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Mike Tyson's crazy genetics

thethinker48

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One thing I really like about him now is his attitude. Every time I see him he is smiling. Maybe its the weed,lol! He mentioned smoking it in the interview and he has that big business starting up too. The change in his personality is huge and he seems really happy now. Im glad for him. He worked hard for it. He is married now with kids too isn't he?

He's much calmer and happier nowadays. He's talked about DMT, and weed changing his perspective on life and things.

Guy's one of the most self aware human beings on the planet, knows exactly the what and why behind the workings of his mind. He has a few kids too, his daughters make him far happier than the millions he had in his heyday.
 

showstopper83

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The Tyson fan in me would agree with you

But objectively I think both Ali and Foreman would have a good chance at beating him; Ali especially. Remember, Muhammad Ali fought Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Ernie Shavers; these are easily the hardest hitting boxers of all time. Mike's speed and explosiveness gave him a bigger edge than his power, it was accuracy of his shots that took out his competition.

Ali went 8 rounds against George Foreman in RITJ, in the 7th round Foreman hit him square in the jaw with all he had: Ali whispered "That all you got George?". This is a guy who used to snap heavybags like firecrackers in the middle from repetitively hitting them with one arm for 30 minutes at a time. And Ali shook him to his core in that fight.

Most of Mike Tyson's opponents lost the fight before they ever stepped foot in the ring; you could see it in their face. They were justifiably scared of this death machine that was staring at them like a rabid animal before fights. Tyson wouldn't have scared Ali or Foreman the same way, talent wise they were both right up there with him. Ali was one crazy guy, he scared Sonny Liston (who was an enforcer for the mob, and gave Patterson hell). Once in a lifetime sort of man. Handcuffed lightning and threw thunder in jail indeed.

But who knows, it could've gone anyway, it's fighting.

I disagree that any of those guys hit as hard, and definitely not as fast as Tyson.

Speed/Explosion = Power... And Tyson was just in a different realm of explosive hard hitting than Foreman or Sonny Liston.

I'm not taking anything away from those guys as they were among the greatest to ever do it... But boxing just never has, and maybe never again will see the raw power and explosion that Mike Tyson showed.

I don't think Muhammad Ali would have been intimidated, and he was harder to hit than anyone Tyson fought and built to absorb punishment... But regardless of mental toughness, all it takes is to slip up for 1/10 of a second and if you get caught by a Tyson power punch in the sweet spot... It's game over.

Athlete's like a Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Lewis, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Bo Jackson... Some dudes just are on a different level than anyone else whose ever competed.

I don't think we will ever see another Mike Tyson boxing talent ever again.
 

maldorf

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I disagree that any of those guys hit as hard, and definitely not as fast as Tyson.

Speed/Explosion = Power... And Tyson was just in a different realm of explosive hard hitting than Foreman or Sonny Liston.

I'm not taking anything away from those guys as they were among the greatest to ever do it... But boxing just never has, and maybe never again will see the raw power and explosion that Mike Tyson showed.

I don't think Muhammad Ali would have been intimidated, and he was harder to hit than anyone Tyson fought and built to absorb punishment... But regardless of mental toughness, all it takes is to slip up for 1/10 of a second and if you get caught by a Tyson power punch in the sweet spot... It's game over.

Athlete's like a Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Lewis, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Bo Jackson... Some dudes just are on a different level than anyone else whose ever competed.

I don't think we will ever see another Mike Tyson boxing talent ever again.
Shavers vs Tyson. Shavers retired a lot of boxers, don't recall that so much with Tyson. Shavers' record with knockouts is better too i think.

  • Shavers recorded 23 first-round knockouts and 50 knockouts within the first three rounds.
  • Seven fighters retired after being knocked out by Shavers: Ron Asher, Frank Smith, Bunky Akins, Bill McMurray, Harold Carter, Eddie Parotte, and Larry Sims.
Quotes About Earnie Shavers
  • Muhammad Ali: "Earnie hit me so hard, it shook my kinfolk back in Africa."
  • Larry Holmes: "Earnie hit me harder than any other fighter, including Mike Tyson. ... Being hit by Mike Tyson was like getting hit by a speeding Ferrari. Being hit by Earnie Shavers was like being hit by a Mack Truck."
  • Ron Lyle: "Hey man, that's the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And George Foreman could punch, but none of them could hit like Earnie Shavers did. When he hit you, the lights went out. I can laugh about it now, but at the time, it wasn't funny."
  • Randall (Tex) Cobb: "Nobody hits like Shavers. If anybody hit harder than Shavers, I'd shoot him. ... Earnie could punch you in the neck with his right hand and break your ankle."
 

w8tlifterty

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I hate to say this but didn't we all get suckered into the Kevin Levrone comeback and then he showed up with no legs.

