Keep things simple...

[w8tlifterty]

I was over reading at intense today various old post... there is a ton of good info over there and very knowledgeable guys.
There seems to be an influx of newer guys here so I thought I'd share this post by pjr from that forum. Really good advice in my opinion--

Originally Posted by pjr
A couple of things to point out -

First off, limit your lifts. I don't care what anyone says, you don't need to do a bunch of lifts. Period. Pick out 5-7 big lifts you want to get strong as heck on and do THOSE. Forget the fluff. Split it up over 3x a week and eat lots and lots of food. For the first 2 weeks, keep the reps in the 10-12 range, then move into 2 weeks of 8's. After that, 3 weeks of 5's, 2 weeks of 2's then do 2 weeks of singles. That's a 10 week cycle guarenteed to up your strength and mass levels.

What lifts? It's pretty obvious IMO.

Squats -
Deads or a variation -
A Row -
Bench -
Standing Press -
Dips and Chins

That's 7 lifts. IMO if you got as strong as possible on those 7 lifts you would be as big as you would ever get. End of story.

You can do your split how you want. I do squats and deads on the same day because it works. On the other day I do a press and the dips and chins a lot of times. That's it. I'm not sure what else you need to do. Eat a bunch of food and get big.

Keep meals very clean and wholesome and I think this is great advice... eat based on activity level for that specific day (hunger, you should be eating more on higher activity days and less on 'off' days).

So simple, yet so effective.

Vets, what do you think. I think this is what many of you preach in a nutshell. Keep things uncomplicated and progress both in the kitchen and at the gym.

Obviously, this would be geared more towards novice lifters but very solid info...

 

[mountaindog1]

Hey w8t - how have you been. Still slamming your liver!!!

I think this is good advice for novices. As one advances it isn't so simple, and my opinion is that the body eventually adapts to everything and anything u throw at it, so at some point you have to get a bit creative to keep the gains coming..but again, yes great advice for novices.

JM

 

[robot]

Hey w8t - how have you been. Still slamming your liver!!!

I think this is good advice for novices. As one advances it isn't so simple, and my opinion is that the body eventually adapts to everything and anything u throw at it, so at some point you have to get a bit creative to keep the gains coming..but again, yes great advice for novices.

JM

The only real creativity required is adding more weight to the bar, eating enough and programming these lifts so you don't overtrain.

Well not completely, I have found accessory work like GM's have helped my squat but a focus on the big lifts is fundamental. The bodybuilding magazines and books seem to have a real problem coming up with "new" articles so they publish all sorts of useless shit.

Wendler's 5-3-1, Starting Strength, Intermediate and Advanced Versions of 5x5, DC. There's plenty of clear examples that the best programs for novices, intermediates and advanced lifters focus on a few big lifts.

 

[mountaindog1]

The only real creativity required is adding more weight to the bar, eating enough and programming these lifts so you don't overtrain.

Well not completely, I have found accessory work like GM's have helped my squat but a focus on the big lifts is fundamental. The bodybuilding magazines and books seem to have a real problem coming up with "new" articles so they publish all sorts of useless shit.

Wendler's 5-3-1, Starting Strength, Intermediate and Advanced Versions of 5x5, DC. There's plenty of clear examples that the best programs for novices, intermediates and advanced lifters focus on a few big lifts.

So every single workout you do you just add weight huh..you think that is sustainable long term, and also that your tendons and ligaments can handle that?

JM

 

[w8tlifterty]

Hey w8t - how have you been. Still slamming your liver!!!

I think this is good advice for novices. As one advances it isn't so simple, and my opinion is that the body eventually adapts to everything and anything u throw at it, so at some point you have to get a bit creative to keep the gains coming..but again, yes great advice for novices.

JM

Hey John, yes I should have probably posted this in the beg. forum. The basic jist of his post rings true tho. As one progresses, things will certainly have to change in some degree or another...

And yes, still putting down copious amounts of liver. I recently had a hunting buddy kill me a deer. Ever had deer liver, it is a bit different, I prefer cow or calf to it but cant beat $125 bucks for roughly 70lbs a meat.

