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Ketones in pre workout help

LEX

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So can someone please break this down for me.

I am not in ketosis. I have mostly full glycogen levels. I am not on metformin. I eat high protein, mod carb, mod fat. I eat an hour before my workout.

Then I drink a pre workout with aminios and BHB's in it. Now I am to believe that my body is not using glucose now but I am using the BHB's as my energy source?
How is this so? how can you prove this?
 

ferd

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So can someone please break this down for me.

I am not in ketosis. I have mostly full glycogen levels. I am not on metformin. I eat high protein, mod carb, mod fat. I eat an hour before my workout.

Then I drink a pre workout with aminios and BHB's in it. Now I am to believe that my body is not using glucose now but I am using the BHB's as my energy source?
How is this so? how can you prove this?
Probably too much protein and not enough fat. gluconeogenesis.
 
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LEX

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devenidas

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Lex mate these exogenous ketone products are all BS productions.

If you take them and say get your blood tested you will show ketones in blood doesnt mean your body is ACTUALLY producing ketones same as if you were truly in ketosis from not having carbs or having trace carbs. Lot of companies are coming out with these ketones products which are deceiving and gimmicky.

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NY Muscle

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Gluconeogenesis is not a supply driven process. Its demand driven. it goes on all the time and you're not going to be able to influence it with your protein intake. There may be a concern if you're diabetic but even then I would argue its not to worry about.

There is not a single study in humans (and none in rats/frogs/pigs/et that I'm aware of) which indicate too much protein does anything but spike blood glucose moderately. The only study I've seen that tested both insulin and glucagon indicates that the I/G ratio is preserved, meaning the BG spike and too much protein, does not "kick you out of ketosis."

To test this theory I consumed between 450 to 500 grams of protein a day for 5 days I also did Ketone blood testing 8 to 10 times a day and never did I have any issues with blood glucose levels as well as Ketone levels and maintained ketosis easily for the whole testing. Again this protein and gluconeogenesis stuff is nothing more than a Loch Ness monster of the keto world.

That being said if you consume exogenous Ketone products near your workout then it makes sense it is going to be the fuel source your body's going to use.

Though if fat loss is a goal you definitely don't want to be consuming exogenous Ketones.



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LEX

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Gluconeogenesis is not a supply driven process. Its demand driven. it goes on all the time and you're not going to be able to influence it with your protein intake. There may be a concern if you're diabetic but even then I would argue its not to worry about.

There is not a single study in humans (and none in rats/frogs/pigs/et that I'm aware of) which indicate too much protein does anything but spike blood glucose moderately. The only study I've seen that tested both insulin and glucagon indicates that the I/G ratio is preserved, meaning the BG spike and too much protein, does not "kick you out of ketosis."

To test this theory I consumed between 450 to 500 grams of protein a day for 5 days I also did Ketone blood testing 8 to 10 times a day and never did I have any issues with blood glucose levels as well as Ketone levels and maintained ketosis easily for the whole testing. Again this protein and gluconeogenesis stuff is nothing more than a Loch Ness monster of the keto world.

That being said if you consume exogenous Ketone products near your workout then it makes sense it is going to be the fuel source your body's going to use.

Though if fat loss is a goal you definitely don't want to be consuming exogenous Ketones.



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1-But I have glycogen available,
2-If I take oral bhb and test it will show ketone bodies but does that mean I am metabolizing them
 

johnnyboy

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I had a young guy, probably 20, selling these Ketone drinks at one of the business expos I produced. He was stoked on them, he was an over weight kid that dropped a few pounds drinking this stuff.

My buddy who owns a gym and has competed a few times was set up beside the kid and was 100% against drinking this stuff.

My take on most stuff is to sit back and watch for a while, so I'm interested in this thread. Seems like there is no gray area on drinking Ketones, either you love it and its the best thing or its the worst thing in the world.
 

thebarbarian

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So can someone please break this down for me.

I am not in ketosis. I have mostly full glycogen levels. I am not on metformin. I eat high protein, mod carb, mod fat. I eat an hour before my workout.

Then I drink a pre workout with aminios and BHB's in it. Now I am to believe that my body is not using glucose now but I am using the BHB's as my energy source?
How is this so? how can you prove this?
I think the question is rather, "what part of your body is using the BHBs as the energy source?" Apparently, BHBs are used by the brain, saving you glucose stores to fuel your workout. I'd take this with a huge grain of salt because it seems to be mostly supported by anecdotal evidence about more focus/less mental fog.

The few studies I saw on the use of exogenous ketones were mostly in endurance athletes if I recall correctly. I don't know that endurance athletes and bodybuilders/powerlifters would use BHBs taken preworkout as fuel sources in the same manner (nevermind the differences in diet/supplements).

I'd love to hear Dr. Stevenson's take on the matter.:D
 

OutToLunch

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I think the question is rather, "what part of your body is using the BHBs as the energy source?" Apparently, BHBs are used by the brain, saving you glucose stores to fuel your workout. I'd take this with a huge grain of salt because it seems to be mostly supported by anecdotal evidence about more focus/less mental fog.



The few studies I saw on the use of exogenous ketones were mostly in endurance athletes if I recall correctly. I don't know that endurance athletes and bodybuilders/powerlifters would use BHBs taken preworkout as fuel sources in the same manner (nevermind the differences in diet/supplements).



I'd love to hear Dr. Stevenson's take on the matter.:D


He debunked it on one of the podcasts he's done recently.
 

mountaindog1

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People are snowballing you - the getting into ketosis with a drink thing anyway.

