Insulin use by Ry

[DIEZEL666]

Ry, you recommend insulin being used only 2x's a week (mon and thurs). Does this change if the same bodypart is worked both days? Thanks.

 

[Ry Roid]

No change!!

Wylde actually taught me this and I LOVE using it only 2 times a week. Usually it works out that I am working out one the Monday and Thursday I do shots but, it doesn't matter really.

RY

 

[PUMPED]

how long do you stay on for? I am doing 2 times a weeks myself (quads and calf day and hams and calf days) because they are my week points. I was just going to do 4 weeks on 4 off. I train in the early AM so I can only do post workout injections at 15ius

sound good of do you have a better idea?

 

[Ry Roid]

Granted insulin shuttles the nutrients into the muscles but, I don't think that for example doing it after training a weak area will make that area better.

Ry

 

[raybravo]

spot injecting insulin seems to have a localised igf-1 increase ry , why do u say shooting that muscle on the training day is useless ?

 

[big_byrd52]

Ray, could you post some info on this for me? im going to bed, and too tired to look.

 

[raybravo]

this study below shows there is some localised igf-1 response ...i'm still not convinced about the whole thing .

Regulation and action of insulin-like growth factors at the cellular level
L S Phillips, J B Harp, S Goldstein, C I Pao
Proceedings of the Nutrition Society , 49(3):451-458 1990

Present understanding of IGF-1 as a growth factor mediating integration of nutritional-hormonal interactions indicates that IGF-1 acts in both an endocrine mode on distant targets and an autocrine-paracrine mode on local targets. In the liver, the combined presence of GH, insulin, and critical metabolic fuels such as essential amino acids results in increased levels of IGF-1 messenger RNA, increased production of a high-MW IGF-1 precursor, and increased release of IGF-1 into the circulation, permitting action on distant target tissues bearing specific receptors for IGF-1. The net effect is distant amplification of anabolic hormone action via IGF-1 acting in an endocrine mode. In extrahepatic tissues, both 'general' anabolic hormones (insulin and GH) as well as 'specific' hormones (e.g. gonadotropins) acting on a wide variety of targets (including fibroblasts and chondrocytes as well as granulosa and Leydig cells) promote both local secretion of IGF-1 and an increase in IGF-1 receptors. Local actions of IGF-1 then result in a secondary increase in both hormone receptors and hormone responses. The net effect is local amplification of hormone action via IGF-1 acting as a growth factor in an autocrine-paracrine mode.

 

[Queefer]

If insulin helps force the protein into the muscles, why would it be better to use it only twice a week instead of after each workout, unless using it more then 2x makes you less sensitive to it. I use it after every workout with the rationale that I want to get the maximum out of each and every workout. This usually works out to Mon. Tues. Thurs. Fri. I've only been using it a few months, so I don't have enough experience to know exactly what works for my body.

 

[MikeS]

If insulin helps force the protein into the muscles, why would it be better to use it only twice a week instead of after each workout, unless using it more then 2x makes you less sensitive to it. I use it after every workout with the rationale that I want to get the maximum out of each and every workout. This usually works out to Mon. Tues. Thurs. Fri. I've only been using it a few months, so I don't have enough experience to know exactly what works for my body.

Because you become insulin resistance from the standard 'old school' dosing of 1-2x ED; So IMO the idea is to do it as much as you can without becoming insulin resistant. I did 4x wk post workout and it worked very fine - and kept working (ie-no insulin resistance). Not disputing my bro's (Ry/Wyldes) theories, just a veriation on that, as the original idea is great. Its just I think you can administer it more without developing resistance, and more is much better in this case.

 

[raybravo]

to deal with the insulin insenstivity after a while , normally , ive found that if people lower carbs immediately after a insulin cycle , helps them very well .
and if r worried about it on the cycle , ofcourse u have avandia or metoformin to use , i wud prefer avandia as there wont be any lactic acid around like with metformin .

 

[big_byrd52]

Does anyone know how long it takes for receptors to downregulate?

I believe this theory is more practical for re-loading the muscles with glycogen once or twice a week to keep strength and fullness.

while the ED dosing is aimed more at increasing protien synthesis,
and halting catabolism.

opinions?

 

[raybravo]

insulin doesnt seem to promote protein synthesis , it only stops amino acid break down , plenty of studies on this on cem , check it out big byrd .

 

[big_byrd52]

wrong choice of words perhaps, i am refering to the transfer of AA into the muscle.

I was on CEM the other day, and also remember ur post on chad's board questioning his theory.

usage for glycogen replenishment mainly, (1-2 xs weekly) opposed to ED(AA transfer). These are the main differences i see in Chad and Milos' theories.

 

[BIGKIWI]

I have been using insulin for nearly 5 years and still use about the same dose as when Istarted I don't think that Insulin downregulates

 

[Dave_19]

how long do you stay on for? I am doing 2 times a weeks myself (quads and calf day and hams and calf days) because they are my week points. I was just going to do 4 weeks on 4 off. I train in the early AM so I can only do post workout injections at 15ius

sound good of do you have a better idea?

Im new to slin can someone recap on this, from my research i read injectiosn were usually in pinched fat from thigh or stomache area... people also do Intramuscular injections???? or am i just confused if so, what is done differently as far as carbing up. maning would u wait longer/shorter different amount, ect..

 

[big_byrd52]

insulin can be given sub-q, intermuscular, or I.V.

sub-q being the slowest absorbtion with a smaller peak. IM is a little faster with more spike, and IV is the fastest delivery method with greatest peak concentration, of course, its out of your system faster as well.

im sure that Ray has the peak timing chart tucked away somewhere if he'll post it.

 

[Ry Roid]

spot injecting insulin seems to have a localised igf-1 increase ry , why do u say shooting that muscle on the training day is useless ? [/QUOTE

Never said it was useless but, I believe it is a theory that works more on paper than anything. Just like people say GH gives them localized fat loss. Hard to say that it is helping. Also, you can throw all the studies in the world at me but, I just am giving my opinion on what works for me and guys I train.

RY

 

[BIGKIWI]

I do all my insulin shots im in delt and quad , find if do shots sub-q hold alot more fat and water

 

[raybravo]

Never said it was useless but, I believe it is a theory that works more on paper than anything. Just like people say GH gives them localized fat loss. Hard to say that it is helping. Also, you can throw all the studies in the world at me but, I just am giving my opinion on what works for me and guys I train.

RY

yeah i understand what ure saying bro , and it wud be silly if a 240 pound guy tries to convince a 300 odd pound guy that my method is right and ure wrong . lol . got a long way to go before i get to ur stage man .

 

[MikeS]

Does anyone know how long it takes for receptors to downregulate?

I believe this theory is more practical for re-loading the muscles with glycogen once or twice a week to keep strength and fullness.

while the ED dosing is aimed more at increasing protien synthesis,
and halting catabolism.

opinions?

I figure the factors in downregulation are:
1. dosing regularity
2. genetics
3. age

I would not mix the metformin in on days you are using the slin-just so noone misunderstands. This can cause a diaster.