 

[mountaindog1]

Hey John, yes I should have probably posted this in the beg. forum. The basic jist of his post rings true tho. As one progresses, things will certainly have to change in some degree or another...

And yes, still putting down copious amounts of liver. I recently had a hunting buddy kill me a deer. Ever had deer liver, it is a bit different, I prefer cow or calf to it but cant beat $125 bucks for roughly 70lbs a meat.

Cool, and dear meat is a very good meat...I haven't read much about dear liver...not sure if it loaded with Vitamin A and B12 like beef liver..will have to look that up!!

Take it easy bro..

JM

 

[robot]

So every single workout you do you just add weight huh..you think that is sustainable long term, and also that your tendons and ligaments can handle that?

JM

Pleae reread my post. I did not say every single workout you add weight. I said "add weight". I also noted "programming" - this is the application of phases, loading, deloading to your workout cycles.

I cited programs that provide clear detail of exactly how to do so that have been proven out by the best strength coaches,football teams, bodybuilders, powerlifters and general strong guys for the last 50 years or so.

I suppose that wasn't clear enough for you.

Oh well. Please feel free to carry on.

 

[b-boy]

Pleae reread my post. I did not say every single workout you add weight. I said "add weight". I also noted "programming" - this is the application of phases, loading, deloading to your workout cycles.

I cited programs that provide clear detail of exactly how to do so that have been proven out by the best strength coaches,football teams, bodybuilders, powerlifters and general strong guys for the last 50 years or so.

I suppose that wasn't clear enough for you.

Oh well. Please feel free to carry on.

so how has this type of lifting worked out for YOU? by all means robot post a pic and show us, ive seen mountaindog1's pics.

and yes i do believe in heavy progressive lifting, but as you advance i believe a few things need to be tweaked.

 

[b-boy]

Hey w8t - how have you been. Still slamming your liver!!!

I think this is good advice for novices. As one advances it isn't so simple, and my opinion is that the body eventually adapts to everything and anything u throw at it, so at some point you have to get a bit creative to keep the gains coming..but again, yes great advice for novices.

JM

i have found this to be very true. i love DC training but shit me i have been lifting for so dam long that my joints wear out very fast and i find myself having to cruise way more than i am blasting these days. So i have had to get more creative in my lifting to keep the gains slowly coming.

 

[robot]

so how has this type of lifting worked out for YOU? by all means robot post a pic and show us, ive seen mountaindog1's pics.

Starting Strength, Intermediate 5x5, and DC have worked extremely well for me. As they have for most everyone who has ever used them.

Are you suggesting that these programs are not examples of simple focus on compound lifts that generate excellent strength at novice, intermediate and advanced levels?

Or are you suggesting that adding fluff to these types of programs would be more effective and the best strength coaches in the world are just dumb?

It's not entirely clear to me what you are asking or hoping that my pictures might prove or disprove. If you don't like my pictures will this prove that Starr, Dante, Wendler, Tate, Pendlay, Rippetoe are fundamentally wrong in their exercise selection or programming?

 

[b-boy]

Starting Strength, Intermediate 5x5, and DC have worked extremely well for me. As they have for most everyone who has ever used them.

Are you suggesting that these programs are not examples of simple focus on compound lifts that generate excellent strength at novice, intermediate and advanced levels?

Or are you suggesting that adding fluff to these types of programs would be more effective and the best strength coaches in the world are just dumb?

It's not entirely clear to me what you are asking or hoping that my pictures might prove or disprove. If you don't like my pictures will this prove that Starr, Dante, Wendler, Tate, Pendlay, Rippetoe are fundamentally wrong in their exercise selection or programming?

if you are 6ft6 180lbs then it shows this type of lifting obviously didn't work for you and you need to look into trying a different approach, thats what im saying. Obviously what john was getting at has worked for "HIM" and may not work for others, but you need to be willing to step back sometimes and evaluate what your doing and ask yourself is this working for me, or am i even putting 100% into this type of program to get the most out of it. and yes your pic will prove that point. I have tried many methods (I love DC training) but im willing to switch out some H.I.T. training for some volume training sometimes to get a growth response, im never stuck on a certain 1 track mind frame.