I think some of us knew the legs werent ever going to be there, despite being a genetic anomaly... its seems, when the thighs go, they go. Freak or not. I will say, his upper body was pretty damn impressive.

I'm curious to see how Centopani bounces back after the his quad rupture (if we see shows this year). Evan strikes me as a smart man, more importantly as a family man. I'm guessing the gear usage is more moderate these days for him. Anxious to see him in contest condition. Sorry, a bit off topic...
 

thethinker48

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I disagree that any of those guys hit as hard, and definitely not as fast as Tyson.

Speed/Explosion = Power... And Tyson was just in a different realm of explosive hard hitting than Foreman or Sonny Liston.

I'm not taking anything away from those guys as they were among the greatest to ever do it... But boxing just never has, and maybe never again will see the raw power and explosion that Mike Tyson showed.

I don't think Muhammad Ali would have been intimidated, and he was harder to hit than anyone Tyson fought and built to absorb punishment... But regardless of mental toughness, all it takes is to slip up for 1/10 of a second and if you get caught by a Tyson power punch in the sweet spot... It's game over.

Athlete's like a Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Lewis, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Bo Jackson... Some dudes just are on a different level than anyone else whose ever competed.

I don't think we will ever see another Mike Tyson boxing talent ever again.

I'm going off based on what boxers like Larry Holmes have said (who fought both Tyson and Shavers).

Tyson was techinically one of the most complete boxers we've ever seen. The way he setup his shots, his footwork, and the pivoting power from his hips was all in line when he was young. All of that stuff combined made his knockouts look more devastating than any other heavyweight.

Overall power goes to bigger guys like Foreman, Liston, and Shavers. But they weren't nearly as technical and perfect at using those shots so they never elicited the kind of highlight reel. Remember Foreman hit Frazier so hard to the body in their first fight, that both of Joe's feet came off the ground. That's raw power.'

It's like saying a 9mm vs a 38 special; difference is the 9mm is a headshot and the 38 blows your leg apart. One is more powerful, the other way more deadlier.
 

MonkeyBoy

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Love Tyson, always have. Loved when he came out in the black shorts vs Botha to the DMX song. I kind of feel sorry for him at times and how he was taken advantage of. The one time I watched the Ultimate Fighter and he was on giving a speech and said something I will never forget "At this level, everyone is really good, strong, fast the but the smartest guy will always win"

I also love the vid of him falling on his ass with the hover board

 

thethinker48

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It was awesome seeing him interview Sugar Ray Leonard

He knew every single guy Leonard's faced early on his career. Guy's a boxing historian
 
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showstopper83

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Shavers vs Tyson. Shavers retired a lot of boxers, don't recall that so much with Tyson. Shavers' record with knockouts is better too i think.

  • Shavers recorded 23 first-round knockouts and 50 knockouts within the first three rounds.
  • Seven fighters retired after being knocked out by Shavers: Ron Asher, Frank Smith, Bunky Akins, Bill McMurray, Harold Carter, Eddie Parotte, and Larry Sims.
Quotes About Earnie Shavers
  • Muhammad Ali: "Earnie hit me so hard, it shook my kinfolk back in Africa."
  • Larry Holmes: "Earnie hit me harder than any other fighter, including Mike Tyson. ... Being hit by Mike Tyson was like getting hit by a speeding Ferrari. Being hit by Earnie Shavers was like being hit by a Mack Truck."
  • Ron Lyle: "Hey man, that's the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And George Foreman could punch, but none of them could hit like Earnie Shavers did. When he hit you, the lights went out. I can laugh about it now, but at the time, it wasn't funny."
  • Randall (Tex) Cobb: "Nobody hits like Shavers. If anybody hit harder than Shavers, I'd shoot him. ... Earnie could punch you in the neck with his right hand and break your ankle."

