*Living a VIRTUOUS LIFE!

[hotnuts]

Sorry, but this is racking my brain lol...

Are you saying that HRT is morally acceptable, but anything more than 200mg/week is somehow morally unacceptable? I just don't see the logic. What makes having higher hormone levels IMMORAL? Because you are stronger and more muscular than normal people? That's wrong? Who are you affecting?

That's exactly what I'm saying. We can agree to disagree but hrt is something you need to live a better life and medically accepted. Also you probably wouldn't have a problem saying "hey mom I inject 150 mg because I need it and my doctor prescribes to me" opposed to "hey mom I run a steroid cycle that has me injecting 1500mgs of different compounds for no other reason than to look big and ripped. Remember, I'm not against what your saying because Im on year round and blast but I want everyone to know from a Christian standpoint there's a difference. That ties back to what is or isn't morally wrong. Btw this has nothing to do with a needle per se. Steroids are steroids no matter how you administer.

Also, I don't get how you are comparing vitamins which make us healthier and we need to steroids. Lost me on that one.

 

[Bio]

That's exactly what I'm saying. We can agree to disagree but hrt is something you need to live a better life and medically accepted. Also you probably wouldn't have a problem saying "hey mom I inject 150 mg because I need it and my doctor prescribes to me" opposed to "hey mom I run a steroid cycle that has me injecting 1500mgs of different compounds for no other reason than to look big and ripped. Remember, I'm not against what your saying because Im on year round and blast but I want everyone to know from a Christian standpoint there's a difference. That ties back to what is or isn't morally wrong. Btw this has nothing to do with a needle per se. Steroids are steroids no matter how you administer.

Also, I don't get how you are comparing vitamins which make us healthier and we need to steroids. Lost me on that one.

This is exactly the type of prejudicial upbringing or acquired thinking in regards to morality I mentioned in an earlier post...."Most things are subjective. When someone tries to put their moral stamp on something, it usually just coincides with their own personal beliefs and/or prejudices!! A person can be very small minded and possess a plethora of prejudices and still think they are the gold standard where morality is concerned!!"

Hotnuts, in your statement above, who's morality are you referring to? Yours?? How is taking hormones immoral?? Because it's illegal?? That's still subjective as it refers to morality!! Are you trying to tie it to religion somehow?? If so, that's just silly!! So, if you are a kind, loving, thoughtful, giving person, but you use AAS, then you have a moral flaw?? If that's the case in the way you think, I'm just glad I don't have the hang ups, prejudices, and boogie men in my life that you do...It must torture for you!!!

 

[BigNShredded]

^Exactly, like you said earlier about USING STEROIDS IN A TESTED SPORT, which is definitely IMMORAL and WRONG.

However, I just can't see how using hormones or vitamins is somehow IMMORAL.

Heck, it is technically ILLEGAL for me to DRINK RAW MILK in the state of NJ, so am I IMMORAL because my familiy and I drink it because it makes us HEALTHIER people?? I would think not..

I think we can all also agree that certain laws are not always in the best interest of MORALITY either, like LOCKING UP marijuana and steroid users with ridiculous excessive prison sentences.

 

[hotnuts]

This is exactly the type of prejudicial upbringing or acquired thinking in regards to morality I mentioned in an earlier post...."Most things are subjective. When someone tries to put their moral stamp on something, it usually just coincides with their own personal beliefs and/or prejudices!! A person can be very small minded and possess a plethora of prejudices and still think they are the gold standard where morality is concerned!!"

Hotnuts, in your statement above, who's morality are you referring to? Yours?? How is taking hormones immoral?? Because it's illegal?? That's still subjective as it refers to morality!! Are you trying to tie it to religion somehow?? If so, that's just silly!! So, if you are a kind, loving, thoughtful, giving person, but you use AAS, then you have a moral flaw?? If that's the case in the way you think, I'm just glad I don't have the hang ups, prejudices, and boogie men in my life that you do...It must torture for you!!!

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

 

[desibaba]

I have seen so many guys completely ruin their lives in the pursuit of bodybuilding. I remember there was a guy on OLM was stated that he hasnt taken his small kids on vacation for years because he spends all his money on GH and bodybuilding drugs and this guy didnt even compete.

Say you are one of those guys who deprive themselves, their children and families in the pursuit of more muscle and lets say you do manage to get to 280lbs with abs. Then what? You dont compete and dont make any money from bodybuilding. Is it really worth it all at the end of the day if you are 60 yrs old, all alone but at least you can brag about how big you used to be back in the day

Yes by all means do everything you can to build muscle and lose fat but always keep the big picture in mind and remember those huge muscles wont last forever. Id rather be the small, fat guy who was a good dad and husband than be the big freak who only cared about himself. At least i want someone to miss me when im dead.

 

[plang]

Just because something is illegal...doesnt make it immoral. The inverse holds true as well. Especially if a person is taking a "Christian" stance...most Christians believe abortion to be immoral....yet...it is legal.

if we use hrt as a "moral" amount of steroids...and any more as immoral we need to look at our food intake...any more than what we "need" is gluttonous and immoral..obviously this is a silly line of thinking.

 

[BigNShredded]

I have seen so many guys completely ruin their lives in the pursuit of bodybuilding. I remember there was a guy on OLM was stated that he hasnt taken his small kids on vacation for years because he spends all his money on GH and bodybuilding drugs and this guy didnt even compete.

