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I finally got my CT Scan & Calcium Score - Thanks Bio!

Reno911

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I can't believe they don't do VLDL and particle size on a standard lipid panel. It's just stupid.

Here's what you can do to get it close. Add your HDL & LDL and subtract that number from total cholesterol. That will give you your remnant. The remnant is a constituent in VLDL. Also you can take your triglyceride number and divide by 5 to get VLDL. Both of these aren't exact but will give you a decent ballpark.
 

Type-IIx

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Here's what you can do to get it close. Add your HDL & LDL and subtract that number from total cholesterol. That will give you your remnant. The remnant is a constituent in VLDL. Also you can take your triglyceride number and divide by 5 to get VLDL. Both of these aren't exact but will give you a decent ballpark.
The problem is that these are averages that assume the subject isn't doing something that could dramatically increase actual VLDL particles (such as use androgens).

On a related note, to something @thethinker48 said, the usefulness of Lp(a) for our population (androgen users) is questionable due to the observation that it seems to be either unchanged (neutral) or even lowered (improved) by androgens. It's unclear whether this actually reflects a favorable aspect of androgen effects on lipids, despite the overall unfavorable effect.
 

Pheedno

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My doctor has submitted a request 3 different ways and my insurance won't approve the scan. Its quite expensive in my neck of the woods without insurance.
 

marssel

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That one is $55. So you say Apo A1 is also significant? I usually just hear about Apo B. I'll have to get the combo next time.

I'm trying to get my Apo B down from 85. It's normal range but I think I could do better than that.

Yea I went to the lay site they have like 225 tests so I didn’t find this one or the VLDL yet but I will, what do they do send you a kit and you draw your own shit into tubes and mail back?
 

nothuman

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Yea I went to the lay site they have like 225 tests so I didn’t find this one or the VLDL yet but I will, what do they do send you a kit and you draw your own shit into tubes and mail back?
No you order the labs on the site and then they email you a requisition form to bring to LabCorp.
 

marssel

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Cool thanks for the reply
 

Reno911

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The problem is that these are averages that assume the subject isn't doing something that could dramatically increase actual VLDL particles (such as use androgens).

On a related note, to something @thethinker48 said, the usefulness of Lp(a) for our population (androgen users) is questionable due to the observation that it seems to be either unchanged (neutral) or even lowered (improved) by androgens. It's unclear whether this actually reflects a favorable aspect of androgen effects on lipids, despite the overall unfavorable effect.

I understand what your are saying and how that could skew it. I did however pull a few different labs where I had my VLDL checked and also used the calculation methods I mentioned and they were pretty close. Not exact but close enough. 1 test I was cruising and 2 others I was on.
 

marssel

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I understand what your are saying and how that could skew it. I did however pull a few different labs where I had my VLDL checked and also used the calculation methods I mentioned and they were pretty close. Not exact but close enough. 1 test I was cruising and 2 others I was on.
And all was good to go or at least not bad?
 

marssel

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They were 11, 13, and a higher one like 22 but still all fine.
Good to hear brother I think most of us are healthier than we fear fuck Cage telling me guys run 10,000 mg plus I was like ok wow I thought I was aggressive at times. Now I only get labs so far and 3 years off for fertility got me out of shape but guys like us are more common than the Bostin Loyds but bc we do this for ourselves and not attention we do shit smarte
 

whacked

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It's a really good indicator of total # of atherogenic particles

This is a really good study on using ApoB vs LDL cholestrol for all cause mortality in statin therapy:


Dr. Alan Sniderman's talk with Peter attia was really good on this subject; he discussed using ApoB and LpA (usually test this once since a subset of the population has this elevated) as two primary means of assessing atherogenic risk

He made a very good case for ApoB.

View attachment 154019

The more Apo B particles within the lumen of an artery, the higher the number that becomes trapped and become part of the inflammatory process.

I would def emphasize as much on this as LDL P. Usually LDL C and LDL P are concordant in their relationship with one another, which is why ignoring a really high LDL number isn't a wise thing. But in the discordant group where the particle count can is disproportionate to the total count, it becomes almost a useless number without factoring in the other half

Loaded question but need help.

Not happy w recent bloodwork.

My LDL small particle size is very high 322 normal is <142), and Apo-B is slightly high 102 (<90). LipoA is
solid / normal at 10 (<75).

Tri’s 67
HDL 62
(So my Tri/HDL=1.08 so pretty good)
Total Chol 205
Total LDL 127

Pissed bc I don’t eat crap food! I take a lot of “healthy” supps that should either have a direct or indirect impact via insulin sensitivity (Fish oil, Berberine, etc), don’t touch crappy vegetable oils, I pay an arm & a leg for “legit” EVOO (lots of fakes out there) and drink it (don’t heat it), use copious amounts of monounsaturated fats via Avocado Oil daily, do light cardio 5 days, train 4-5 days/week, and I’ve been off cycles for at least a year (TRT).