Personally I think they are a great energy source WHEN YOU ARE DEPLETED, DIETING HARD, etc. You can feel them kick in, in about 30 minutes. It is really noticeable.

But all this drink BHB salts and you magically go into ketosis is not sound scientifically.

I used these alot last year before I decided to incorporate them into a product...they are a lifesaver when you are beat down, but if you are eating good, balanced..etc...It is not a good use.

JM
 

warlock

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People are snowballing you - the getting into ketosis with a drink thing anyway.

Personally I think they are a great energy source WHEN YOU ARE DEPLETED, DIETING HARD, etc. You can feel them kick in, in about 30 minutes. It is really noticeable.

But all this drink BHB salts and you magically go into ketosis is not sound scientifically.

I used these alot last year before I decided to incorporate them into a product...they are a lifesaver when you are beat down, but if you are eating good, balanced..etc...It is not a good use.

JM

John,

How about in the off-season when one is eating enough, but one specific day one feels tired due to lack of sleep, stress or similar...Would ketones be a good idea in this particular case to use as a pre-workout boost?
 

LEX

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People are snowballing you - the getting into ketosis with a drink thing anyway.

Personally I think they are a great energy source WHEN YOU ARE DEPLETED, DIETING HARD, etc. You can feel them kick in, in about 30 minutes. It is really noticeable.

But all this drink BHB salts and you magically go into ketosis is not sound scientifically.

I used these alot last year before I decided to incorporate them into a product...they are a lifesaver when you are beat down, but if you are eating good, balanced..etc...It is not a good use.

JM

So John I was hoping you would chime in.
In your opinion then I would have to have low glycogen stores, obviously low blood glucose levels, even better on metformin. Then you are saying in that state, the BHB's are burned as an energy source even though you aren't keto adapted or even in ketosis over breaking down aminos either taken with product or from proteins breaking down?
 

DarkBeast

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They definitely have their place but I hate how all of a sudden everyone is producing them and everybody thinks its some kind of magic way to get lean
 

G.I.Bro

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In keto now. I use BHB and MCT oil in my preworkout with BCAA when I want a boost of energy/fuel in place of carbs or feel run down (before legs for example).

Legit ketone salts are expensive (KetoCana, etc). The companies making products with BHB (like BPI) are using like 3-5g and most of the top guys researching and producing in this area (Pat Arnold) are recommending a 10-12g payload to benefit. This is still pricey compared to other raws so it's not a cheap addition. Keto Enthusiasts will want to buy BHB bulk and add it. Sprinkling 3g of BHB in your "keto preworkout" is more marketing than science in most of these new products I'm seeing.

As many have stated, these don't put you in ketosis faster. They are an alternative fuel source. Pissing out more ketones from drinking them is different then getting your body into legit ketosis. If you're not in keto and wanting to stay there, these products are a waste.

Fatties buying keto preworkouts and don't even know what ketosis is, gotta love it.
 
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suppdude

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John,



How about in the off-season when one is eating enough, but one specific day one feels tired due to lack of sleep, stress or similar...Would ketones be a good idea in this particular case to use as a pre-workout boost?
I wouldn't think so IMO. Other things to incorporate if feeling sluggish, high stress, or other factors.

In keto now. I use BHB and MCT oil in my preworkout with BCAA when I want a boost of energy/fuel in place of carbs or feel run down (before legs for example).

Legit ketone salts are expensive (KetoCana, etc). The companies making products with BHB (like BPI) are using like 3-5g and most of the top guys researching and producing in this area (Pat Arnold) are recommending a 10-12g payload to benefit. This is still pricey compared to other raws so it's not a cheap addition. Keto Enthusiasts will want to buy BHB bulk and add it. Sprinkling 3g of BHB in your "keto preworkout" is more marketing than science in most of these new products I'm seeing.

As many have stated, these don't put you in ketosis faster. They are an alternative fuel source. Pissing out more ketones from drinking them is different then getting your body into legit ketosis. If you're not in keto and wanting to stay there, these products are a waste.

Fatties buying keto preworkouts and don't even know what ketosis is, gotta love it.


Gotta love marketing. But it works, obviously. People don't realize just how much BHB salts one needs to have it actually have any effect. On top of that, being able to run it continuously at the doses needed.

Few studies out proving they do work (obviously) but as you stated, at a much not very feasible price for most.

Personally never tried BHB salts but from what I've seen/read, I wouldn't use them unless dieting and how John explained above.


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hotrod

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People are snowballing you - the getting into ketosis with a drink thing anyway.

Personally I think they are a great energy source WHEN YOU ARE DEPLETED, DIETING HARD, etc. You can feel them kick in, in about 30 minutes. It is really noticeable.

But all this drink BHB salts and you magically go into ketosis is not sound scientifically.

I used these alot last year before I decided to incorporate them into a product...they are a lifesaver when you are beat down, but if you are eating good, balanced..etc...It is not a good use.

JM
Being a old Dan Duchaine disciple I used keto diets quite a lot in y early days of BB,that and being a natural fat ass keto diets were really a godsend for me.
Of course in those days there was very little gear available,were talking about the years when the fed came down on gear and scheduled them.
If your a hard training guy or gal eating eating even relatively low carbs your body will start producing and using ketones as a fuel source along with glucose as fuel, especially when doing 2 a days with cardio in the mix.
 

LEX

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I think I have the info I was looking for.
 

1234trew

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I have found that I have the exact same results (also feel the same) when following a keto diet whether the strips say that I am in ketosis or not. Been low carb for almost 10 years now.
 

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