making yourself small . . .

[alfresco]

While I understand that the title might be a bit misleading, especially in a bodybuilding forum,
but . . . with some of the recent topics, picking a trainer, stupid parents, etc., I could not help
but being reminded of a passage I recently read in a book by Elizabeth Gilbert called The Last
American Man. It’s a biography of Eustace Conway. He is a fascinating person, and the book
is pretty good too. Here she attempts to explain some of the problems with today’s youths.

“ "You must make yourself very small," she explained, as if that's such a simple thing to do.

It's not at all simple, though. Not many people can subdue their egos. The talent for submission
is especially hard for modern American kids, who are raised in a culture that has taught them
from infancy that their every desire is vital and sacred. Their parents, their teachers, their leaders,
their media, have always asked them, "What do you want?" I used to see this when I was a diner
waitress, of all things. Parents would interrupt ordering food for the entire table to hover around
their toddler and ask, "What do you want, honey?" And they'd stare moon-eyed at the child,
waiting desperately for the answer. Oh my God, what will he say? What does he want?
The world holds its breath! Eustace Conway is right on target when he says parents did not give
their children this kind of power a hundred years ago. Or even fifty years ago. I myself can
declare with all honesty that on the rare occasions when my mother and her six Midwestern-
farm siblings ate in restaurants as children, if any of them had dared to make a personal demand
of their father ... well, they just wouldn't have.

But Americans are raised differently now. And the "What do you want, honey?" culture has created
the kids who are flocking to Eustace today. They undergo enormous shock when they quickly discover
that he doesn't give a shit what they want. And between 85 and 90 percent of them can't handle that.”

 

[maldorf]

Good post. Im doing my best to raise my girls not to be like that. I make the decisions of what is best for them and dont fall into the trap of keeping up with their friends.
We are the only family on the street that doesnt own a WI game console. They have asked for one for xmas the last 2 years. On the other hand we are the only family on the street to have a nice desk top computer with ethernet and desk setup in the spare bedroom for my kids. SO they have their own setup and dont have to worry about competing with me for a computer. At age 8 my oldest girl is writing "screenplays" and books on microsoft office. She also posts regularly on some kid's boards.
I waited tables some too in the past and ran into what you did with the ordering dinner. As a teacher in high school ive witnessed kids yelling at their parents and ordering them to do things. One boy was upset because his mother was not there to pick him up on time after serving after school detention with me. I walked him to the office and he called his mother on the phone. On the phone he is yelling at her calling her stupid and other things that were disrespectful. The mother came and picked him up and the whole time he was yelling at her, all the way to the car and she put up with it and did not discipline him at all. Its no wonder so many kids are messed up these days once they mature into adults.

 

[Ashop]

Good post. Im doing my best to raise my girls not to be like that. I make the decisions of what is best for them and dont fall into the trap of keeping up with their friends.
We are the only family on the street that doesnt own a WI game console. They have asked for one for xmas the last 2 years. On the other hand we are the only family on the street to have a nice desk top computer with ethernet and desk setup in the spare bedroom for my kids. SO they have their own setup and dont have to worry about competing with me for a computer. At age 8 my oldest girl is writing "screenplays" and books on microsoft office. She also posts regularly on some kid's boards.
I waited tables some too in the past and ran into what you did with the ordering dinner. As a teacher in high school ive witnessed kids yelling at their parents and ordering them to do things. One boy was upset because his mother was not there to pick him up on time after serving after school detention with me. I walked him to the office and he called his mother on the phone. On the phone he is yelling at her calling her stupid and other things that were disrespectful. The mother came and picked him up and the whole time he was yelling at her, all the way to the car and she put up with it and did not discipline him at all. Its no wonder so many kids are messed up these days once they mature into adults.

These days its important to keep your children active. With all these video games and such,,you just dont see kids out playing like you used too. Habits you build with them now will last a lifetime and they can then share that with their children.

 

[maldorf]

These days its important to keep your children active. With all these video games and such,,you just dont see kids out playing like you used too. Habits you build with them now will last a lifetime and they can then share that with their children.

Good point on that too. I do have them both taking tae kwon do and they really enjoy that. My 7 year old is about to earn her green belt. In the summer we swim a lot and have been trying to get down how to ride a bike without training wheels. We are behind on the bike!