Interesting. I'd never heard of Earnie Shavers until now. Could be Larry Holmes never took a money shot from Mike Tyson. Still very impressive regardless. I don't recall the Tyson vs. Holmes fight. I have also not seen Shavers highlights.

I Haven't personally seen any boxer move close to as fast or explosively as Tyson on tape, or sleep people that fast
I'm going off based on what boxers like Larry Holmes have said (who fought both Tyson and Shavers).

Tyson was techinically one of the most complete boxers we've ever seen. The way he setup his shots, his footwork, and the pivoting power from his hips was all in line when he was young. All of that stuff combined made his knockouts look more devastating than any other heavyweight.

Overall power goes to bigger guys like Foreman, Liston, and Shavers. But they weren't nearly as technical and perfect at using those shots so they never elicited the kind of highlight reel. Remember Foreman hit Frazier so hard to the body in their first fight, that both of Joe's feet came off the ground. That's raw power.'

It's like saying a 9mm vs a 38 special; difference is the 9mm is a headshot and the 38 blows your leg apart. One is more powerful, the other way more deadlier.

Larry Holmes testimony definitely bears weight. I can't recall the Tyson vs Holmes fight, but i don't know that Holmes ever took a kill shot to the face from Tyson- so although his testimony means a lot, if you are comparing 2 average hits from diff boxers vs kill shots, I don't know that his opinion is based on comparing apples with apples.

Shavers was a powerful motherfucker, i watched his highlight reel, and while he has some power, i saw lots of boxers take open kill shots from and keep ticking.

I can't recall seeing ANYONE taking a kill shot from Tyson and not going to sleep.

I try to go by what the film shows, and the eye test and tape just shows more power from Tyson, IMO.

I see the point you are trying to make with comparing a .9mm to a .38mm, but i think a more accurate analogy that holds betterand is more relative to sports is that of a LB and a DE.

Let's take Ray Lewis (LB) and Reggie White (DE). Both will crush you. No doubt Reggie White is bigger and powerful, but who would yoo honestly least rather have teeing you up coming across the middle? The speed/explosion at impact can be more devastating than just the pure strength and weight behind the hit.

I had read somewhere that Tysons kill shots were measured at having 800 lbs of force behind them, compared to 500 lbs average from other heavy weight champs.

Shavers has some good stats and testimony backing him up, but the eye test shows different IMO.

Tyson was also a villain and not exactly well liked by his peers and competition, so a testimony is still opinion that can be swayed by bias. Film IMO can't really be argued with.
 

Kid Dynamite

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Good article here about a British pro that says he could beat Tyson and that's a good reason for him not to fight again. Perhaps a lot of us would like to remember Tyson for how he was in his prime, not now. The fighting he is going to do is just charity stuff from what this article says, so nothing too serious.


Dave Allen? lol.. He is a tough kid, but he isn't no where near explosive as Tyson. Tyson would destroy him. And Dave Allen hasn't really fought anyone either. His biggest notable fight was a TKO of Lucas Browne, who was out of his prime. And I dont think he has ever held or won a belt either.. If he did fight Tyson, it would just be a big pay day for him and thats it.
 

maldorf

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Dave Allen? lol.. He is a tough kid, but he isn't no where near explosive as Tyson. Tyson would destroy him. And Dave Allen hasn't really fought anyone either. His biggest notable fight was a TKO of Lucas Browne, who was out of his prime. And I dont think he has ever held or won a belt either.. If he did fight Tyson, it would just be a big pay day for him and thats it.
He has a decent record. I think the main thing he is pointing out is the age. He is 28 years old. Tyson is 53. Id put my money on Allen.
 

thethinker48

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Interesting. I'd never heard of Earnie Shavers until now. Could be Larry Holmes never took a money shot from Mike Tyson. Still very impressive regardless. I don't recall the Tyson vs. Holmes fight. I have also not seen Shavers highlights.

I Haven't personally seen any boxer move close to as fast or explosively as Tyson on tape, or sleep people that fast


Larry Holmes testimony definitely bears weight. I can't recall the Tyson vs Holmes fight, but i don't know that Holmes ever took a kill shot to the face from Tyson- so although his testimony means a lot, if you are comparing 2 average hits from diff boxers vs kill shots, I don't know that his opinion is based on comparing apples with apples.

Shavers was a powerful motherfucker, i watched his highlight reel, and while he has some power, i saw lots of boxers take open kill shots from and keep ticking.