Say you are one of those guys who deprive themselves, their children and families in the pursuit of more muscle and lets say you do manage to get to 280lbs with abs. Then what? You dont compete and dont make any money from bodybuilding. Is it really worth it all at the end of the day if you are 60 yrs old, all alone but at least you can brag about how big you used to be back in the day

Yes by all means do everything you can to build muscle and lose fat but always keep the big picture in mind and remember those huge muscles wont last forever. Id rather be the small, fat guy who was a good dad and husband than be the big freak who only cared about himself. At least i want someone to miss me when im dead.

The man in the situation that you dsecribe above is indeed IMMORAL; for the simple fact that he is SELFISH and lacks COMPASSION for his FAMILY. THAT IS WHAT MAKES HIM IMMORAL.

This has nothing to do with GOD or SINS, this is about MORAL PHILOSOPHY. Being VAIN is not a virtue, but it is not IMMORAL, unless it somehow AFFECTS THE WELL-BEING OF OTHER PEOPLE.

 

[Crom]

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

So am I understanding you corrrectly wen you say if you break the law you are immoral? It is not the abusing of the body that is immoral but the breaking of the law with whatever substance, right? So long, I can follow you.

Then you continue to talk about taking things for the wrong reason. Then we need to look at all the things we people do for the wrong reason. People who drink alcohol...what reason is righteous enough to drink alcohol? For the taste? Getting drunk? When does it start to become immoral? What about eating? Are we immoral when we eat to much and get fat because we have eaten larger amonts then necessary? This I can not follow you on. Any person will at some point ingest/use things past the point of what is absolutely necessary but hat does not mean they are immoral.

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

So in a country where steroids were legal would it still be immoral? Or if they were legalized in the United States would it still be immoral? Does legality constitute morality? In the United States it is ILLEGAL to treat cancer with anything other than chemo, surgery or radiation. Treating cancer with nutrition and cleansing methods, ie the Gerson Therapy is ILLEGAL. Surely you don't think that treating cancer with nutrition is immoral....

 

[BigNShredded]

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

Let me make the distinction between "IMMORAL" and "UNVIRTUOUS"

Getting high on pain medication that you are prescribed(or not) is also not necessarily IMMORAL. It may be UNVIRTUOUS, but if you are not affecting others negatively it is not IMMORAL. People getting high on pain medication are probably trying to alleviate PSYCHOLOGICAL AND EMOTIONAL pain, and so they are therefore FLAWED AND UNVIRTUOUS.

I would agree that someone who ABUSES STEROIDS, and as a RESULT of that abuse, causes harm others, is IMMORAL. But the guy using tons of steroids just to feel good about himself is NOT IMMORAL, he is FLAWED in CHARACTER and is UNVIRTUOUS.

 

[BigNShredded]

*IN OTHER WORDS: Whitney Houston was not a BAD person, she was a WEAK person.

 

[BigNShredded]

EVEN FURTHER--a guy using REASONABLE amounts of steroids, vitamins, creatine, and other supplements that is also BUSTING HIS ASS DAY IN AND DAY OUT, training and eating perfectly, is NOT necessarily UNVIRTUOUS. A HEALTHY SELF-ESTEEM IS FOREMOST!

 

[BigNShredded]

Then the primary philosophical question is: Is it IMMORAL or UNVIRTUOUS to knowingly harm oneself, even if it results in a greater quality of life for YOU and YOUR FAMILY?

 

[BigNShredded]

Is it IMMORAL or UNVIRTUOUS to take HAIR-LOSS medications of birth control?

 

[Jonny]

Your therapy sessions must be working.

 

[desibaba]

Is it wrong/immoral for a 55 year old man to date and have sex with a 18 year old girl who still lives with her parents? Its legal but is it "Unvirtuous"?

 

[bRIAN617]

Is it IMMORAL or UNVIRTUOUS to take HAIR-LOSS medications of birth control?

The argument could be made that hair loss medications are a symptom of vanity, a manifestation of fear based ego. The same could be said of steroids, even in low doses. The argument could be made that true humility leads to the view of self as a gift from something greater, not a personal property. Along those lines, the use of steroids resulting from vanity could be a selfish desecration of that gift due to the risks of steroids. Many rationalizations exist denying the risks. If one felt compelled to entertain these rationalizations, one would have to ask oneself if he would encourage his or someone else's child to start gear, even with supervision and all ancillaries dispensed to minimize side effects.

 

[Racepicks]

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

Hotnuts- Do you mind breaking it down to a 4th grade level, because from what I can see, nobody knows what the heck you're talking about!

 

[Swifto]

For the record, I wasn't always this way; I consider my OLD SELF to be one of the WORST individuals I've ever known. I was beyond selfish and arrogant, I was just a nasty SOB. I didn't care about other people's feelings whatsoever. I was also young, but that is no excuse.

My view is, IF I CAN CHANGE--ANYONE can!! :lightbulb:

I knew you then and you were a proper prick, you're a lot better now Ross, I must admit, but you still bring shit on yourself.

Where are these leg pics you promised weeks and weeks ago?

If you were never going to post them, dont tell people you are, becuase when you dont, you look like a mug.

 

[Swifto]

I also think this is a good thread.