Knowledge needed!

[FutureFreak]

Ok. I am currently on a pre-contest cycle and I planned it out as followed. (Doses are very mild)

Weeks 1-12 (tren) (35 mg)
Weeks 1-12 (primo) (200 wk)
Weeks 4-12 (winny) (30 mg)

Heres my problem I want to run something the last 6 weeks, but am not sure what would make sense, if anything at all. My thoughts were the following:

Weeks 6-12 masteron (50 ed)
...........or anavar (30 ed)
............or proviron (50 ed)

Which products fellas? If any? Would they cancel eachother out? I want a nice lean mean pre-contest cocktail here so any suggestions would be great!

 

[AWN2004]

No test??? You are gonna need that in there my friend and an anti-e. Tren for that long of time even at 35mgs a day seems a bit too long. Id change pretty much the whole thing but thats just me....Im sure some others will chime in here too.

 

[FutureFreak]

The last thing I care about during contest preparation is libido. I rather have girls seem gross than to tempt me. I feel great without test as Ive done tren before like this. I rather take no test and no anti-e's even for the sake of good mood, hard-ons etc.....Dry, hard, grainy is what I want. Fuck good mental and emotions, I care what my outside looks like. Anyways, back to the final addition to the cycle......

 

[Pittbull™]

Fuck good mental and emotions, I care what my outside looks like.

It's posts like this that really make me angry How old are you, what's your stats, how many cycles have you done, how much reasearch have you done?

Bro, I'm not trying to flame you here but with an attitude like that you're mose likely going to stuff up both your health and mental/emotional wellbeing. You can still gain the look you're after while useing Test and anti-e's

Pittbull

 

[xcelbeyond]

Not knowing your gear experience here's some food for thought things to change/try.

Wk 1-6 Tren
Wk 1-6 Winny
Wk 1-6 Test Prop
Wk 7-11 TNE
Wk 7-12 - All optional things you listed

I'd keep letrozole on hand or use a minimal amount EOD or every 3 days. This will help keep you dry as well as keeping aromatization in check.

 

[Coopie]

FutFrk -

Take this for what it's worth...

Indeed, we have no idea how long you've been at this, nor do we have any clue about your stats. However, a very common mistake that most novices make is trying to get "ripped" before getting "big". The doses you listed are, in my opinion, a wast of money and a waste of good gear! Unless you are weighing in at about 100 lbs, they are not doing anything other than making you feel better about working out.

What I'm saying is: It takes a few WEEKS or even MONTHS to get RIPPED. But, it takes YEARS and YEARS to get BIG. One step at a time... Spend your time packing on mass (which can be done with a basic combo of test and deca - keep it simple). Then, when you have some serious mass to shred up, start cutting.

Don't sell yourself short... I see gear users in they gym who never gain any mass. They are "on cycle" year round, but they never make the dedication to EAT tons of food and hit the heavy weights. They are the same "ripped" 150 lbs year in and year out. Set yourself apart from the crowd - grow!

 

[FutureFreak]

"It's posts like this that really make me angry How old are you, what's your stats, how many cycles have you done, how much reasearch have you done?"

--Well, I have done 4 cycles thus far. I research everyday. Weight bulked (230) Height (5 10) I try and do everything a Bodybuilder needs to do to achieve results. Young, yes, newbie, no. I posted a while ago some pics from my last show. My size was flat and depleted but granite conditioning. Anyways, why would test be needed when your just going to use a anti-e to counter act all of the positive things test can do?? letro = kills sex drive, kills water retention for lifting heavy. Than your left with test w/o its best effects right? now it is just like a weak version of tren in a sense? Please shed some light?

"The doses you listed are, in my opinion, a wast of money and a waste of good gear! Unless you are weighing in at about 100 lbs, they are not doing anything other than making you feel better about working out".

--I dont agree with this? Does everyone else? With the compounds I listed above you dont think the drugs should do what their supposed to do during pre-contest (muscle preservation)? I rather grow off of light amounts than to have to up doses everytime I use. More thoughts on the original question, I really like to learn from other persons knowledge, so thanks.