I can't recall seeing ANYONE taking a kill shot from Tyson and not going to sleep.

I try to go by what the film shows, and the eye test and tape just shows more power from Tyson, IMO.

I see the point you are trying to make with comparing a .9mm to a .38mm, but i think a more accurate analogy that holds betterand is more relative to sports is that of a LB and a DE.

Let's take Ray Lewis (LB) and Reggie White (DE). Both will crush you. No doubt Reggie White is bigger and powerful, but who would yoo honestly least rather have teeing you up coming across the middle? The speed/explosion at impact can be more devastating than just the pure strength and weight behind the hit.

I had read somewhere that Tysons kill shots were measured at having 800 lbs of force behind them, compared to 500 lbs average from other heavy weight champs.

Shavers has some good stats and testimony backing him up, but the eye test shows different IMO.

Tyson was also a villain and not exactly well liked by his peers and competition, so a testimony is still opinion that can be swayed by bias. Film IMO can't really be argued with.

Here's an eye test and testimonies when talking about power from other heavyweights.

-Ernie Shavers knocking down Larry Holmes:


That is one of the hardest knockdowns in the history of boxing. Larry Holmes is an all time great that's the only reason he got up so quick.

-Letterman asks George Foreman about hardest hitters, and then asks "What about Ernie Shavers"

George Foreman: "I never fought Ernie Shavers, Thank God!"


- Evander Holyfield (who faced both Tyson and Foreman, beating both) says that Foreman was the hardest puncher he's fought even at his age: 7:00 mark


I mean these are the best boxers in the history of the heavyweight division talking about power. I would take their word on it.

I will say this about Mike Tyson: You're 100% on point about Tyson's athleticism and explosiveness. That guy was made by the man upstairs to be one of the fastest most explosive fighters we've ever seen. Nobody will ever match a young Mike Tyson's speed; he's across the ring and you blink and he's in your face. He moved like a lightweight at 220 lbs, I'll be damned if that's not scary to any human being. Cus used to hypnotize him into believing he was a descendant of the gods of war; I mean that guy grew up with destruction in his mind, no wonder he scared every single boxer on the planet during that time. Even Lennox and Holyfield say that a young Tyson was a scary scary thing to see in Catskill.
 

showstopper83

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Here's an eye test and testimonies when talking about power from other heavyweights.

-Ernie Shavers knocking down Larry Holmes:


That is one of the hardest knockdowns in the history of boxing. Larry Holmes is an all time great that's the only reason he got up so quick.

-Letterman asks George Foreman about hardest hitters, and then asks "What about Ernie Shavers"

George Foreman: "I never fought Ernie Shavers, Thank God!"


- Evander Holyfield (who faced both Tyson and Foreman, beating both) says that Foreman was the hardest puncher he's fought even at his age: 7:00 mark


I mean these are the best boxers in the history of the heavyweight division talking about power. I would take their word on it.

I will say this about Mike Tyson: You're 100% on point about Tyson's athleticism and explosiveness. That guy was made by the man upstairs to be one of the fastest most explosive fighters we've ever seen. Nobody will ever match a young Mike Tyson's speed; he's across the ring and you blink and he's in your face. He moved like a lightweight at 220 lbs, I'll be damned if that's not scary to any human being. Cus used to hypnotize him into believing he was a descendant of the gods of war; I mean that guy grew up with destruction in his mind, no wonder he scared every single boxer on the planet during that time. Even Lennox and Holyfield say that a young Tyson was a scary scary thing to see in Catskill.

Ya know, the thing I hate about debates like this is that I never want to sound like any all time great is being diminished- I mean, Foreman, Shavers, Liston, Ali were all big, powerful spectacles to behild. Each one of them an anomaly.

Earnie Shavers has a lot between careers he's ended and peer testimony about his punching power. I believe Tyson does as well and many find his name synonymous with knockout power. I think both have fantastic cases.

What I will say is that speed/power in the right ratio will trump sheer power. Mass x Acceleration = Explosion.

I was watching some Mike Tyson highlights last night, and the guys he fought were all much larger than him.

I actually never realized how fucking fast and agile he was from a bob/weave standpoint of being hard to hit last night. That alone had to be absolutely demoralizing for his opponents to whiff as bad as they did over and over when they kept thinking they had kill shots on him.

