My friends "perfect cycle" inputs please..

Dave_19 · Aug 30, 2003

well this is quote from the book bottom line bodybuilding by nelson montana, this is exactly how hes cycling to the que his gear the layout that is suggested for 3 weeks on 3 weeks off he says "for as long as it takes" does anyone support this, think you could get to Mr. O condition with these pitiful dosages of gear? I know he doesnt state anythign about becoming a monster on it but he doesnt say anything about how big u can potentially get peroid.... so what do u guys think go ahead and read the theroy.

"Is it possible? Can the perfect cycle be constructed? There are lots of people who think so. Unfortunately, what they consider perfect may not concur with your definition. To some, a successful cycle is one which produces the most noticeable immediate gains.
They'll swear up and down how great it works, regardless of the side effects, health risks or inability to maintain the gains. But instant gratification is not the name of the game
here. To me, a "perfect" cycle (or one as close to perfect as possible) is one that will contain 3 specifications.

One: It will produce the most gains with the least amount of suppression.
Two: It will be virtually impossible to cause gyno.
Three: The gains will be as permanent as possible.
If that's your idea of a good cycle, this is for you.
(Note: I must preface this report by saying that this cycle is not designed to be cost
effective. If you want the best, be prepared to pay for it. Then again, I could never
understand why someone would want to cut corners when it comes to something as
serious as this. Also, there's a reason for these choices, especially the use of Primobolan.
Yes, I know it's hard to get and it's expensive and it's often counterfeited, but that is
irrelevant to the matter at hand. Primobolan is the safest, most risk-free steroid and it
produces very solid gains. Please don't e-mail and ask if you can substitute Fina or Deca
or Cypionate for the Primo. It's there for a reason.)

Week One:
25 mgs of D-bol every day. Spread out to 4 daily doses. (Note: If you are extremely
sensitive to gyno, use 30mgs of Oxandrolone instead of D-bol).
Day 1: Sustanon 250.
Day 2: 100mgs Primo
Day 3: 100 mgs Primo.
Day 5: 100 mgs Primo.
Day 7: 100 mgs Primo.

Week Two:
30 mgs of Oxandrolone every day. Same administration as above.
Day 8: 200 mgs Testosterone cypionate or enanthate
Day 10: 100 mgs Primo
Day 12: 100 mgs Primo
Day 14: 100 mgs Primo

Week Three:
20 mgs of oral Winstrol every day. Take last dose of Winstrol no later than 6.00 P.M.
(Note: Ox may be substituted for Winstrol if LDL is a problem.)
Day15: 100 mgs Primo
Day 16: 100 mgs Primo
Day 18: 100 mgs Primo
Day 21: 100 mgs of Primo

For the following week, take one 25 mg Proviron tablet each morning along with 1000
mgs of Avena Sativa 3 times a day.
There it is. Any more will cause too much suppression and you will not have enough
endogenous testosterone to maintain the gains.
Solid muscle. No crash. No gyno. No anti-e's. It's perfect.
Following this cycle, work the entire body just 3 times a week for no more than 45
minutes a session, the next 3 weeks. Sleep at least 8 hours a night. And of course, NO
AEROBICS!!!

Although dosages can be manipulated to a degree, chances are you won't do much better than following this plan exactly. (I strongly urge beginners to use half the recommended
dosages.) You can only hold on to so much muscle at a time and gaining too much more is a waste of time as well as presenting needless risks."

xcelbeyond · Aug 30, 2003

I think cycling programs are just like workout programs - everyone has a better mousetrap! I believe that you need to mix up what you use in your cycles as your body acclimates to the gear - just like your body will eventually acclimate to a workout program. That includes varying the amount of time you're off gear.

The HST program I'm following now is full body workouts, 3x week - but takes about an hour each workout.

xcel

Dave_19 · Aug 30, 2003

xcelbeyond said:
I think cycling programs are just like workout programs - everyone has a better mousetrap! I believe that you need to mix up what you use in your cycles as your body acclimates to the gear - just like your body will eventually acclimate to a workout program. That includes varying the amount of time you're off gear.

The HST program I'm following now is full body workouts, 3x week - but takes about an hour each workout.

xcel

I agree with this...

weight77 · Aug 30, 2003

no

I think it is crap...I believe that your body must get use to the weight you put on to be able to hold it...and i dont think you could get mcuh out of 3 on 3 off...it is so much yo yo....

LATS · Aug 30, 2003

short cycles are really nothing new...before nelson, there were various other "gurus" like brian bachleor (sic) who advised very short cycles but, more often..basically any short lived ester will work as long as it has a half life of never over a couple of days so that recovery cycle can start immediately..do the math..by the end of the year, the user will be on quite a bit of that time. lets say the user only gains a small (couple of pounds) per cycle (we know it can not go on forever) but, by the end of the year the user has gained alot of new tissue..to me , it my be a safer route but, experts like dave palumbo have a completely different theory.. like xcel said, "everyone has a better mouse trap"..in other words they will all catch mice..or gains in this matter.lol

LATS · Aug 30, 2003

i do want to say one more thing that weight77 said..palumbo belives that the weight must be held for long periods of time for the body to get used to the new found tissue...the problem is (and i have great respect for dave palumbo) most weight gains are discovered after the first 8 weeks..after this, you can pump all the roids into your system that you want and that weight will not give way much..in other words are you getting the bang for your buck after a while money and health wise..i have done both long and short cycles and they both work and i seem to lose the same amount of weight each time....i think that 3 weeks is a little short and would maybe opt for the 6 week cycles or 8.....one of the biggest and smartest guys i know who i stay with when i visit california does 6 week cycles of fast ester gear..three weeks of recovery (hcg, nolva ect) another 4 weeks off then starts all over again.. his last cycle was 600 of test suspension a week, 50 mgs winny tabs a day, and tren at 75 eod. he told me that he was doing the next time: 200 eod of test prop, dbol at 25 mgs a day, and insulin at 10 ius after each work out...he has done this for a number of years and always looks great...

MikeS · Aug 30, 2003

The perfect cycle has to be one or the other:

Either safe OR effective. Much like trying to bulk and cut at the same time-you greatly compromise each one by trying to do both.

Short cycles suck unless safety is your main concern. You dont have time to start getting gains, and when you do its time to shut down. As was said, your body need time to recognize new mass as normal, permanent bidyweight/size. Short cycles dont give you that time. Being on permanently with bridging included
(so that the heavy dosing peroids still 'kick' in) as time on is probably most effective for size and strength, but may have permanent or at least long lasting effect on HPTA.
Personally I go moderate/heavy dose 14-16wks and bridge non-aromatizing orals for 6-8wks. You have to do what is right for YOU and your goals and concerns.

Dave_19 · Aug 30, 2003

i run gear like u mike also... btw u guys have some really good points very smart guys here this is the only board i could post this question at and know I could get some good answers..

when it comes to anything advanced question wise i always come here.

weight77 · Aug 30, 2003

Short cycles suck unless safety is your main concern. You dont have time to start getting gains, and when you do its time to shut down. As was said, your body need time to recognize new mass as normal, permanent bidyweight/size. Short cycles dont give you that time.

this is exactly how I feel...and thik this is dead on...

raybravo · Aug 30, 2003

nelson montana would be the last person i'd want to take advice from , i'd rather listen to a dog on the road , he's that illogical and stupid in his reasoning .

MikeS · Aug 30, 2003

From what Ive noticed, all the guys (so-called gurus) like Bill Robberts, Montana, Batchelder are 'on paper' armchair experts. They arent practicing BBers, like Palumbo (who is brilliant IMO) who also factor in real life experience to their ideas.