 

[Skip]

I am with pitbull a bit, here. I don't know that your post made me angry but I did shake my head.

Also, I checked your pics and, no offense, "granite" is a bit much, you think? The terms "peeled", "granite", "shredded", etc., apparently are thrown around just a bit too much because these terms are waaaay over used. Just because you win or you are in your best condition ever does NOT qualify you as "granite" hard. I do suppose that the term is relative so if YOU feel you are granite hard, that is fine. I certainly do not.

I won't comment on the test issue other than to say that I won't even take on a client if they told me they wouldn't use test in their supp plan (unless they are natural, of course). I will say that I appreciate that you want to keep the dosing low. I am a low dose guy myself and advocate for the same. Still, I think you may be just a tad too low, though.

My best advice is to focus more on diet and training and less on a magical combo or dosing of gear.

Take it for what it's worth and good luck.

Skip

 

[FutureFreak]

I didnt mean to come off as an ignorant dumbass in my reply regarding "I dont care about my emotions and mental well-being" I want to be very cautious about not to damage my health in terms of mind, emotions and internal organs etc...I really just meant, test does have good mood qualities to it, but I am content without that aspect, as I feel fine without it. I had a feeling the "add test bro" kinda answer was gonna be thrown in there, but I have read and known successful people do great pre-contest without testosterone. ....More advice fellas....thankz.

 

[FutureFreak]

Well skip, maybe granite is better suited for Dexter Jackson, however for my young age and 7 weeks of crash dieting I guess I just assumed my muscle maturity was pretty pronounced compared to the rest my age, sorry for saying im Dexter(granite), that was foolish. Skip, could you give me the logic and benefits of test with anti-e's pre-contest? You wont accept a client if he refuses? must be an important compound for contests? I'm very curious about your ideology? Shed some light brothers.........

 

[Coopie]

FutureFreak -

1. It's the variety of opinion that, I believe, makes this board great,

and;

2. Read the posts and, if necessary, accept the criticism,

and finally;

3. Everyone here, with very rare exception, is only here to help others and to gain knowledge themselves. This is a very unselfish place.

Okay, having said that, I commend your use of low dose. I believe that anything more than necessary is, by definition, unnecessary. However, I wholly disagree with your contention that "pre-contest phase os merely for maintaining". I've competed 3X and each time my goal was to be my biggest, and my most ripped on day of show. Through "modern wizzardry", this is possible.

Also, anti-e's do not negate the effects of test - they negate the undesireable effects of test.

It's my opinion, and I think I'll get major back-up from the board on this one, if you're not using a solid TEST base, you're not going to be happy in either the short- or long-term.

It's okay to disagree. We're all friends here! Just trying to help ya!

 

[xcelbeyond]

Anyways, why would test be needed when your just going to use a anti-e to counter act all of the positive things test can do?? letro = kills sex drive, kills water retention for lifting heavy. Than your left with test w/o its best effects right? now it is just like a weak version of tren in a sense? Please shed some light?

I guess the above comments are directed at me.

IMHO letro does not counter the effects of test

Letro kills sex drive in some, not all people - it doesn't affect me. I was more concerned with it messing with your lipid profile. That's why I said to use infrequently or just use it if you bloat.

 

[FutureFreak]

"However, I wholly disagree with your contention that "pre-contest phase os merely for maintaining". I've competed 3X and each time my goal was to be my biggest, and my most ripped on day of show".

I definitely will be trying to grow if possible while dieting, but it is complicated with reduced cals and amped energy expenditure. Last show,the calipers read I gained a few pounds of tissue and lost all fat. I just havent heard of too many EXPERIENCED bb's gaining while dieting hard for a show. A newbie who is never strict with diet and training but stuffs his face here and there may very well gain muscle and lose fat while cals are low and starts to become consistent, but for people who are strict year round with a surplus of cals and/or a decrease of cals, gaining LBM while dieting is scarce. But yes, my goal is to defy "maintaining" and gain that tissue!