 

[Shelby]

Starting Strength, Intermediate 5x5, and DC have worked extremely well for me. As they have for most everyone who has ever used them.

Are you suggesting that these programs are not examples of simple focus on compound lifts that generate excellent strength at novice, intermediate and advanced levels?

Or are you suggesting that adding fluff to these types of programs would be more effective and the best strength coaches in the world are just dumb?

It's not entirely clear to me what you are asking or hoping that my pictures might prove or disprove. If you don't like my pictures will this prove that Starr, Dante, Wendler, Tate, Pendlay, Rippetoe are fundamentally wrong in their exercise selection or programming?

You are talking about training for strength, while mountaindog and bboy are talking about training for hypertrophy.

They are related, but not the same.

Of the names you mentioned above, only one is 100% focused on size and that is Dante. The rest are 100% focused on improving strength in the basic lifts.

Apples and oranges, at least at the advanced level.

 

[MrCyp]

DC is great but it can be frustrating reading all the new stuff at IM. Its awesome that they provide all the info but sometimes I get lost in it and keep thinking "shit, well if i do this that maybe that will happen, or if I do that, that will happen,etc.." Lately I just gave up and said F it. As long as I keep progressing in the log book and picking sticking to exercises that I can feel working then all the crazy stuff isnt needed. Sometimes I forget to do my static holds, or sometimes I dont wanna do them. Sometimes I dont stretch as long as I can, but I just always make sure i've been going super heavy and progressing and my results keep progressing. but lately now my dilema is the negatives. After watching shelbys video and hearing dusty talk about how he grew a ton off negatives, ive dropped my weight on a few exercies and been focusing on a good 3-4sec negative with an explosive upward movement. The log book suffered a little but im sure better results will come.

 

[robot]

I'm 5'9 235 @ ~16% and about to start dieting down.

Whether it be HIT or Volume, I think the original posters point is entirely relevant. A manageable set of the big compounds puts meat on the bones.

If you are hitting your head on your genetic limits of strength and size, it's hard to wave a magic wand and make that limit go away. If the proven methods aren't working, bullshit methods are likely not going to either. The ab-roller or weiders million sets of pumping just won't do it although they might let you recover from overtraining and let you grow again.

I am envious of your situation although I can understand the frustration. I'm sure you've read bompa's periodization stuff and all the russian text on periodization already so I won't pretend to advise you but I think the original post is extremely relevant to all levels of strength.

 

[mountaindog1]

 

[robot]

Cool, and dear meat is a very good meat...I haven't read much about dear liver...not sure if it loaded with Vitamin A and B12 like beef liver..will have to look that up!!

Take it easy bro..

JM

If you have the chance try Elk. Deer tends to be mostly good for sausage but elk makes for some amazing steaks and roasts.

 

[betito]

If you go for Hipertrophy you should think about this:
there are 4 parts in a movement: eccentric, stretch, positive, squeeze. The ones that provide the biggest growth stimulation are the eccentric and the stretch. Knowing that we are looking to build muscle the most efficient way (the smallest weight that can gives you the biggest possible stimulation) we must look for a tempo that includes slow negs and accentuated stretches because they build more muscle than the other segments of the movement (of course the deep stretch with a pause it´s not always practical or safe but you can always do a weighted stretch after you finish or look for exercises that allow you to do it in a safe manner). Then we increase the weight keeping that "maximun growth stimulating tempo", how much? the bigger weight increase every workout that allows us to keep the number of reps, they all go hand in hand, overload keeping tempo, form and reps, the only thing that will eventualy go down is reps(and it´s not what we want, so fight to keep at your rep range that should be at least 6-10 reps), everything else must only go up. This is the base of DC, but it´s apliable to any workout sistem.