I’m a low carb guy (keto at times), I eat a lot of greens daily, sleep 8-8.5 hours/day, and eat pretty darn healthy.

Other notes:

-Stress levels suck at times
-1,000 of Metformin XR
-40 mg of Telmisartan
-5 mg of Nebivolol
-I don’t drink or smoke

My results are just as crappy as when I run gear. So pissed.

What can I do to address these bad values. Thanks in advance!
 

Bio

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Loaded question but need help.

Not happy w recent bloodwork.

My LDL small particle size is very high 322 normal is <142), and Apo-B is slightly high 102 (<90). LipoA is
solid / normal at 10 (<75).

Tri’s 67
HDL 62
(So my Tri/HDL=1.08 so pretty good)
Total Chol 205
Total LDL 127

Pissed bc I don’t eat crap food! I take a lot of “healthy” supps that should either have a direct or indirect impact via insulin sensitivity (Fish oil, Berberine, etc), don’t touch crappy vegetable oils, I pay an arm & a leg for “legit” EVOO (lots of fakes out there) and drink it (don’t heat it), use copious amounts of monounsaturated fats via Avocado Oil daily, do light cardio 5 days, train 4-5 days/week, and I’ve been off cycles for at least a year (TRT).

I’m a low carb guy (keto at times), I eat a lot of greens daily, sleep 8-8.5 hours/day, and eat pretty darn healthy.

Other notes:

-Stress levels suck at times
-1,000 of Metformin XR
-40 mg of Telmisartan
-5 mg of Nebivolol
-I don’t drink or smoke
low
My results are just as crappy as when I run gear. So pissed.

What can I do to address these bad values. Thanks in advance!

Interesting. Usually keto diets result in higher large particle LDL. As we age things change. Maybe you should try a high protein, moderate carb, low fat diet and see how the numbers look.

Don't forget to look into https://cleerlyhealth.com/ for a comprehensive review of your cardiovascular health!
 

Reno911

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-I don’t drink or smoke

My results are just as crappy as when I run gear. So pissed.

What can I do to address these bad values. Thanks in advance!

I know for me personally my lipids look the best on low fat. On "bodybuilding keto" when I've pulled labs my total and LDL are significantly higher and my particle test numbers are about the same. The only benefit is a bump in HDL but then my LDL is about 75% higher so not worth the trade off.
 

buck

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Loaded question but need help.

Not happy w recent bloodwork.

My LDL small particle size is very high 322 normal is <142), and Apo-B is slightly high 102 (<90). LipoA is
solid / normal at 10 (<75).

Tri’s 67
HDL 62
(So my Tri/HDL=1.08 so pretty good)
Total Chol 205
Total LDL 127

Pissed bc I don’t eat crap food! I take a lot of “healthy” supps that should either have a direct or indirect impact via insulin sensitivity (Fish oil, Berberine, etc), don’t touch crappy vegetable oils, I pay an arm & a leg for “legit” EVOO (lots of fakes out there) and drink it (don’t heat it), use copious amounts of monounsaturated fats via Avocado Oil daily, do light cardio 5 days, train 4-5 days/week, and I’ve been off cycles for at least a year (TRT).

I’m a low carb guy (keto at times), I eat a lot of greens daily, sleep 8-8.5 hours/day, and eat pretty darn healthy.

Other notes:

-Stress levels suck at times
-1,000 of Metformin XR
-40 mg of Telmisartan
-5 mg of Nebivolol
-I don’t drink or smoke

My results are just as crappy as when I run gear. So pissed.

What can I do to address these bad values. Thanks in advance!
My lipid, BP, glucose levels have always been pretty low. Eat healthy all my life work out aerobics. Living life the way it is recommended other then cycling AS and my calcium score is high. some times life just sucks. And modern medicine does not have even close to all the answers.
 

marssel

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Loaded question but need help.

Not happy w recent bloodwork.

My LDL small particle size is very high 322 normal is <142), and Apo-B is slightly high 102 (<90). LipoA is
solid / normal at 10 (<75).

Tri’s 67
HDL 62
(So my Tri/HDL=1.08 so pretty good)
Total Chol 205
Total LDL 127

Pissed bc I don’t eat crap food! I take a lot of “healthy” supps that should either have a direct or indirect impact via insulin sensitivity (Fish oil, Berberine, etc), don’t touch crappy vegetable oils, I pay an arm & a leg for “legit” EVOO (lots of fakes out there) and drink it (don’t heat it), use copious amounts of monounsaturated fats via Avocado Oil daily, do light cardio 5 days, train 4-5 days/week, and I’ve been off cycles for at least a year (TRT).