 

[myosin]

A New Attitude...

The more we have available, the more we think we are "entitled"... that's the buzzword for American's... we think we are "entitled" to everything. "The Greatest Generation" came out of WWII (no TV, hardship, sacrificing US material goods for the war effort, etc)... it is scary what this generation will be called.

"Helicopter Parent's"... there's another buzzword for you... parent's hovering over every part of their children's lives (even calling college professor's to complain about their child's grade) b/c their child is "entitled" to "this, that and the other" just because.

As noted in "The Pursuit of Happiness", Thomas Jefferson had it right, all men are entitled to life and liberty, BUT only the PURSUIT of happiness.

 

[Emery]

Absolutely... We as American's have become a society with huge entitlement issues, seeking instant gratification... The Romans had that problem too... Didn't work out so well for them... Just my opinion!

 

[myosin]

Absolutely... We as American's have become a society with huge entitlement issues, seeking instant gratification... The Romans had that problem too... Didn't work out so well for them... Just my opinion!

hahahaha

 

[thatbloke]

second i have kids

(it will be a boy) hehehe, soz but i dont think i could handle a girl

signing him up for gymnastics and golf hahahaha

think about it, he will be in great shape and active

and on sundays we can play golf and keep a good relationship and just talk about random shit

now all i need to do is learn to play golf n get off the roids so i can make some babies

 

[hawkmoon]

I am trying to raise my daughter (4.5 yrs old) here in Japan to walk the delicate balance between being well-mannered and humble as well as to not be pushed over or stepped on. Very tough for girls here.

Ironically it is my side - the American side - that is teaching her to be humble and caring, while her mother, my ex, is raising her to be selfish and self-centered. I notice the difference most in her language usage. In English she is sweet and caring. Very innocent and child-like. In Japanese she is selfish, demanding, and ego-centric.

Ah, the ironies of life LOL.

 

[Diesel Gear]

Raising children is tough... gonna have to give this book a read. Maybe one of my kids will thank me later for it...:naughty: <---me trying to talk to my little guys. In my head it looks like this ----> :banghead:

 

[maldorf]

I am trying to raise my daughter (4.5 yrs old) here in Japan to walk the delicate balance between being well-mannered and humble as well as to not be pushed over or stepped on. Very tough for girls here.

Ironically it is my side - the American side - that is teaching her to be humble and caring, while her mother, my ex, is raising her to be selfish and self-centered. I notice the difference most in her language usage. In English she is sweet and caring. Very innocent and child-like. In Japanese she is selfish, demanding, and ego-centric.

Ah, the ironies of life LOL.

Wow, that would make a great study in psychology I bet. I wonder how she feels deep down inside. I wonder if shes more like the english or more like the Japanese. Very strange that she acts differently depending on what she is speaking. She has to have an affinity for one of them. Perhaps she is just acting one of the ways to make that parent happy?

 

[michelin]

interesting post alfresco -I've got 2 girls aged 9 and 13 and its a struggle at times as no matter what values or principles you give them as they are exposed to the instant gratification and 'I deserve this' culture pretty much the whole time they're away from you.

I definitely raise them with the values my parents instilled in me - manners, humility, hard work and respect for yourself and others, do not be a sheep and remember that the world owes you nothing.

The way I see it is that you have 18 years to directly influence your children (with them living under your roof) in the right way to conduct themselves and then you have to let go and have faith that they will want to carry those values with them and be the young adults that are respectful and know what life is really about.

For all the spoilt brats with a me me me attitude there are just as many children and teens who have clearly been brought up the right way and are a credit to their parents

 

[Joejo]

This is a good post. Got to love it, come here for bodybuilding advice and get counseling help and social issue answers as well. Here is my two cents for what it is worth.