--Due to the fact I am a week into this apparently "sketchy" cycle, do you guys still think test is crucial for results? and also, what about that last 6 weeks of adding another agent to the mix??? Thanks guys.

 

[AWN2004]

In my opinion...testosterone is the cornerstone to any stack rather it be pre-contest or off-season. Don't underestimate the fat burning power of test. Used pre-contest its awesome....just choose your ester that works for you. Anti-e's will help with any sides if they appear and help reduce that watery look you might be worried about. Running a contest stack without test, is like gettting into a rowboat with no paddles. Just my two cents.

 

[full_belly]

If you dont use an anti E pre contest for at least the last coupla weeks, you will have too mucfh estrogen, you will hold a smalll amount of water, and your skin will look a tad thicker, potentially hiding a small amount of the hard 12week mental war you've just gone thru. it was me id not want anything to hold ME back, use the letro.

letro dont kill the good effects of test, alot of people get high blood pressure and bitchies from estrogen plus lipid problems etc. it would be an iresponsible dude who ignored these to grow. but guess what you CAN have it all.

 

[Skip]

Awn covered my opinions on test quite well. Everything should be built around test. Why test? Anabolics mimic test. Test IS test. Why wouldn't you go with the same compound that is naturally occuring in the body? You were talking about health by taking low doses. I am with you on that but what about health of your endocrine system and keeping a relative balance with keeping test in there? Even if your muscles didn't need it, your brain and dick sure do. Healthy body AND healthy mind.

I am not talking you into using test. You do what you think is best for you.

I also think that primo is a huge waste of money and really only any good for women but that is another thread, entirely. lol

Your contention that you can build any obvious muscle during a precontest phase is wishful thinking. You make a good point in that if someone were training half ass and eating half ass and maybe off gear for quite a while, you could almost certainly grow. I made the assumption that you were much more focussed and disciplined than that. I made my comment based on my experience with myself and clients and my clients don't slack in the offseason. My point to you is that you should NEVER approach a precontest phase with the idea of growing. That implies that your offseason homework is not yet finished. You should come into a prep phase with everything accomplished from the offseason and only one thing left to do - get peeled and hold every ounce of muscle possible.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Skip

 

[FutureFreak]

Cool. That is what I previously posted, that these compounds are for preserving your hard earned muscle from hard work in the off-season. Than I beleive coopie stated this:

"I However,wholly disagree with your contention that "pre-contest phase os merely for maintaining". I've competed 3X and each time my goal was to be my biggest, and my most ripped on day of show. Through "modern wizzardry", this is possible."

Well skip, the reason I chose primo was because it was clean as in, safe(er), no estro/prog, liver safe etc... I am sensitive to estro/prog so I wanted a compound that would not produce the sides that come with other powerhouse compounds,that is why tren is dosed low, I recently had prog probs with a high dose. Do you guys think masteron or anavar or proviron or halo would be good from 4-6 weeks out? That was my original question, but I love the opinions. Also, is winny ran at 8 weeks not a good idea due to toxicity? have you guys ran it that long with no probs? I have a plentiful supply and planned to run it 8 weeks out.

 

[Skip]

I haven't heard you mention anything about aromasin. If you have not used it, this may well be what you are looking for to combat estrogen. If you use legit aromasin and you still have estrogen issues, I will pat you on the back and tell you that you had better never go near test again. lol

If health is your concern, 17aas are not what you want to use.

Skip

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I dont get why you would use lower doses than ur accostomed to if as you say precontest, you try to GAIN muscle n lose bodyfat. Also dont get why you would use a weak AAS like primo instead of much stronger and more potent test. Its harder to gain muscle while dieting down, so why would you use less fire power than you would bulking and expect to gain?

 

[Coopie]

FF -

I think you misinterpreted my comments - if you go into a contest with the mindset that you're going to simply try to maintain, then I think that's a defeatist attitude. Just my .02 cents.

But, again, to belabor the point, test is best. Work all of the other stuff around the test foundation and I think you'll be quite pleased wit the results!