I’m a low carb guy (keto at times), I eat a lot of greens daily, sleep 8-8.5 hours/day, and eat pretty darn healthy.

Other notes:

-Stress levels suck at times
-1,000 of Metformin XR
-40 mg of Telmisartan
-5 mg of Nebivolol
-I don’t drink or smoke

My results are just as crappy as when I run gear. So pissed.

What can I do to address these bad values. Thanks in advance!
So you’re totally natural and these are your labs? Also your hdl is great as you said and your ldl is a tad high but again you’re ratios look good. Sure always strive for better but you look pretty solid to me.
 

whacked

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Messages
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So you’re totally natural and these are your labs? Also your hdl is great as you said and your ldl is a tad high but again you’re ratios look good. Sure always strive for better but you look pretty solid to me.

Thanks for chiming in to help.

I’m not totally natural as I’ve cycled for many years but I’m off now and have been for awhile.

Busting my ass to be healthy so was disappointed that my LDL particle size and ApoB was mehhh

Thanks
 

marssel

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Thanks for chiming in to help.

I’m not totally natural as I’ve cycled for many years but I’m off now and have been for awhile.

Busting my ass to be healthy so was disappointed that my LDL particle size and ApoB was mehhh

Thanks
Yea I get that and I was trying to help, youre numbers are better than most so what you’re doing is working is what I was getting at. Remember there’s a genetic component to cholesterol so you may be close to your limit which trust me a lot of us woukd be happy with your numbers. When I said natural I wasn’t saying it as a joke most consider being off for awhile as being “natty” again. As to particle size help I would think oddly focusing on liver health along with what you’re already doing well with might help. We often overlook the liver in lipid metabolism but it’s the heart of the matter.
 

buck

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As a side note i went to a cardiologist yesterday to discuss all my test, calcium, stress test, CT echocardiogram, which only really showed a high calcium score even though i have naturally had LDL of 75-95 usually around 80 for decades. With my last 2 years of LDL being 75 and the cardiologist wanted to start me on statins to lower my LDL down to 70. So i asked him and had asked the last cardiologist how much longer on average do people live on statins as opposed to those not taking them and they had no information on longevity. The small studies i have seen show very little improvement on longevity. From what i remember when companies started pushing Dr.s to prescribe Lipitor at 80mg to lower peoples cholesterol level even more then their starting 10-20 mg dose. Cholesterol and heart attack rates went down. Yet life span was shorter on average as more people in the study group died from cancer as well as some other things, which may not have been due to the statin. I wish pharmaceutical companies would do more studies on longevity in regard to their products as that is the most important thing to me. Just looking at one factor such as heart attack may not tell the whole story. But doing such a study could lower the profits if people choose not to take it due to side effects.
 

marssel

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As a side note i went to a cardiologist yesterday to discuss all my test, calcium, stress test, CT echocardiogram, which only really showed a high calcium score even though i have naturally had LDL of 75-95 usually around 80 for decades. With my last 2 years of LDL being 75 and the cardiologist wanted to start me on statins to lower my LDL down to 70. So i asked him and had asked the last cardiologist how much longer on average do people live on statins as opposed to those not taking them and they had no information on longevity. The small studies i have seen show very little improvement on longevity. From what i remember when companies started pushing Dr.s to prescribe Lipitor at 80mg to lower peoples cholesterol level even more then their starting 10-20 mg dose. Cholesterol and heart attack rates went down. Yet life span was shorter on average as more people in the study group died from cancer as well as some other things, which may not have been due to the statin. I wish pharmaceutical companies would do more studies on longevity in regard to their products as that is the most important thing to me. Just looking at one factor such as heart attack may not tell the whole story. But doing such a study could lower the profits if people choose not to take it due to side effects.
I missed the part in your post where you said your Calicum score was high. I now see why you are so focused on ldl size even though your labs are good. Did you say ur age? I still believe there’s a genetic component to it as lots of guys on here went in expecting a high score and got a 0 as well as guys like Nick Walker who is young yes but a 0, has to be more to it than just drug use and BP etc. at the end of the day if you’re eating clean and most of all doing fasted AM cardio that stresses ur heart it should keep ur pumped healthy and there are a lot of people myself included who believe in the ACV, lemon (optional imo), and tumeric for keeping the pipes clean. Maybe try the ACV and water 3 times per day. It’s not bad I’ve had a lot of unexpected good sides and it’s cheap.
 

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