sufficient. As stated prior however, a higher protein diet goes a long way in providing satiety.
 

Kaladryn

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That isn't accurate and at best is based on incorrect assumptions that large amounts of protein go undigested (based on studies of feeding people who do not normally eat large amounts of protein a large single dose. Also, his suggestion that 20-35 may be accurate but it neglects the fact that protein starts with up to 5.5 (actually even a little more sometimes). The first sentence that suggests this sounds like whoever wrote the article and not the doctor, probably a misinterpretation.

I wrote an extensive thread about this 8 years ago: https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...lories-per-gram-of-protein.93792/post-1427591
 

Kaladryn

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