While as parents we do the best not to "spoil" our children I think in subconsciously we do it any way. We are a society that is always trying to keep up with the "Jones" in all aspects (not all of us, but a lot of us). In my profession I deal with a lot of people in and facing foreclosure. Some are truly sad stories, but others are people who as they stated "wanted to give their children all the things they didn't have" and now they are losing it all. But is it just our children's generation or our we (35ish) not also a product of the same type of thinking. I have a friend same age who is always bitching how he has never had any luck and how no one is offering him any high paying jobs. Like we all deserve high paying jobs. I told him that if he got off his fat ass and went back to school or marketed himself differently the money will come in the future. Unfornately many of us think we are entitled to things we have not earned. I have a friend's father in law who has been unemployed for years and has the attitude that he'd rather collect unemployment then do any real "hard" work for a living (he is also in foreclosure). Those of us that work hard we can only hope that our children see our hard work for what it is "hard work". We can only teach by example.

 

[jmc3mjc1]

My sons are at times very conscious of what they dont have. We try to teach patience, that in time they will probably get what they want. But not today!
My oldest son is mad at me right now for not having "Black OPs" on preorder like all his friends parents did. I hate video games!

 

[hawkmoon]

Wow, that would make a great study in psychology I bet. I wonder how she feels deep down inside. I wonder if shes more like the english or more like the Japanese. Very strange that she acts differently depending on what she is speaking. She has to have an affinity for one of them. Perhaps she is just acting one of the ways to make that parent happy?

Hi Maldorf -

I think she feels she has to perform for her mother because her mother is very demanding of attention. She is always telling me she has to do this or say that because if she doesn't "mommy is sad". So in Japanese she is more careful, calculating, as well as copying the manipulative style of speaking found in her mother and grandmother's houses. With me she is just a little girl.

My fiancee, who is Japanese - speaks to my daughter sometimes in Japanese for "girl talk". She is the one who pointed it out. She also mentioned my daughter is much more adult-like than her own 5 year old niece. Also more "me" oriented.


Japan is often considered a "selfless" society, so this kind of reversal is interesting...if not a bit disturbing at the same time...

 

[Joejo]

My sons are at times very conscious of what they dont have. We try to teach patience, that in time they will probably get what they want. But not today!
My oldest son is mad at me right now for not having "Black OPs" on preorder like all his friends parents did. I hate video games!

And so you should, patience is differently a virtue. It is very disturbing how kids can sit in front of the TV with a video game and the entire day can go by and they did even know it. I to HATE VIDEO GAMES and what they can do to our children!!!!

 

[tkav1980]

Hi Maldorf -

I think she feels she has to perform for her mother because her mother is very demanding of attention. She is always telling me she has to do this or say that because if she doesn't "mommy is sad". So in Japanese she is more careful, calculating, as well as copying the manipulative style of speaking found in her mother and grandmother's houses. With me she is just a little girl.

My fiancee, who is Japanese - speaks to my daughter sometimes in Japanese for "girl talk". She is the one who pointed it out. She also mentioned my daughter is much more adult-like than her own 5 year old niece. Also more "me" oriented.


Japan is often considered a "selfless" society, so this kind of reversal is interesting...if not a bit disturbing at the same time...

Encourage that. Careful and calculating. Not the other stuff. If she has the intelligence to pull this off at her age, you may have one brilliant little girl on your hands. Who knows what she is capable of with the right teacher and father. CEO of a fortune 500 company, research Physician, engineer, Physicist?

 

[wtw11171]

This topic can become one of deep discusion. JMHO, but I believe we have all been messed up from the very start of our earthly journey. We came here from a place of supernatural origin. We were surrounded by Divine beings and when we opened our eyes for the first time, expecting to be guided by beings of love we were embraced by human stupidity. Instead of being guided and instructed properly, the opposite occured. Just think of how pure and innocent we once were. The question is what happened? We might have been brought up in a fammily of discipline and prayer. Was this the right answer? We live by rules, laws, regulations created by men who believed their way was absolute truth. Who has the truth and by what authority do they posess this truth? Honestly, I am not looking to get into a debate here. I read over some comments above and they are very good. From my own thoughts these type of questions arise. I am a Christian. When I sit down pray, meditate and go into deep thought I often think how can this be. What went wrong? If I really think about it i come up with one conclusion, we have been lied to from the start. We have not been taught the truth. Man has been wrapped up in the struggle for power and so we as a people suffer. Some can call this generational sin or others karma. It is the same. You suffer for my sin. Sorry if this doesn't fit here. I got lost in my thoughts. Pax et bonum.

W