Also fair to point out... We never even got to see what would have been the prime of his career due to him going to prison.
 

maldorf

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I think the thing about Tyson's power punches is how he could throw a really short punch, not having to wind up much, and still knock a guy out! He'd get in real close and the punch would come from around his waist at best, fist not traveling very far. Still enough power to knock out a guy in round 1. I dont think I've ever seen another guy on this planet do that.
 

maldorf

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I've heard fighters also say that it is the punches that you don't see coming that end up knocking you out. The fighter is unable to brace for and react to the punch, unable to roll with the punch.
 

thethinker48

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Ya know, the thing I hate about debates like this is that I never want to sound like any all time great is being diminished- I mean, Foreman, Shavers, Liston, Ali were all big, powerful spectacles to behild. Each one of them an anomaly.

Earnie Shavers has a lot between careers he's ended and peer testimony about his punching power. I believe Tyson does as well and many find his name synonymous with knockout power. I think both have fantastic cases.

What I will say is that speed/power in the right ratio will trump sheer power. Mass x Acceleration = Explosion.

I was watching some Mike Tyson highlights last night, and the guys he fought were all much larger than him.

I actually never realized how fucking fast and agile he was from a bob/weave standpoint of being hard to hit last night. That alone had to be absolutely demoralizing for his opponents to whiff as bad as they did over and over when they kept thinking they had kill shots on him.

Also fair to point out... We never even got to see what would have been the prime of his career due to him going to prison.

Very true

Had Cus lived a few years longer, and Mike didn't part ways with Kevin Rooney. The 90s would've been a Mike Tyson era of dominance
 

thethinker48

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I think the thing about Tyson's power punches is how he could throw a really short punch, not having to wind up much, and still knock a guy out! He'd get in real close and the punch would come from around his waist at best, fist not traveling very far. Still enough power to knock out a guy in round 1. I dont think I've ever seen another guy on this planet do that.

Straight from the hips

Joe Frazier used to throw his left hook the same way

Pivot and generate power from the lower body, while minimizing upper body movement due to close distance to the opponent

It wouldn't work for anybody who lacks the explosiveness that Tyson had. Cus figured this out when Tyson was young and saw him fight.
 

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Straight from the hips

Joe Frazier used to throw his left hook the same way

Pivot and generate power from the lower body, while minimizing upper body movement due to close distance to the opponent

It wouldn't work for anybody who lacks the explosiveness that Tyson had. Cus figured this out when Tyson was young and saw him fight.

I think we all need to stop and think about who we were at 20 years old to really appreciate what Tyson had accomplished by that age. Still years away from both physical and mental peak and was a world champion and baddest motherfucker with hands on the planet.

Even if many had the physical gifts he did at that age, are they man enough to go up against grown ass men in a brutal sport like that?

The GOAT title goes to the one with the accomplishments... And he's still at least in the argument.

As far as over-all raw talent, I personally don't think anyone comes close, and it's been over 30 years since he took the title and we haven't seen anybody even comparable rise up.

In his prime, I personally don't think anyone would have beaten him- not even Muhammad Ali, who I think is the actual GOAT.
 

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Pivot and generate power from the lower body, while minimizing upper body movement due to close distance to the opponent
Yeah, and those punches are the ones you don't see coming and even if you see that he is going to punch, it happens so fast and you cant read the body well so that youre not sure where the punch is going to land.
 

maldorf

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Tyson's wicked uppercut, like how I was talking about those short shots he throws that still have power behind them. Fast. Punches from close in that you don't even see coming.

 

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Tyson's wicked uppercut, like how I was talking about those short shots he throws that still have power behind them. Fast. Punches from close in that you don't even see coming.


I think it's fair to factor that in when debating raw punching power. I believe in comparing apples with apples... I think Holmes testimony bears weight, but did Holmes ever take a FULL force cocked back swing from Tyson like he did Shavers to compare?

I think Holyfields testimony should be taken with a grain of salt, not that he wasn't being truthful, but because Mike Tyson was washed up by that point. He was just never the same fighter he was before he got locked up.

Tape doesn't lie, Tyson just didn't show the same speed, power and ferocity on film in his fights during his comeback that he did before getting locked up.

It's actually very impressive to think that he was able to legitimately compete for the undisputed champ while being "washed up".
 

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